The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Moss was used too much like a possesion WR IMHO. JC couldn't throw a hook route without making Moss climb everest to snag it out of the air.

And let's not act as if JC can throw a slant without it being behind the WR and/or staring the WR down the entire time as he hesitates the get ball out before the defender closes in.

JC was Moss's biggest problem.

welch wrote:A great trade. Hail to Redskins!!!

McNab is a fine fine super-fine QB, as we used to say back with Nighthawk Bob Terry and Soulfinger Fred Corey. (A tip of the hat to anyone who remembers, and CT is not allowed to guess. The station was????)

In fact, I think it's time to try a little tenderness with this Redskin management. Try try try a little tenderness yes yes, oh yes.

We have a real HC again, this one remembers being an assistant that evening when a Joe Gibbs team started 10 points down and, according to Dan Dierdorf and Al Michalls, down and out. Big Mike remembers four TDs in that second quarter, but I saw five. Michaels, after he and Dierdrf ridiculed the Redskins: "The Redskins are putting on long cleats. Ha ha...like that'll help them", and "the Redskins defense has really dug in...they only held Elway to a FG". It was always Elway against "nobody".

I doubt the ABC crew would even have known Doug Williams' name, except that all the media was snickering about "the first blacj QB to start a Super Bowl".

And the play by play: "Williams back in to start the second quarter. Redskin ball on their own 20. The snap...he has Sanders...Sanders Sanders! !"

Just think about that funky Broadway when the Giants come to town.

So the Eagles left McNabb sitting on the dock of the beautiful Schuylkill River. Mr Allen, son of a guy who hired a dancing bear to play DE, Mr Allen does not hesitate. No.

I feel good, like I knew that I would, now...that the Redskins can rev up that 05 Mustang. And what would news-hound Sally say??

(Background music to be supplied by your imagination or your memories.)

Yes, I lie Jason C., but I have always admired McNabb.

[/b]

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:he is not very good at making tough catches compared to other similarly paid WR's.

Actually drops don't say he can't make tough catches, they say he drops some easy catches. I think Moss has made a lot of tough ones as well. Also, JC throws hard balls to catch, especially on deep routes where they are lasers, not lofted and he's running full speed. I'm not arguing he's got the greatest hands in the NFL either, I'm just saying the characterization he "can't catch" is nonsense.

fleetus wrote: Again, stats are good for some very narrow band of information. But if you watch all the games, you'll no doubt gain the opinion that he is not very good at making tough catches compared to other similarly paid WR's.

PulpExposure wrote:McNabb is much better than Campbell, but before you think he's going to magically turn into a super-accurate NFL QB, you should really know what we're getting. Accuracy is McNabb's weakest area.

PulpExposure wrote:McNabb is much better than Campbell, but before you think he's going to magically turn into a super-accurate NFL QB, you should really know what we're getting. Accuracy is McNabb's weakest area.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:McNabb is much better than Campbell, but before you think he's going to magically turn into a super-accurate NFL QB, you should really know what we're getting. Accuracy is McNabb's weakest area.

I know who we're getting, seriously. A QB that completes passes of 20-40 yards 60 more times than JC.

It's not fair to truly compare completion % when JC isn't connecting deep. He's throwing 4 yard passes.

Having watched every game of McNabb’s career I decided to write a scouting report.

<snip>

Accuracy remains a major problem. McNabb’s completion percentage has gotten better, but he doesn’t consistently hit receivers where he should. He needs players that can adjust to passes low and high, as well as thrown behind them. The main culprit is sloppy footwork and delivery. There are times when McNabb will make perfect throws. He will then turn around and short-hop a wide open receiver. This can be maddening at times. He is very good on screen and swing passes. He puts good touch on the ball. He will still throw some short passes too hard and make his receivers fight the ball. McNabb is erratic with his deep passes. He throws a very catchable ball. He has a habit of holding the ball too long and then under-throwing his target. Go watch DeSean Jackson highlights. There were at least 5 long completions where Jackson had to slow down and wait for the ball.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:McNabb is much better than Campbell, but before you think he's going to magically turn into a super-accurate NFL QB, you should really know what we're getting. Accuracy is McNabb's weakest area.

I know who we're getting, seriously. A QB that completes passes of 20-40 yards 60 more times than JC.

It's not fair to truly compare completion % when JC isn't connecting deep. He's throwing 4 yard passes.

Seriously, the primary thing you hear in Philly with respect to McNabb is how he throws wormburners (and if you watch more Eagles games than 2x a year, it's true). Balls at receivers' feet.

