Coles Deal Could Cost Skins (cont)

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:46 pm

I said the day that trade went down that Ramsey was the better QB and Brunell was a mistake.

But I was wrong until Week 8 or 9 :oops:

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:10 pm

skinsfan33 wrote:
Redskins Rule wrote:How can you guys hate this trade?

We dumped a reciever that couldn't be a number one reciever no more, because of his injury. He wasn't happy here. He was a possible cancer.

We got someone for very cheap this season, who had a good year last year. Well, considering he had quincy carter and Pennington (with a torn rotator cuff) throwing him the ball for half of the season.

Defenses will have to respect the deep pass now.

VALUE!!! Short end was stuck in us!

Coles had to go dude. Yes, he did play hard last season, but he was a possible cancer on our team. We had to get rid of him. We couldn't just let him go either. We had to get something in return. The Jets gave us the best deal that we could get. We had to take it.

If this 'I'm unhappy thing' happened last year then I would have to agree with you on the value thing. I would have to agree with you because Coles was a number one reciever that year. This year he has fallen to a number two reciever, because of his injury.

I think this trade benefits both teams. We get rid of someone, the only one on our team that doesn't like Coach Gibbs. And get someone that had a great season two years ago and a good season last year....considering who he had throwing the ball to him. The Jets get their buddy Coles back.

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 8:35 pm

Redskins Rule wrote:
We got someone for very cheap this season, who had a good year last year. Well, considering he had quincy carter and Pennington (with a torn rotator cuff) throwing him the ball for half of the season.

FYI, Pennington never had a strong arm to begin with and a torn rotator cuff is not gonna affect that guy's accuracy, just his (already weak) velocity.

Carter's got a cannon which is more suited to a guy like Moss. Of course, Quincy's not a great fit unless you throw deep 10+ times a game.

redskindave · Post by **redskindave** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:15 pm

Awesome, I love this trade!

skinsfan#33 · Post by **skinsfan#33** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:24 pm

Redskins Rule wrote:
skinsfan33 wrote:
Redskins Rule wrote:How can you guys hate this trade?

We dumped a reciever that couldn't be a number one reciever no more, because of his injury. He wasn't happy here. He was a possible cancer.

We got someone for very cheap this season, who had a good year last year. Well, considering he had quincy carter and Pennington (with a torn rotator cuff) throwing him the ball for half of the season.

Defenses will have to respect the deep pass now.

VALUE!!! Short end was stuck in us!

Coles had to go dude. Yes, he did play hard last season, but he was a possible cancer on our team. We had to get rid of him. We couldn't just let him go either. We had to get something in return. The Jets gave us the best deal that we could get. We had to take it.

If this 'I'm unhappy thing' happened last year then I would have to agree with you on the value thing. I would have to agree with you because Coles was a number one reciever that year. This year he has fallen to a number two reciever, because of his injury.

I think this trade benefits both teams. We get rid of someone, the only one on our team that doesn't like Coach Gibbs. And get someone that had a great season two years ago and a good season last year....considering who he had throwing the ball to him. The Jets get their buddy Coles back.

Coles has been are #1 receiver for both years he was here, and there are MAYBE 10 better receivers in the league (bad toe and all). He will catch atleast 20 more balls than Moss next year.

redskincity · Post by **redskincity** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 9:31 pm

I have been lying, I love this trade.

Its funny how its all coming together.

We have three speedy receivers counting Jacobs and I think we will be very pleased with the results.

Welcome Moss and Patten.

http://www.santanamoss.org/bio.html

HTTR

Warmother · Post by **Warmother** » Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:09 pm

While I'm not thrilled that the Skin's took a big cap hit. I am happy we got something for Coles. Moss can be a nice player for the Redskins.

1fan4ramsey · Post by **1fan4ramsey** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:02 am

Warmother wrote:While I'm not thrilled that the Skin's took a big cap hit. I am happy we got something for Coles. Moss can be a nice player for the Redskins.

