The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

John Manfreda wrote:Rodgers went thru full workouts today with the first team.
most were confused and disappointed.

He hadn't practiced a game yet, when I posted it. Today was his first practice.

I'm thinking this has something to do with your earlier post and my reply.

Actually he was in the 11 on 11 drills yesterday as well as all other drills(LA and Noble were limited) if that's what you mean, if what you ment was he hasn't played in a pre-season game yet then you are correct.

SkinsLaVar wrote:We needed Mike Williams, but we needed a corner even more.

If we had picked up Williams, our offense would improve a lot in the redzone situations. Afterall, Williams is a 6'5 target, not very hard to miss.

But then again, on defense, we were a car missing a wheel. Offenses would pick us apart and we would give up way too many points, like you have seen in the preseason game with Ade Jimoh shmo playing corner.

Carlos Rogers is a top CB, he is the new wheel. Now we have a car with all 4 of it's wheels. Some shiny rims would be nice, but you have to have all 4 wheels first...in order to go forward.

Yes, during draft-day I was mightly disappointed we didn't take Williams, we were all suprised he slid so far, but many teams needed corners and remember he sat out a year. In Hindsight we did the right thing, locked down our defense. Seems we don't need great WR's as much as we need better QB play, get Moss, Pattten and guys the ball and they will make plays.

Now Concerning MR. Campbell, yes we did give up a lot to bring him in and QB was not our most pressing need in terms of the 05-06 season. I was pissed at first too, but now J.Cam is lookin' like a half decent deal. There is a concept in Finance called, TVM (Time Value of Money) Meaning money/Campbell now is better then money/Campbell next year, the year allows us to develop the QB oppose to having a J. CAM type player next year a Rookie. Hopefully J. Cam's value appreciates quicker than the arm and leg we paid. So far so good, Ramsey' you are a 4th yr Vet, shape up or ship out.

While Gibbs does not place as much importance on the younger players as some he will only select those that he thinks will fit his scheme, his team and the other players here. He does not select players or "sign" players that do not fit in with what he perceives to be a football player and a team oriented player at that.

That is why Gibbs does not get TO type players or Randy Moss - they are not worth it! Maybe Mike Williams will prove to be a great WR but he will not get that opportunity with Joe. Must not have looked good to him or he would have drafted him,

I think from what little we have seen that both these guys are the "type" of players that Joe likes. I think they will both be very good NFL players.



Now, we need Mark to show why Gibbs wanted him here because last year was not the sort of year anybody expected.

SkinsJock wrote:While Gibbs does not place as much importance on the younger players as some he will only select those that he thinks will fit his scheme, his team and the other players here. He does not select players or "sign" players that do not fit in with what he perceives to be a football player and a team oriented player at that.

That is why Gibbs does not get TO type players or Randy Moss - they are not worth it! Maybe Mike Williams will prove to be a great WR but he will not get that opportunity with Joe. Must not have looked good to him or he would have drafted him,

I think from what little we have seen that both these guys are the "type" of players that Joe likes. I think they will both be very good NFL players.



Now, we need Mark to show why Gibbs wanted him here because last year was not the sort of year anybody expected.

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Mike Williams is not a thug. He has never got in any trouble and has never showed an attitude. Do not compare him to TO or Randy Moss. That is ridiculous.

Mike Williams might not be a thug, but it is he a team-player? Leaving USC that early to seek individual gain could cast some doubt in coaches' minds. I think that is the issue here. Only time will tell...

Coachkyle wrote:Mike Williams might not be a thug, but it is he a team-player? Leaving USC that early to seek individual gain could cast some doubt in coaches' minds. I think that is the issue here. Only time will tell...

X1000

C'mon now, thats the weakest argument ever. There are too many guys to count that leave college early to go into the pros. How many guys actually wait to their senior year to go into the NFL? According to you anyone who doesn't stay their full 4 years aren't team players?

Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.

Coachkyle wrote:Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.

So what negative thing have you heard about Mike? I haven't heard anything? I never saw him suing the NFL or speaking badly of the league? He tried to get back into college but he wasnt allowed to. He was simply applying for a job in the NFL which at the time was accessible to him.

So what negative thing have you heard about Mike?[quote]

Not a lot of negatives...very talented player, only part that concerned me was the highlighted part---

"Negatives � Despite his size and strength, he does not show aggression when asked to block (will position and get in the way, but will not stalk) � Strong runner, but sometimes takes time to get back to speed after the catch � More of a soft angle cutter in the short area � Could snap off and accelerate out of his breaks a little better at times but looks pretty polished in his pattern running � Not a burner and doesn't show a great gear of acceleration, but he gets behind defenses with a strong vertical push and positions himself well on the deep ball � In the short area, he is more of soft angle cutter � Has had weight issues in the past and could eventually grow into a tight end � Did not have any issues with teammates, but did not exactly have a team-first work ethic � Does not always utilize double moves in the zone and needs to be more alert of coverage assignments in this area."
http://cbs.sportsline.com/nfl/players/draft/486306

I'd be somewhat concerned with him being away from the game a year. This seems like a lot of negative but it isn't, other 1st rounders had similar analysis...