For example, from McNabb's scouting report:

Having watched every game of McNabb’s career I decided to write a scouting report.

<snip>

Accuracy remains a major problem. McNabb’s completion percentage has gotten better, but he doesn’t consistently hit receivers where he should. He needs players that can adjust to passes low and high, as well as thrown behind them. The main culprit is sloppy footwork and delivery. There are times when McNabb will make perfect throws. He will then turn around and short-hop a wide open receiver. This can be maddening at times. He is very good on screen and swing passes. He puts good touch on the ball. He will still throw some short passes too hard and make his receivers fight the ball. McNabb is erratic with his deep passes. He throws a very catchable ball. He has a habit of holding the ball too long and then under-throwing his target. Go watch DeSean Jackson highlights. There were at least 5 long completions where Jackson had to slow down and wait for the ball.

Underlined things you should read (despite the ADHD nature of the scouting report, it's worth a read). Again, he's better than Campbell, but don't think you're getting a guy with Brady or Brees accuracy. His main problem throughout his career has been his accuracy. It's not good.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm not expecting that type of accuracy, I do think his accuracy is better than Jason's IMHO. I think Jason's numbers are skewed because he throws a lot of safe passes. McRibb def isn't Peyton but factoring in that he goes deep way more often than Jason but his accuracy is comparable says a lot imo.

McNabb started 15 games last year and didn’t have a single touchdown pass over 60 yards. Kevin Kolb started two games and threw two touchdown passes over 60 yards.

McNabb threw 5,323 passes as an Eagle and threw 10 touchdowns of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 532 attempts. Kolb has thrown 130 passes as an Eagle and has two TD passes of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 65 attempts.

McNabb has two 64-yard TDs since the middle of 2007, including a 71-yarder to Brian Westbrook in the 2008 playoffs on a short screen pass that Westbrook turned upfield. Kolb had two in his first two NFL starts.

After 3,050 career pass attempts, McNabb had two career touchdown passes of at least 64 yards. That’s two in his first 91 NFL starts spanning six-plus seasons.

And when Kolb threw a 71-yard TD to DeSean Jackson against the Saints and then a 64-yarder to Jackson against the Chiefs, he did something McNabb has never done – throw long TDs in consecutive games.

The last Eagle quarterback with touchdowns of at least 64 yards in consecutive games was Jim McMahon in 1991 – a 73-yarder to Keith Jackson against the Giants and then a 70-yarder to Fred Barnett against the Browns in that crazy 32-30 comeback win when the Eagles trailed 23-0 in the second quarter.

Jackson’s two longest career touchdown passes have come from Kolb, even though he’s played two seasons with McNabb and two games with Kolb.

Kolb already has as many touchdown passes of 64 or more yards to Jackson as McNabb has in his career to anybody. McNabb threw two to Kevin Curtis, two to Hank Baskett and two to Terrell Owens, plus one each to Westbrook, Donté Stallworth, James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.

(While we’re at it … Michael Vick threw 15 passes last year and had more TD passes over 64 yards than McNabb had all year.)

I’ve always been critical of Donovan McNabb. He simply strikes a nerve with me. It’s for all the obvious reasons: he has never won a Super Bowl after having several legitimate chances to do so, he has been injured way too many times, he doesn’t take the game seriously enough, and he is terribly inaccurate. What bothers me the most is when he throws the ball straight into the ground or 10 feet over the receivers head on 3rd down and smiles and laughs about it. That drives me absolutely nuts.

McNabb is far from a consistently accurate QB. McNabb supporters will point to his interception to passing attempt ratio being amongst the best in the league. That is a great characteristic of McNabb. He rarely turns the ball over. That’s because he rarely gives the opposing team to opportunity intercept him because the majority of his passes are over- or under-thrown. I would rather focus on his completion percentage.

In 2009, McNabb was 20th in the league — not even in the top half! Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, David Garrard, and Jason Campbell all had better completion percentages then McNabb. That is unacceptable! This wasn’t just one isolated year. In 2008, McNabb was ranked 18th in completion percentage. Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Trent Edwards, and Jeff Garcia all ousted McNabb in the category. McNabb beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick by a mere 0.8%. In 2007, McNabb was ranked 20th. Beaten by Joey Harrington, Brian Griese, Jon Kitna, Sage Rosenfels and Vince Young. In 2006, McNabb was ranked 23rd. Again beaten by Joey Harrington and others such as Damon Huard, J.P. Losman, and Mark Brunell. I could go on, but I think I made my point. For the last 4 season, McNabb hasn’t even cracked the top 50% in completion percentage and his completion percentage was worse than Joey Harrington during 2 seasons.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:McNabb is much better than Campbell, but before you think he's going to magically turn into a super-accurate NFL QB, you should really know what we're getting. Accuracy is McNabb's weakest area.

