The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

My point is that when someone post that Snyder sucks etc…That’s their opinion….if someone looks at it as fact then that’s their problem…and just because someone comes along and says but look at the last two year he’s done better…again that’s not proof that’s opinion. I wanted to draft Kenny Phillips in the first round last year I wasn’t happy that we drafted two WR and a TE. If in the future Phillips is a pro bowler and our 3 picks are bust…doesn’t mean that I was right or that it’s proof no more than if the opposite happens…My whole point is (I thought) the main purpose of this board it to allow people to post their OPIONINS…

There are a plethora of other common opinions that are being reiterated again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again and again with nothing new added to the conversation. That's what I'm tired of. I have to weed thru all that crap just to see if there's anything constuctive added to the topic, because I DO care about discussing topics I may have not heard about or new details to a topic I'm interested in

Not you don't...why put yourself thought that?? There are numerous threads and posters that I just stay away form.

DEHog wrote:My point is that when someone post that Snyder sucks etc…That’s their opinion….if someone looks at it as fact then that’s their problem…and just because someone comes along and says but look at the last two year he’s done better…again that’s not proof that’s opinion. I wanted to draft Kenny Phillips in the first round last year I wasn’t happy that we drafted two WR and a TE. If in the future Phillips is a pro bowler and our 3 picks are bust…doesn’t mean that I was right or that it’s proof no more than if the opposite happens…My whole point is (I thought) the main purpose of this board it to allow people to post their OPIONINS…

Of course, DE. My point with the links is if you're going to post something as fact, prove it. If you post it as an opinion, no link needed...it's clearly an opinion.

Also, speaking as a mod, I have no problems with presenting either a positive or negative opinion; it's your opinion.

However, as a poster, I've gotten very tired of the mostly negative viewpoint that's more prevalently expressed around here. I mean, do you see any posters called "SnyderRules" or have a 40+ page topic on how Snyder is a good owner? No. Instead, you have a great many people screaming bloody murder about this team, its owner, and the FO. And, that is almost the overwhelming perception people have of this board, and I think that's unfortunate; I know it scares potential posters away. I have a few friends who refuse to join this board because they think that it's completely negative. That's not healthy.

What kills me is this is pre-season, where everyone is supposed to be excited for the upcoming season. Right now, every team has the same record. Instead, many folks seem almost happy to assume the position that we're in for another mediocre season, and then proceed to almost gleefully squash everyone else's opinion. I mean hell, if you want to be pessimistic, follow the CLL road; at least wait until the season begins before deciding we're d00med, dammit

Speaking for myself, I think DEHog gets it - the only reason I keep "beating the drum" here is that my opinion here is trashed (by a few) and not allowed to be just what it is - MY OPINION - in a nutshell, I might be very mistaken about how this team is managed, but there are a couple of guys here that will object to any of my opinions just because they are not to worry - despite what some may like or dislike (and maybe, in spite of those few) as long as I "play" by the rules I am going to stay here and if they keep pissing me off I'll call Cerrato & Snyder bozos every day - just because I can

I would love for things to be debated and discussed but unfortunately there are some here that mis-interpret that and decide to make their points by trying to put some posters down just for having a negative view - GET OVER IT - we are discussing the Redskins, if you don't like it, leave us alone here in our mediocrity

PulpExposure wrote:

DEHog wrote:My point is that when someone post that Snyder sucks etc…That’s their opinion….if someone looks at it as fact then that’s their problem…and just because someone comes along and says but look at the last two year he’s done better…again that’s not proof that’s opinion. I wanted to draft Kenny Phillips in the first round last year I wasn’t happy that we drafted two WR and a TE. If in the future Phillips is a pro bowler and our 3 picks are bust…doesn’t mean that I was right or that it’s proof no more than if the opposite happens…My whole point is (I thought) the main purpose of this board it to allow people to post their OPIONINS…

Of course, DE. My point with the links is if you're going to post something as fact, prove it. If you post it as an opinion, no link needed...it's clearly an opinion.

Also, speaking as a mod, I have no problems with presenting either a positive or negative opinion; it's your opinion.

However, as a poster, I've gotten very tired of the mostly negative viewpoint that's more prevalently expressed around here. I mean, do you see any posters called "SnyderRules" or have a 40+ page topic on how Snyder is a good owner? No. Instead, you have a great many people screaming bloody murder about this team, its owner, and the FO. And, that is almost the overwhelming perception people have of this board, and I think that's unfortunate; I know it scares potential posters away. I have a few friends who refuse to join this board because they think that it's completely negative. That's not healthy.