Mike Williams will be a fantastic reciever, I have no doubt. But, it just so happens that Gibbs doesn't beleive that getting him is what the team needed right now. As SkinsJock said, Joe must have seen something in him that he didn't think was right for this team. That's not a knock against Mike Williams, it's just a testament to the fact that the Redskins plan on using an offense that's not going to require the Tall, big, WR that Williams is. Instead, he opted to go for speed in Moss and Patten. In any event, I don't beleive you can take anything away from Mike Williams. Very few people, if any, doubt his talent. Maybe some people had issue with him being out of team play for a year, but he obviously kept in shape and stayed focused.

If we'd have resigned "core Redskin" Fred Smoot in the first place, we could have had Mike Williams and still had our CB...

I'm sorry about "grouping" TO with Mike Williams and I agree with JP in that this guy could be a very good even great WR only time will tell. I also echo JP's sentiment in that there will be a lot of great players in the NFL during Gibb's present tenure but, mostly, these players (who might have been "available") will be passed on by Joe because he did not feel they would be good for our team. This is not a knock on these guys it's just that Joe likes certain types and if he has a choice he will pick those guys.

Fred (& AP) were offered fair contracts based on what was being paid to others. We did not let them go they chose to go somewhere else over playing here. We do not want these types on this team or more importantly Greg and Joe do not want these types of players on this team.

IMO I'm glad that they decided to go because I think they will look back and say I could have been a Redskin. I read (now we all know how unreliable the media is) that AP is really glad to be a giant and I wish him well but I think that was a mistake and (while we will miss him) he knows he took the money over the team. To say (or imply) he was not appreciated is BS!

If we still had Smoot I'm not sure that Joe thought that Mike fit with this team - sorry!

Coachkyle wrote:Mike Williams might not be a thug, but it is he a team-player? Leaving USC that early to seek individual gain could cast some doubt in coaches' minds. I think that is the issue here. Only time will tell...

No its not, when u can be a top ten pick, u leave he had everything to loose by staying. He could have gotten hurt, bad year, it goes on forever. Was Magic Johnson a selfish player because he left early? No, by the way he went to school on his year off.

Coachkyle wrote:Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.

Mike Williams did not fight the rule. A new rule was stated and he highered an agent to come out. Than they changed the rule. He abided by the rules.

John Manfreda wrote:

Coachkyle wrote:Nope, I only single out guys that have the audacity to fight the NFL rule and come out as sophmores. The vast majority of these guys are immature either in their personal lives or in their gameplay. Obviously that varies by individual. Very few NBA players make it straight out of high school. MLB players at least have the minors to grow up in. I don't drool over talent to the point where I totally disregard character (like many on this board do); neither does Joe Gibbs.

Mike Williams did not fight the rule. A new rule was stated and he highered an agent to come out. Than they changed the rule. He abided by the rules.

Slow Moe challenged the MFL and a judge ruled in his favor.
Williams saw his chance at a big payday and joined Clarett.
A appeals court overturned the first Judge's ruling and that left them out of the Draft. Had Williams not did it for the coin he wouldn't have hired a agent, and would have been able to return to school

How many of us would trade Carlos for Williams right now? I count two because I'm fat.

I wouldn't trade for him even though I want him here. Carlos is a beast and fits perfectly into this defense.

If we could have done an even swap during draft day I would have been all for it.

Carlos is a part of this team and is a great guy, getting Williams wouldnt be worth breaking up the team chemistry. There will be other good WR's.

I don't know our run D is amazing, but our secondary feels suspect, maybe because Carolina torch us, Delome has his way with us, but we did have a lot of injuries that game. Carlos is the better team player, now our D is on lock down without many holes.

Our WR core is good enough, we just need a QB to get them the ball, With Farve, McNabb or another top QB the Skin are a Super bowl contender.
STOP SUCKING RAMSEY !!!

We still need to grasp the fact that a super QB (OR superstar players) does not necessarily mean you "win". We have been all through this before. Brady has been a big success because he plays well with the players on his team but there are a bunch (more than 5) of QBs who are "better" QBs. We just need Patrick to execute with the players we have and we need to have a scheme that suits these players.

We were an atrocious team the last few years and it will be a little longer till we are very good. We will be fine this year and we will be even better next.

Its not about the players its about the team. Our D was great without stars and our offense will be good without stars. Gibbs and Greg are all about our players playing well together.

I am so looking forward to more progress tomorrow night and next week and even more hopeful of NO injuries. We seem to be coming together well in all aspects and these next 2 weeks are going to set the tone for 9/11.





By the way, how many SBs did Dan Marino win? He was a decent QB. Joe won 3 with different QBs. I think he knows how to get there, with whoever, and, how to win it all!

A Brady type QB will take us to the big game, but a very good or superstar QB can assure a SB win, with the team we have now. Ram's is not good enough to make it to the 2nd round and hardly the NFC Championsip. I'll believe it when I see it. Been burned by the Skin too many times since I was 9 years old.

SkinsJock wrote:Fred (& AP) were offered fair contracts based on what was being paid to others.

Yeah, the contract they offered Smoot was even a little better than what Shawn Springs had just gotten and Springs is definately the better CB. It would have been silly to pay more for a guy who isn't as good.