I know who we're getting, seriously. A QB that completes passes of 20-40 yards 60 more times than JC.

It's not fair to truly compare completion % when JC isn't connecting deep. He's throwing 4 yard passes.

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm not expecting that type of accuracy, I do think his accuracy is better than Jason's IMHO. I think Jason's numbers are skewed because he throws a lot of safe passes. McRibb def isn't Peyton but factoring in that he goes deep way more often than Jason but his accuracy is comparable says a lot imo.

We'll definitely see his accuracy. Just FYI, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of long balls from McNabb, either, because he just doesn't throw them that often.

McNabb started 15 games last year and didn’t have a single touchdown pass over 60 yards. Kevin Kolb started two games and threw two touchdown passes over 60 yards.

McNabb threw 5,323 passes as an Eagle and threw 10 touchdowns of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 532 attempts. Kolb has thrown 130 passes as an Eagle and has two TD passes of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 65 attempts.

McNabb has two 64-yard TDs since the middle of 2007, including a 71-yarder to Brian Westbrook in the 2008 playoffs on a short screen pass that Westbrook turned upfield. Kolb had two in his first two NFL starts.

After 3,050 career pass attempts, McNabb had two career touchdown passes of at least 64 yards. That’s two in his first 91 NFL starts spanning six-plus seasons.

And when Kolb threw a 71-yard TD to DeSean Jackson against the Saints and then a 64-yarder to Jackson against the Chiefs, he did something McNabb has never done – throw long TDs in consecutive games.

The last Eagle quarterback with touchdowns of at least 64 yards in consecutive games was Jim McMahon in 1991 – a 73-yarder to Keith Jackson against the Giants and then a 70-yarder to Fred Barnett against the Browns in that crazy 32-30 comeback win when the Eagles trailed 23-0 in the second quarter.

Jackson’s two longest career touchdown passes have come from Kolb, even though he’s played two seasons with McNabb and two games with Kolb.

Kolb already has as many touchdown passes of 64 or more yards to Jackson as McNabb has in his career to anybody. McNabb threw two to Kevin Curtis, two to Hank Baskett and two to Terrell Owens, plus one each to Westbrook, Donté Stallworth, James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.

(While we’re at it … Michael Vick threw 15 passes last year and had more TD passes over 64 yards than McNabb had all year.)

Seriously, there are reasons why Philly was unafraid to trade him inside the division, and why none of his young WRs were sad to see him go. Don't expect miracles from him.

More on accuracy...

I’ve always been critical of Donovan McNabb. He simply strikes a nerve with me. It’s for all the obvious reasons: he has never won a Super Bowl after having several legitimate chances to do so, he has been injured way too many times, he doesn’t take the game seriously enough, and he is terribly inaccurate. What bothers me the most is when he throws the ball straight into the ground or 10 feet over the receivers head on 3rd down and smiles and laughs about it. That drives me absolutely nuts.

McNabb is far from a consistently accurate QB. McNabb supporters will point to his interception to passing attempt ratio being amongst the best in the league. That is a great characteristic of McNabb. He rarely turns the ball over. That’s because he rarely gives the opposing team to opportunity intercept him because the majority of his passes are over- or under-thrown. I would rather focus on his completion percentage.

In 2009, McNabb was 20th in the league — not even in the top half! Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, David Garrard, and Jason Campbell all had better completion percentages then McNabb. That is unacceptable! This wasn’t just one isolated year. In 2008, McNabb was ranked 18th in completion percentage. Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Trent Edwards, and Jeff Garcia all ousted McNabb in the category. McNabb beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick by a mere 0.8%. In 2007, McNabb was ranked 20th. Beaten by Joey Harrington, Brian Griese, Jon Kitna, Sage Rosenfels and Vince Young. In 2006, McNabb was ranked 23rd. Again beaten by Joey Harrington and others such as Damon Huard, J.P. Losman, and Mark Brunell. I could go on, but I think I made my point. For the last 4 season, McNabb hasn’t even cracked the top 50% in completion percentage and his completion percentage was worse than Joey Harrington during 2 seasons.

