The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

8 and 8, hopefully 9 -7 Who knows.

Lets get this season started.

JPM36 wrote:I have us going 4-2 in the NFC East, which I think is very optimistic.

2002 was the first year the NFL had the 8 divisions with 4 teams each format, and the Redskins have been nothing short of awful in division play since.

2002: 1-5; swept by Philly, swept by NY Giants, split with Dallas

2003: 1-5; swept by Philly, swept by Dallas, split with NY Giants

2004: 1-5; swept by Philly, swept by Dallas, split with NY Giants

During that time Philly has been to the playoffs all three seasons and Dallas and the Giants have been once each. We have not. There is no question that since the switch to the 4 team division we have been the worst team in the group. Look no further than a 3-15 division record. That's pathetic. Turning that number around in 2005 is the key to making it to the postseason. And I think Coach Gibbs is going to do it.

I'll stipulate to our record being the worst over the last three years, but will never admit to being the worst team in the division. Last year we should have swept the Giants and the Pies, and split with Philly. If we eliminate the mistakes that beat ourselves, we can be a very serious contender this year.

JPM36 wrote:Also, those numbers you have for points given up last year seem way too high. I thought the Skins gave up more like 300 points last season. And there's no way any NFL team would give up over 900 points in a single season. You might want to check on those numbers again.

When you take out TDs on trunovers and kick returns the 'Skins gave up 223 pts which was tied for lowest in the league with the Steelers. The Eagles fans all think their D gave up less points than ours but they gave up 253. The Eagles D sucks!

September 11 vs. Bears W
September 19 @ Cowboys L
October 2 vs. Seahawks W
October 9 @ Broncos L
October 16 @ Chiefs W
October 23 vs. 49ers W
October 30 @ Giants L
November 6 vs. Eagles L
November 13 @ Buccaneers W
November 20 vs. Raiders W
November 27 vs. Chargers L
December 4 @ Rams W
December 11 @ Cardinals W
December 18 vs. Cowboys W
December 24 vs. Giants W
January 1 @ Eagles L

Record: 10-6

Winning is always good... winning against Dallas is always great. Out of all the teams, the cowboys are the one that I pray will go winless through the whole season.

this is my conservative, cautious breakdown. i have some losses down that probably shouldn't be there, but you know how it is during the season, you always end up losing a few you shouldn't lose.

6 games vs NFC East: 3-3
4 games vs NFC West: 3-1
4 games vs AFC West: 2-2
1 game vs the Bears: win
1 game vs the Bucs: win

TOTAL: 10-6

even though i have us 2-2 against the AFC west, honestly i am not the slightest bit afraid of them. who cares how good the offenses are? our defense will keep it close. the two most vaunted offenses there this year are the chiefs and raiders, both of whom will again have crappy defenses. we will run all over them. IS ANYONE HERE HONESTLY AFRAID OF NORV TURNER???

then there is the broncos, who i can't imagine why people are saying we won't beat. our secondary can easily handle their WRs and plummer. plummer makes a lot of stupid decisions and GW's blitzes will capitalize on that. sure, they are a great running team, but we are the best run-defense team in the league! and their defense is also mediocre at best. we are simply a better team.

the only one of the lot i worry about is the chargers-- not because i think they are great, but because fate has a way of biting us in the butt. so i can just imagine marty schittenheimer, the single most incompetent coach in the NFL, beating the redskins he got fired from and the media having a field day with it.

we've never had any trouble with the seahawks. as for the cardinals, we are going to pressure kurt warner into some bad turnovers, and even if their D is improved it probably won't be great. the rams are always a wild-card of sorts. it will probably be an easy win but you never know when that offense might get cranking. the 49ers are an "NFL JV" team.

the bears suck. the bucs are still mediocre.

i think we can reasonably expect somewhere between 9-7 and 11-5.

I like the "breakdown" by dcd!

This is my take from the same perspective -

6 games vs NFC East: 3 possibly 4 wins
4 games vs NFC West: 2 possibly 3 wins
4 games vs AFC West: 2 possibly 3 wins
1 game vs the Bears: win
1 game vs the Bucs: win

I do not feel bad in thinking we will be able to win at least 9 and 10 should not be a stretch. Now 11 or 12 is maybe hoping for some luck but it is doable!



Now only 12 days away!

[quote="hkHog"][quote="JPM36"]Also, those numbers you have for points given up last year seem way too high. I thought the Skins gave up more like 300 points last season. And there's no way any NFL team would give up over 900 points in a single season. You might want to check on those numbers again.[/quote]

When you take out TDs on trunovers and kick returns the 'Skins gave up 223 pts which was tied for lowest in the league with the Steelers. The Eagles fans all think their D gave up less points than ours but they gave up 253. The Eagles D sucks![/quote]

Yeah, the Eagles D sucks! Get a clue. How many points did we give up last year? 261. The Eagles gave up 260. BUT, they played their scrubs the last two weeks when they gave up FIFTY EIGHT points.