What kills me is this is pre-season, where everyone is supposed to be excited for the upcoming season. Right now, every team has the same record. Instead, many folks seem almost happy to assume the position that we're in for another mediocre season, and then proceed to almost gleefully squash everyone else's opinion. I mean hell, if you want to be pessimistic, follow the CLL road; at least wait until the season begins before deciding we're d00med, dammit

I respectfully disagree… I think the board has more positive (than negative) people on it..IMO it is when the people react to the few negative people of the board that the perception that this is a negative board it perpetuated.

I going to e real honest here…when I was staff I was told I could post freely, but I just felt like I had to be positive…so I defended the Skins…it very nice to just be a part of the community again… I have a great deal of respect for those of you who volunteer your time…but you shouldn’t and I hope you don’t feel like you have to defend every little negative comment or opinion.

SkinsJock wrote:Speaking for myself, I think DEHog gets it - the only reason I keep "beating the drum" here is that my opinion here is trashed (by a few) and not allowed to be just what it is - MY OPINION - in a nutshell, I might be very mistaken about how this team is managed, but there are a couple of guys here that will object to any of my opinions just because they are not to worry - despite what some may like or dislike (and maybe, in spite of those few) as long as I "play" by the rules I am going to stay here and if they keep pissing me off I'll call Cerrato & Snyder bozos every day - just because I can

I would love for things to be debated and discussed but unfortunately there are some here that mis-interpret that and decide to make their points by trying to put some posters down just for having a negative view - GET OVER IT - we are discussing the Redskins, if you don't like it, leave us alone here in our mediocrity

Having an opinion is fine SJ... but many times you attempt to assert them as fact, and that's where other posters have the right to call your bluff.

And when you post things like...

SkinsJock wrote:If you cannot stand me refering to Cerrato and Snyder as bozos, ad infinitum, then my intent to make you a little irritated is working - cheers

... that is entering the the realm of flaming and is not within the rules.

DEHog wrote:I going to e real honest here…when I was staff I was told I could post freely, but I just felt like I had to be positive…so I defended the Skins…it very nice to just be a part of the community again… I have a great deal of respect for those of you who volunteer your time…but you shouldn’t and I hope you don’t feel like you have to defend every little negative comment or opinion.

Well, that may be your perception, but that assertion is not grounded in reality as it applies to other staff members. There are many staff members that voice their frustrations and "negativity" towards the teams management. But it's done with perspective and objectivity... much like you do. I don't always agree with you, but I will, and have, defended your posts and points of view... because it's done with perspective and objectivity.

SkinsFreak wrote:Having an opinion is fine SJ... but many times you attempt to assert them as fact, and that's where other posters have the right to call your bluff.

And when you post things like...

SkinsJock wrote:If you cannot stand me refering to Cerrato and Snyder as bozos, ad infinitum, then my intent to make you a little irritated is working - cheers

... that is entering the the realm of flaming and is not within the rules.

Well! flaming is certainly not my intention

lets start again, shall we

We now are facing a new season and the fact remains that we have a record of mediocrity since Snyder took over - assuring me that will all change because things look better around this team and especially with Snyder and Cerrato in charge here, is an opinion ONLY and is certainly not a fact. As I have stated numerous times, things have looked "good" for this team a number of times before, at this time of the NFL year, but the results on the field have not changed.

telling me that Cerrato and Snyder do not drop passes or make tackles so they are not resonsible is not doing much for me - telling me that Cerrato and Snyder only 'manage' the team and the "rest" is up to the coaches and players is also not doing much for me - the FACT is we have nothing but mediocrity to show for it - I understand that we can do little about the situation but express our dis-satisfaction - that is what this site is for

My feeling is simply that I am hoping for the best but am fairly sure that because of these 2 (whatever you want to call them) - we are not quite there yet just like every year



I think that it is okay to express that here and does not need to be put down or scorned by anyone who does not like it


to them I simply say - get over it

HAIL

As a poster:
As long as that's not the content of every post, I can respect that. It's the 100th time that it's said is when some people get annoyed. No one that I recall says that owner/FO is doing a remarkable job. Some individuals just like to look at it objectively and Illustrate that the FO has not screwed up EVERY decision they've ever made.

...and to touch on the being staff and defending/supporting the Redskins: I've never been approached by any other mod for my type of commentary. I support the skins b/c that's what I want to do. I think, even among staff, we see differently, and we've discussed those differences.