Pretty stark.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Frankly, I hope the Skins keep Jason as a backup...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:Frankly, I hope the Skins keep Jason as a backup...

Why? Grossman is willing to suck a lot cheaper for us...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:Frankly, I hope the Skins keep Jason as a backup...

Why? Grossman is willing to suck a lot cheaper for us...

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm not expecting that type of accuracy, I do think his accuracy is better than Jason's IMHO. I think Jason's numbers are skewed because he throws a lot of safe passes. McRibb def isn't Peyton but factoring in that he goes deep way more often than Jason but his accuracy is comparable says a lot imo.

We'll definitely see his accuracy. Just FYI, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of long balls from McNabb, either, because he just doesn't throw them that often.

McNabb started 15 games last year and didn’t have a single touchdown pass over 60 yards. Kevin Kolb started two games and threw two touchdown passes over 60 yards.

McNabb threw 5,323 passes as an Eagle and threw 10 touchdowns of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 532 attempts. Kolb has thrown 130 passes as an Eagle and has two TD passes of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 65 attempts.

McNabb has two 64-yard TDs since the middle of 2007, including a 71-yarder to Brian Westbrook in the 2008 playoffs on a short screen pass that Westbrook turned upfield. Kolb had two in his first two NFL starts.

After 3,050 career pass attempts, McNabb had two career touchdown passes of at least 64 yards. That’s two in his first 91 NFL starts spanning six-plus seasons.

And when Kolb threw a 71-yard TD to DeSean Jackson against the Saints and then a 64-yarder to Jackson against the Chiefs, he did something McNabb has never done – throw long TDs in consecutive games.

The last Eagle quarterback with touchdowns of at least 64 yards in consecutive games was Jim McMahon in 1991 – a 73-yarder to Keith Jackson against the Giants and then a 70-yarder to Fred Barnett against the Browns in that crazy 32-30 comeback win when the Eagles trailed 23-0 in the second quarter.

Jackson’s two longest career touchdown passes have come from Kolb, even though he’s played two seasons with McNabb and two games with Kolb.

Kolb already has as many touchdown passes of 64 or more yards to Jackson as McNabb has in his career to anybody. McNabb threw two to Kevin Curtis, two to Hank Baskett and two to Terrell Owens, plus one each to Westbrook, Donté Stallworth, James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.

(While we’re at it … Michael Vick threw 15 passes last year and had more TD passes over 64 yards than McNabb had all year.)

Seriously, there are reasons why Philly was unafraid to trade him inside the division, and why none of his young WRs were sad to see him go. Don't expect miracles from him.

More on accuracy...

I’ve always been critical of Donovan McNabb. He simply strikes a nerve with me. It’s for all the obvious reasons: he has never won a Super Bowl after having several legitimate chances to do so, he has been injured way too many times, he doesn’t take the game seriously enough, and he is terribly inaccurate. What bothers me the most is when he throws the ball straight into the ground or 10 feet over the receivers head on 3rd down and smiles and laughs about it. That drives me absolutely nuts.

McNabb is far from a consistently accurate QB. McNabb supporters will point to his interception to passing attempt ratio being amongst the best in the league. That is a great characteristic of McNabb. He rarely turns the ball over. That’s because he rarely gives the opposing team to opportunity intercept him because the majority of his passes are over- or under-thrown. I would rather focus on his completion percentage.

In 2009, McNabb was 20th in the league — not even in the top half! Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, David Garrard, and Jason Campbell all had better completion percentages then McNabb. That is unacceptable! This wasn’t just one isolated year. In 2008, McNabb was ranked 18th in completion percentage. Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Trent Edwards, and Jeff Garcia all ousted McNabb in the category. McNabb beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick by a mere 0.8%. In 2007, McNabb was ranked 20th. Beaten by Joey Harrington, Brian Griese, Jon Kitna, Sage Rosenfels and Vince Young. In 2006, McNabb was ranked 23rd. Again beaten by Joey Harrington and others such as Damon Huard, J.P. Losman, and Mark Brunell. I could go on, but I think I made my point. For the last 4 season, McNabb hasn’t even cracked the top 50% in completion percentage and his completion percentage was worse than Joey Harrington during 2 seasons.

Pretty stark.