Please, let's be honest here. I'd kill for Philthy's defense to be the Skins'. I'd kill to have their offense too. And their special teams.



wonker

say what you want about philly's offense, but you were just shown irrefutable statistical proof that the redskins defense gave up significantly LESS points than philly's. you are going by TOTAL points allowed, not points allowed by DEFENSE. tell me, how is the defense supposed to help stop a fumble/INT returned for a TD?

10 wins - 6 loses are realistic.

wonker wrote:Please, let's be honest here. I'd kill for Philthy's defense to be the Skins'. I'd kill to have their offense too. And their special teams.

You left the coaching staff and the front office.

Let's be REALLY honest here. Are you wearing green and white?

wonker wrote:..the Eagles D sucks!

you got that part right!

wonker wrote:.. let's be honest here. I'd kill for Philthy's defense to be the Skins'. I'd kill to have their offense too. And their special teams.

You are kidding, right?

You really aught to use a smiley face when you're kidding! They are not that good anymore and we do not need anybody from that unit.

Back on topic! - I still think we are not looking as bad as "projected" and I'll stay with my estimate of 9 or 10 wins this year - the first W is this week!

wonker wrote:

hkHog wrote:

JPM36 wrote:Also, those numbers you have for points given up last year seem way too high. I thought the Skins gave up more like 300 points last season. And there's no way any NFL team would give up over 900 points in a single season. You might want to check on those numbers again.

When you take out TDs on trunovers and kick returns the 'Skins gave up 223 pts which was tied for lowest in the league with the Steelers. The Eagles fans all think their D gave up less points than ours but they gave up 253. The Eagles D sucks!

Yeah, the Eagles D sucks! Get a clue. How many points did we give up last year? 261. The Eagles gave up 260. BUT, they played their scrubs the last two weeks when they gave up FIFTY EIGHT points.

Please, let's be honest here. I'd kill for Philthy's defense to be the Skins'. I'd kill to have their offense too. And their special teams.



wonker

Wonker, your stats aren't correct.

As a TEAM the 'Skins actually gave up 265 points, not 261 as you wrote. However, we gave up six TDs on special teams or offense (one punt return, one kick return, one int, and three fumbles). Therefore, our defense gave up 223 points!!!

Now, you are correct when you say the Eagles as a team gave up 260 points. However, they only gave up 1 TD on special teams and offense on an int. So, their defense actually gave up 253 points!!!

OK, so now lets address the whole playing scrubs issue. Alright, through 14 weeks the Philly D gave up an average of 14.42 points a game. So, I'm going to be really nice and say that they gave up 14 per game for the last two. So rather than giving up 58, they gave up 28, 30 points less than the 253 they actually conceded. In that scenario, they still end up conceding 223 points on defense, exactly the same as the 'Skins! And here I am being nice, too.

However, we had the best rushing D in the NFL by a long shot (3.1 yds/carry, second best was 3.6, Philly gave up 4.3!!!!!), we held teams to a lower completion percentage despite their Pro Bowl secondary (57.1% compared to 60.7%), we gave up less passing yards per game (186.1 to 200.8 ), we gave up less runs of 20+ yards and less passes of 20+ yards, as well, and we gave up less rushing and less passing yards than they did too. Basically, in every concievable way our defense was better than theirs!

Please, look at the FACTS above and tell me if I still need to "get a clue", the FACT of the matter is that our defense was better! I agree their offense and special teams were better than ours but their defense certainly wasn't!

I don't see how anyone can predict what the Skins will do this year. Right now, they are a "6-10" team with an unproven QB. That's not exactly a recipe for success. Which is why the "media" is picking the Skins to do so poorly. While I'm hopeful that Ramsey steps it up, and that the team assumes the identity of a "winner," right now all I can do is expect the same old, same old.

This is certain: if the Skins can't convincingly beat a rookie QB this week, they have no hope of topping any of their NFC East foes.

That said, game on!

die cowboys die wrote:the only one of the lot i worry about is the chargers-- not because i think they are great, but because fate has a way of biting us in the butt. so i can just imagine marty schittenheimer, the single most incompetent coach in the NFL, beating the redskins he got fired from and the media having a field day with it.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Not the fate part, but the Marty part. The Danny fired Marty, because he would not give up the total control he had gotten contractually the year before. Marty is a good coach. He had us going in the right direction when the Danny started the Spurrier experiment. Don't get me wrong, I couldn't be happier the way the Spurrier experiment ultimately ended (us getting Joe back), but Marty would have had us in contention within another year.

hk,

I apologize for going overboard. I didn't mean to imply that our defense was awful, nor that the Eagles defense was stellar. I was just taking issue with the comment that the Eagles Defense Sucks. Which was the sentiment of the post I was responding to.