I am guilty - this was only because I felt that some here were not allowing us to vent and were almost insulting in responding to my (and other's) frustrations - being Australian, I will not let people (especially those that know better) get away with that

I'm done here - onto the rest of camp and hopefully a great season

HAIL

VetSkinsFan wrote:As a poster:
As long as that's not the content of every post, I can respect that. It's the 100th time that it's said is when some people get annoyed. No one that I recall says that owner/FO is doing a remarkable job. Some individuals just like to look at it objectively and Illustrate that the FO has not screwed up EVERY decision they've ever made.

...and to touch on the being staff and defending/supporting the Redskins: I've never been approached by any other mod for my type of commentary. I support the skins b/c that's what I want to do. I think, even among staff, we see differently, and we've discussed those differences.

Please don’t take my comments as I think the staff “has” to be positive…I was simply being honest about how I felt when I was staff. No one ever told me I had to be or post in a certain way…It was my doing.

Its funny how the season goes...I know I've been critical of the FO during the offseason, but one trip to camp and I’m as excited as I always am…My son starts practice today and Wed. I’m off to Canton!!

PulpExposure wrote:

DEHog wrote:My point is that when someone post that Snyder sucks etc…That’s their opinion….if someone looks at it as fact then that’s their problem…and just because someone comes along and says but look at the last two year he’s done better…again that’s not proof that’s opinion. I wanted to draft Kenny Phillips in the first round last year I wasn’t happy that we drafted two WR and a TE. If in the future Phillips is a pro bowler and our 3 picks are bust…doesn’t mean that I was right or that it’s proof no more than if the opposite happens…My whole point is (I thought) the main purpose of this board it to allow people to post their OPIONINS…

Of course, DE. My point with the links is if you're going to post something as fact, prove it. If you post it as an opinion, no link needed...it's clearly an opinion.

It also helps to post links to items that might support your opinions, thereby making a stronger argument for your point of view.

I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

Skinsfan55 wrote:I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

So the measure of a good owner is the amount of money he makes??
So you should be ecstatic as a fan of the Skins… I hope we don’t go to the SB while the team loses money you’d be pretty upset

Skinsfan55 wrote:I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

say what! ...... No! I really am done here

I am not interested to persuade those members of the lollipop club. You can keep on dreaming all you want. You can call your opinions "facts" and other people's posts baseless speculation. Fine.

The day somebody, like Dedskins, wishes to take my challenge and act accordingly based on the RECORD of this team I will feel that you are confident about your views.

The RECORD of the team is a fact, the most important fact which overrides all the smoke and mirrors.

And Pulp, sorry to keep all those other positive potential posters away from this site. It must be people like us who keep them away. Too bad ...

... only problem is ...

... our numbers are growing and my prediction is that this season will add greater numbers to our side. Unfortunately, we wanting the Skins to win does not make them champions. Too bad really but nobody denies the chance everybody has to make a wish upon a star.

DEHog wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

So the measure of a good owner is the amount of money he makes??
So you should be ecstatic as a fan of the Skins… I hope we don’t go to the SB while the team loses money you’d be pretty upset

So, you just took what I said, and drew it out to it's most ridiculous conclusion?

Honestly he measure of an owner is how he/she treats their employees, not just players, as far as I'm concerned, followed by on field success, business acumen, etc. etc.

I really don't know how the Danny ranks in treating employees (other than player stories from Arrington and others), and I sure know about on field success ... but the guy just might be the smartest businessman in the NFL.

He's not a "good" NFL owner, and he won't be unless he continues changing and adapting but to say he's the third worst when he's built a financial powerhouse with the Redskins seems to overlook a big part of the picture.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

So the measure of a good owner is the amount of money he makes??
So you should be ecstatic as a fan of the Skins… I hope we don’t go to the SB while the team loses money you’d be pretty upset

So, you just took what I said, and drew it out to it's most ridiculous conclusion?

Honestly he measure of an owner is how he/she treats their employees, not just players, as far as I'm concerned, followed by on field success, business acumen, etc. etc.

I really don't know how the Danny ranks in treating employees (other than player stories from Arrington and others), and I sure know about on field success ... but the guy just might be the smartest businessman in the NFL.

He's not a "good" NFL owner, and he won't be unless he continues changing and adapting but to say he's the third worst when he's built a financial powerhouse with the Redskins seems to overlook a big part of the picture.

valid

Honestly he measure of an owner is how he/she treats their employees, not just players, as far as I'm concerned, followed by on field success, business acumen, etc. etc.