This is what's wrong with this deal:

The trade was costly for the Redskins, who must absorb a salary cap hit of roughly $9 million to jettison Coles, although the actual cost will be about $6 million since Coles' salary and bonus allocation was scheduled to count about $3 million against the cap this season. The Redskins created cap room this past week by restructuring left tackle Chris Samuels' contract, but most of that space is now gone, and cornerback Fred Smoot remains unsigned. :puke:

we'll never learn, or should I say Snyder will never learn.

BringThePain! · Post by **BringThePain!** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:10 am

I think it would be better to get rid of a guy who was becoming a disturbance in the locker and who was trying to taint the kind of team philosophy that Gibbs is trying to build.. and get something good in return for him... than keep him around...

eating that cap space stinks... but i'll take it to save team unity...

Smoots a wait and see project... there's still a chance... small... but a chance is a chance.

andyjens89 · Post by **andyjens89** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:12 am

I just hope Moss can help us get to at least .500

C'fieldSkin · Post by **C'fieldSkin** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:34 am

Taking the hit this year is actually going to be a good thing in the long run, because next year is supposed the bad year for the cap. This should help out then.

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:03 am

skinsfan#33 wrote:Coles...will catch at least 20 more balls than Moss next year.

Maybe...but he better catch more if he wants to exceed Moss' production: Coles averaged 10 yards per catch while Moss averaged 19...

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:04 am

Wysocki wrote:
skinsfan#33 wrote:Coles...will catch at least 20 more balls than Moss next year.

Maybe...but he better catch more if he wants to exceed Moss' production: Coles averaged 10 yards per catch while Moss averaged 19...

It kinda helps when all Moss ran were deep routes.

Redskins Rule · Post by **Redskins Rule** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:21 am

Yes it does help Primetime...which is one reason why I like this trade. There won't be even half as many 8 or 9 man fronts next year as there were this past season. We have two very fast recievers who are proven to spread the field. I think Portis will average 5.3 yards a carry this coming season.

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:27 am

Redskins Rule wrote:Yes it does help Primetime...which is one reason why I like this trade. There won't be even half as many 8 or 9 man fronts next year as there were this past season. We have two very fast recievers who are proven to spread the field. I think Portis will average 5.3 yards a carry this coming season.

Not knocking it, but wasn't that the idea when you signed Portis last year? And Coles the year before that?

Basically, I'm saying that it's a good plan...doesn't always work out that way though.

I know I sound like a broken record, but I look at Santana Moss and I see Joey Galloway. So much potential but no <ahem> marbles.

Plus he had Curtis Martin in his backfield his entire career, and up until this year no one took him serious as a main threat other than the occasional bomb....like Galloway.

Not saying it will happen like that, but I think you guys definitely could have worked something out with Coles and would have been better off with him. Coles with a bad toe still scares me more than Moss.

Wysocki · Post by **Wysocki** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:35 am

Primetime42 wrote:Not saying it will happen like that, but I think you guys definitely could have worked something out with Coles and would have been better off with him. Coles with a bad toe still scares me more than Moss.

I know, I know...but we've got to play the cards we were dealt, and no manner of bluffing could have drawn some team into sweetening the pot (I've been watching too much poker)...

Primetime42 · Post by **Primetime42** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:40 am

Wysocki wrote:
Primetime42 wrote:Not saying it will happen like that, but I think you guys definitely could have worked something out with Coles and would have been better off with him. Coles with a bad toe still scares me more than Moss.

I know, I know...but we've got to play the cards we were dealt, and no manner of bluffing could have drawn some team into sweetening the pot (I've been watching too much poker)...

I think we all have...

But you're right in that sense. If only Coles wasn't actin' like a little part of the female anatomy, this wouldn't be an issue.

SirSmizzy · Post by **SirSmizzy** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:48 am

Primetime42 wrote:
Wysocki wrote:
Primetime42 wrote:Not saying it will happen like that, but I think you guys definitely could have worked something out with Coles and would have been better off with him. Coles with a bad toe still scares me more than Moss.

I know, I know...but we've got to play the cards we were dealt, and no manner of bluffing could have drawn some team into sweetening the pot (I've been watching too much poker)...
I think we all have...