It's a major issue I have. It's fine to have optimism as a fan, but too many people on this board seem to be blind to the fact that we're in a division with a real powerhouse, Philthy.



wonker

hkHog wrote:

wonker wrote:

hkHog wrote:

JPM36 wrote:Also, those numbers you have for points given up last year seem way too high. I thought the Skins gave up more like 300 points last season. And there's no way any NFL team would give up over 900 points in a single season. You might want to check on those numbers again.

When you take out TDs on trunovers and kick returns the 'Skins gave up 223 pts which was tied for lowest in the league with the Steelers. The Eagles fans all think their D gave up less points than ours but they gave up 253. The Eagles D sucks!

Yeah, the Eagles D sucks! Get a clue. How many points did we give up last year? 261. The Eagles gave up 260. BUT, they played their scrubs the last two weeks when they gave up FIFTY EIGHT points.

Please, let's be honest here. I'd kill for Philthy's defense to be the Skins'. I'd kill to have their offense too. And their special teams.



wonker

Wonker, your stats aren't correct.

As a TEAM the 'Skins actually gave up 265 points, not 261 as you wrote. However, we gave up six TDs on special teams or offense (one punt return, one kick return, one int, and three fumbles). Therefore, our defense gave up 223 points!!!

Now, you are correct when you say the Eagles as a team gave up 260 points. However, they only gave up 1 TD on special teams and offense on an int. So, their defense actually gave up 253 points!!!

OK, so now lets address the whole playing scrubs issue. Alright, through 14 weeks the Philly D gave up an average of 14.42 points a game. So, I'm going to be really nice and say that they gave up 14 per game for the last two. So rather than giving up 58, they gave up 28, 30 points less than the 253 they actually conceded. In that scenario, they still end up conceding 223 points on defense, exactly the same as the 'Skins! And here I am being nice, too.

However, we had the best rushing D in the NFL by a long shot (3.1 yds/carry, second best was 3.6, Philly gave up 4.3!!!!!), we held teams to a lower completion percentage despite their Pro Bowl secondary (57.1% compared to 60.7%), we gave up less passing yards per game (186.1 to 200.8 ), we gave up less runs of 20+ yards and less passes of 20+ yards, as well, and we gave up less rushing and less passing yards than they did too. Basically, in every concievable way our defense was better than theirs!

Please, look at the FACTS above and tell me if I still need to "get a clue", the FACT of the matter is that our defense was better! I agree their offense and special teams were better than ours but their defense certainly wasn't!

wonker wrote:hk,

I apologize for going overboard. I didn't mean to imply that our defense was awful, nor that the Eagles defense was stellar. I was just taking issue with the comment that the Eagles Defense Sucks. Which was the sentiment of the post I was responding to.

It's a major issue I have. It's fine to have optimism as a fan, but too many people on this board seem to be blind to the fact that we're in a division with a real powerhouse, Philthy.



wonker

We aren't blind to the fact that the Iggle are in OUR division. We also aren't blind to the fact that our D was better than any D in the NFC last year.
If we can't be optimistic about that without you having a major issue with it, then we need to promote you issue to Brig. General because our defense will be better this year and ypu'll be hearing it.

No problem man, I understand what you were getting at. I don't think you went overboard at all.

I agree with what you say, I wasn't really being serious when I said they sucked anyway. They are certainly one of the better defenses in the league and they played particularly well at the end of the year and in the playoffs. My comment about them sucking was just off the cuff and I was mainly responding to the way that I still believe that the 'Skins D is not given its due respect. Statistically, I believe it was the best in almost every way.

The Eagles are certainly the team that everyone in the NFC is trying to catch. It was a silly thing for me to say in the first place because they certainly don't suck (but they aren't as good as we are !)

hkHog wrote:..The Eagles are certainly the team that everyone in the NFC is trying to catch. because they certainly don't suck (but they aren't as good as we are !)

I do not like to "go back" so to speak and rarely use the "you are only as good as your record" BS because I think you should judge teams on what you see on the field and not totally on wins and losses. I understand that the record was 6-10 but IMO we were a lot worse a team (pre 2004) than even we (most of us are "homers"!) thought we were and I think Joe and Greg have done a good job of getting us (and themselves) back on the track to being a very good team again.

I will say that I thought we showed a lot of potential and heart last year and I especially liked how competitive we were against Pittsburgh and the iggles.
Now, everybody is "better" this year but IMO we are going to be a better team than last year and will be a lot more competitive than we were last year - this might even include a 5-1 NFC East record and that would be special.