If media reports are to be believed, not well at all.

CanesSkins26 wrote:

Honestly he measure of an owner is how he/she treats their employees, not just players, as far as I'm concerned, followed by on field success, business acumen, etc. etc.

If media reports are to be believed, not well at all.

Dude, you cracked me up. "If media reports are to be believed"...

Redskin in Canada wrote:And Pulp, sorry to keep all those other positive potential posters away from this site. It must be people like us who keep them away. Too bad ...

... only problem is ...

... our numbers are growing and my prediction is that this season will add greater numbers to our side. Unfortunately, we wanting the Skins to win does not make them champions. Too bad really but nobody denies the chance everybody has to make a wish upon a star.

Seriously, could you have proven my point for me any better than posting exactly this?



And you walked right into it. Lol!

Skinsfan55 wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Skinsfan55 wrote:I haven't read all 42 pages of this thread, but it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season.

So the measure of a good owner is the amount of money he makes??
So you should be ecstatic as a fan of the Skins… I hope we don’t go to the SB while the team loses money you’d be pretty upset

So, you just took what I said, and drew it out to it's most ridiculous conclusion?

Honestly he measure of an owner is how he/she treats their employees, not just players, as far as I'm concerned, followed by on field success, business acumen, etc. etc.

I really don't know how the Danny ranks in treating employees (other than player stories from Arrington and others), and I sure know about on field success ... but the guy just might be the smartest businessman in the NFL.

He's not a "good" NFL owner, and he won't be unless he continues changing and adapting but to say he's the third worst when he's built a financial powerhouse with the Redskins seems to overlook a big part of the picture.

What conclusion was I suppose to come to when you make the statement...

it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season

You are directly linking the kind of owner he is based on the money he spends...no?

As for him being a great business man yes he was in his prior field...I'm hesitant to give that same title to him here because one he brought into a great brand (the NFL) and he brought one of its best product (Redskins) for that he is smart. As for the rest I'd be more impress if he had done it in places like Jax, Det, Cin etc...

DEHog wrote:What conclusion was I suppose to come to when you make the statement...

it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season

You are directly linking the kind of owner he is based on the money he spends...no?

You weren't supposed to draw any conclusion. In that statement all I said was "it's hard to call Dan Snyder a bad owner" because he's so successful in the business aspect of ownership. Like I said, for all his other faults as an owner: not being able to stick to a plan (he's got the Redskins on their 5th 3 year plan since he bought the team ten years ago), not being a good judge of talent, not being a player's owner etc. I think that by calling him the third worst owner in the NFL you overlook a big piece of the puzzle.

You don't seem to give him credit for being a good businessman in the NFL, and that's where we seem to disagree. I'm not saying Snyder should be at the top, in the middle or even in the top 25%... but 3rd out of 32? It just seems like the media's dislike of the guy seeping through.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

DEHog wrote:What conclusion was I suppose to come to when you make the statement...

it's hard to say a guy is a bad owner when he makes money hand over fist while still spending the max every season

You are directly linking the kind of owner he is based on the money he spends...no?

You weren't supposed to draw any conclusion. In that statement all I said was "it's hard to call Dan Snyder a bad owner" because he's so successful in the business aspect of ownership. Like I said, for all his other faults as an owner: not being able to stick to a plan (he's got the Redskins on their 5th 3 year plan since he bought the team ten years ago), not being a good judge of talent, not being a player's owner etc. I think that by calling him the third worst owner in the NFL you overlook a big piece of the puzzle.

You don't seem to give him credit for being a good businessman in the NFL, and that's where we seem to disagree. I'm not saying Snyder should be at the top, in the middle or even in the top 25%... but 3rd out of 32? It just seems like the media's dislike of the guy seeping through.

That's great and all, but neither fans nor the media are going to give an owner credit for making money when the team isn't successful on the field. In reality, nobody really cares about how much money Snyder is making as an owner. The only results that people care about are W's and L's.

Like RiC, my views haven't changed one bit -- Daniel Snyder is incapable of running a winning football operation. Worse still, he's unwilling to cede operational control to someone who is.

(And, while Gibbs was here, Cerrato was an EQUAL THIRD in the player evaluation and acquisiting process .... those are Gibbs' own words, too)

But, even I'm tired of typing the same thing ad nauseum. That's why I've stayed away from this board and my Webskins mailing list.

I still lurk but right now, I meet everything about the Redskins with a giant 'meh.'

Get me to Week 1 and I'll be different. That's usually how it works.