But you're right in that sense. If only Coles wasn't actin' like a little part of the female anatomy, this wouldn't be an issue.

General Failure · Post by **General Failure** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:50 am

I would have considered him an even swap for Freddie Mitchell.

Smithian · Post by **Smithian** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:57 am

No more "Fun and Gun" in DC...

With Moss at #1 and Patten at #2, say hello to the "Orgi and Gun" offense.

I am happy with those guys but there's a part of me that will miss seeing Coles slanting hard across the field from the outside, leaving some confused defender burned, allowing him to blast untouched across the face of the safety before kicking in the warp engines and vanishing downfield before he is tackled because his warp burns out immediately with the toe. :oops:

oafusp · Post by **oafusp** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 12:52 pm

I think this trade was horrible. Moss is a decent player, as is Coles with a broken toe.

What bothers me is that the Redskins already gave the Jets a 1st round pick, and now the Skins have to eat $9 million from the bonus Coles got.

At the end of the day it comes down to this:

Redskins receive: Santana Moss *and have to dish out more money for Moss's extension)

Jets receive: Coles (with majority of bonus already paid), Redskins 1st round pick which was used to select DT Dewayne Robertson who will be an anchor on their line for years.

Why didn't the Redskins make the Jets give Moss an extension and pay his bonus like the Skins had to do with Coles. Then both teams would be paying bonuses for players no longer on their roster....which would be fair. But, you can't forget the Jets got our 1st round pick in 2003 too. Uggh! We will be paying the bonuses of 2 WR's but only 1 WR is on the team!
And we lost a 1st round pick that could have been young stud going into his 3rd year of his young NFL career.

Bottom line: REDSKINS GOT HOSED ON THIS TRADE
(and using the excuse, "at least we got something...or, he was going to leave anyway"...is unacceptable.)

Plain and simple...the Skins should have got more...either another player or a draft pick.

PS - Is this the largest thread in TheHogs.net history?

funbunchfever · Post by **funbunchfever** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 1:58 pm

I often hear that that the skins will have cap issues in 2006. This trade must help the 2006 cap situation.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:05 pm

The trade wiped out $6.8 million of next year's Cap

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:10 pm

If LC fails his physical with the Jets can the Skins use these results to put him on the PUP list :?:

fredp45 · Post by **fredp45** » Sun Mar 06, 2005 2:26 pm

oafusp --

I hear ya, when you look at the overall situation, we got screwed...however, you can't look back at the #1 pick we gave up for Coles. At this point, that's over with. What you didn't factor in is the production Coles gave us while he was here...that has value, even though it's past value,

Looking at the situation now...we had a #1 WR with an injury that he wouldn't fix and was in essence, a #2 WR. He apparently didn't like the Skins...and wanted out. Gibbs said that he didn't want anyone on the team who didn't want to be here. Gibbs had to eat those words or deal with Coles.

I'm thinking Coles is the type of guy who feels the need to be the big guy on campus -- with Taylor, Portis, Arrington, etc...he was one of a bunch of big name guys...He wasn't the stud player on the team. On the Jets, who do they have that will take the light off him? Pennington & Martin are both low key guys who will let Coles take the PR... Abraham is not high on the totem pole these days after not playing late in the year. Taylor, Arrington, Portis love and push for the lights... Could that be it?

The real question is -- What should we have done:

1) Taken Coles up on the offer of dropping the 5 mil bonus and cut him lose? We'd only have a 4 mil cap hit in 05 but get nothing for him. But, we can use that 5 mil to sign Burress, Mason (he was still available) or whomever; or
2) do what we did?

I don't know enough about Moss to decide if what we did was the right thing to do. I sure do hope Moss is good!! I hear he's really really fast. Maybe we need a guy like that for Ramsey. A guy that will be open quickly so Ramsey doesn't hold the ball so long...

I trust Gibbs -- I lived in DC during his first tenure there -- he's the best...and a great man... Win or lose, he's a guy that I'd like my son to look up to. Let's give him this -- he's smart, he's a winner, and he appears to have a plan...what more do we want?

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Coles Deal Could Cost Skins (cont)

salary cap impact of the trade