SKINFAN wrote:Mark "Noodle Arms" Brunnel took us to the playoffs.... Todd "Clipboard" Collins won enough to sneak into the playoffs. Both are backups, arguably they had the same thing Soup had, and now McNabb will have what they all have (players at least the ones that contribute). If those 2 can have success when soup cannot, I am excited to see what a guy like Dmac can do, specially playing his old team twice.

crazyhorse1 wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I'm not expecting that type of accuracy, I do think his accuracy is better than Jason's IMHO. I think Jason's numbers are skewed because he throws a lot of safe passes. McRibb def isn't Peyton but factoring in that he goes deep way more often than Jason but his accuracy is comparable says a lot imo.

We'll definitely see his accuracy. Just FYI, I wouldn't be expecting a lot of long balls from McNabb, either, because he just doesn't throw them that often.

McNabb started 15 games last year and didn’t have a single touchdown pass over 60 yards. Kevin Kolb started two games and threw two touchdown passes over 60 yards.

McNabb threw 5,323 passes as an Eagle and threw 10 touchdowns of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 532 attempts. Kolb has thrown 130 passes as an Eagle and has two TD passes of 64 yards or more. That’s one every 65 attempts.

McNabb has two 64-yard TDs since the middle of 2007, including a 71-yarder to Brian Westbrook in the 2008 playoffs on a short screen pass that Westbrook turned upfield. Kolb had two in his first two NFL starts.

After 3,050 career pass attempts, McNabb had two career touchdown passes of at least 64 yards. That’s two in his first 91 NFL starts spanning six-plus seasons.

And when Kolb threw a 71-yard TD to DeSean Jackson against the Saints and then a 64-yarder to Jackson against the Chiefs, he did something McNabb has never done – throw long TDs in consecutive games.

The last Eagle quarterback with touchdowns of at least 64 yards in consecutive games was Jim McMahon in 1991 – a 73-yarder to Keith Jackson against the Giants and then a 70-yarder to Fred Barnett against the Browns in that crazy 32-30 comeback win when the Eagles trailed 23-0 in the second quarter.

Jackson’s two longest career touchdown passes have come from Kolb, even though he’s played two seasons with McNabb and two games with Kolb.

Kolb already has as many touchdown passes of 64 or more yards to Jackson as McNabb has in his career to anybody. McNabb threw two to Kevin Curtis, two to Hank Baskett and two to Terrell Owens, plus one each to Westbrook, Donté Stallworth, James Thrash and Todd Pinkston.

(While we’re at it … Michael Vick threw 15 passes last year and had more TD passes over 64 yards than McNabb had all year.)

Seriously, there are reasons why Philly was unafraid to trade him inside the division, and why none of his young WRs were sad to see him go. Don't expect miracles from him.

More on accuracy...

I’ve always been critical of Donovan McNabb. He simply strikes a nerve with me. It’s for all the obvious reasons: he has never won a Super Bowl after having several legitimate chances to do so, he has been injured way too many times, he doesn’t take the game seriously enough, and he is terribly inaccurate. What bothers me the most is when he throws the ball straight into the ground or 10 feet over the receivers head on 3rd down and smiles and laughs about it. That drives me absolutely nuts.

McNabb is far from a consistently accurate QB. McNabb supporters will point to his interception to passing attempt ratio being amongst the best in the league. That is a great characteristic of McNabb. He rarely turns the ball over. That’s because he rarely gives the opposing team to opportunity intercept him because the majority of his passes are over- or under-thrown. I would rather focus on his completion percentage.

In 2009, McNabb was 20th in the league — not even in the top half! Alex Smith, Jay Cutler, David Garrard, and Jason Campbell all had better completion percentages then McNabb. That is unacceptable! This wasn’t just one isolated year. In 2008, McNabb was ranked 18th in completion percentage. Jason Campbell, Shaun Hill, Trent Edwards, and Jeff Garcia all ousted McNabb in the category. McNabb beat out Ryan Fitzpatrick by a mere 0.8%. In 2007, McNabb was ranked 20th. Beaten by Joey Harrington, Brian Griese, Jon Kitna, Sage Rosenfels and Vince Young. In 2006, McNabb was ranked 23rd. Again beaten by Joey Harrington and others such as Damon Huard, J.P. Losman, and Mark Brunell. I could go on, but I think I made my point. For the last 4 season, McNabb hasn’t even cracked the top 50% in completion percentage and his completion percentage was worse than Joey Harrington during 2 seasons.

Pretty stark.

I'm betting that Jason had a better year last year than McNabb will have this year. I hope I lose the bet.
Frankly, I hope the Skins keep Jason as a backup...in case McNabb fails or gets hurt, both of which are possibilities, especially if Okung turns out to be the only real help we get on the OL.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Seeing McNabb in the burgundy and gold is so weird.