The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

Aside from that, Moss will be a legit deep threat again. Thank God.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

Aside from that, Moss will be a legit deep threat again. Thank God.

Well, he does have to throw it over linemen. Steve Smith (carolina) is Moss height and would catch most of those balls.

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

Aside from that, Moss will be a legit deep threat again. Thank God.

Well, he does have to throw it over linemen. Steve Smith (carolina) is Moss height and would catch most of those balls.

Well sir, become a Panther fan. We have S. Moss. We now have a QB that can accurately throw the ball to Moss. JC is gone, it's McRibb time.

With McNabb on board, we'll be able to accurately rate all of WR's, Moss included. We'll see a bump in production from all of them.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

Aside from that, Moss will be a legit deep threat again. Thank God.

Well, he does have to throw it over linemen. Steve Smith (carolina) is Moss height and would catch most of those balls.

Well sir, become a Panther fan. We have S. Moss. We now have a QB that can accurately throw the ball to Moss. JC is gone, it's McRibb time.

With McNabb on board, we'll be able to accurately rate all of WR's, Moss included. We'll see a bump in production from all of them.

I feel I can already rate Moss' hands and toughness. Hopefully Thomas has a coming out party.

brad7686 wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It'll be nice to have a QB who doesn't think S. Moss is 6'5 because that's how JC throws short passes to Moss. He throws them where he has to climb up a latter to get them.

Aside from that, Moss will be a legit deep threat again. Thank God.

Well, he does have to throw it over linemen. Steve Smith (carolina) is Moss height and would catch most of those balls.

So did Moss run over your dog? Did he bang your wife? Did he bring along friends when he did it? You brush off JC constantly throwing over Moss's head...something noticed across this board...you know, a fan board of the Redskins...where we actually pay attention to these things. Yet you insist Moss can't catch, which we haven't noticed. You've gotten acknowledgment he's had some drops because....he has.

But that he can't catch isn't supported by empirical data. We know he can because we've actually watched the games. If you insist the dead tree in your yard isn't dead and people top telling you "sorry, it's dead," it doesn't mean you convinced them it's alive. You only convinced them you will believe what you want to despite the facts.

is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

Moss won't have a lot of drops when McNabb isn't throwing the ball behind him like JC does.

count me in on happy with this trade now. I really wanted that high 2nd rounder in a draft full of good offensive lineman, but the reality is that McNabb will instantly give us a lot more offense just by himself, and we would have probably done something stupid like trade up and take bradford or stayed and taken clausen. With this trade, we get a great QB who could conceiveably play 5 more years and we still get Okung or Williams.

We still have some maneuvering room to try and get a couple more lineman too...

I'm really looking forward to a much improved Redskin team this year. Davis, ey and Thomas are gonna shine I think...

brad7686 wrote:Well you look at Minnesota, they were smart enough to actually build a team before they made a move for an old quarterback. And they were the best team in football, who got outlucked by the saints

That's crap. The Saint's pounded Favre all day, and it paid off at the end of the game. Nothing lucky about it.

A great trade. Hail to Redskins!!!

McNab is a fine fine super-fine QB, as we used to say back with Nighthawk Bob Terry and Soulfinger Fred Corey. (A tip of the hat to anyone who remembers, and CT is not allowed to guess. The station was????)

In fact, I think it's time to try a little tenderness with this Redskin management. Try try try a little tenderness yes yes, oh yes.

We have a real HC again, this one remembers being an assistant that evening when a Joe Gibbs team started 10 points down and, according to Dan Dierdorf and Al Michalls, down and out. Big Mike remembers four TDs in that second quarter, but I saw five. Michaels, after he and Dierdrf ridiculed the Redskins: "The Redskins are putting on long cleats. Ha ha...like that'll help them", and "the Redskins defense has really dug in...they only held Elway to a FG". It was always Elway against "nobody".

I doubt the ABC crew would even have known Doug Williams' name, except that all the media was snickering about "the first blacj QB to start a Super Bowl".

And the play by play: "Williams back in to start the second quarter. Redskin ball on their own 20. The snap...he has Sanders...Sanders Sanders! !"

Just think about that funky Broadway when the Giants come to town.

So the Eagles left McNabb sitting on the dock of the beautiful Schuylkill River. Mr Allen, son of a guy who hired a dancing bear to play DE, Mr Allen does not hesitate. No.

I feel good, like I knew that I would, now...that the Redskins can rev up that 05 Mustang. And what would news-hound Sally say??

(Background music to be supplied by your imagination or your memories.)

Yes, I lie Jason C., but I have always admired McNabb.

[/b]

Welch my man, you have a caustically poetic side to your commentary that I can only say is A-W-E-S-O-M-E. Very well said brother.

Very well indeed.

brad7686 wrote:

SKINFAN wrote:it's not about love I don't think. I think it's more like what happened? He was a good enough to be named #1 with old noodle arms brunnel throwing to him then soup came in and he disappeared. It would've been different if another reciever was producing but our TE was more effective than any of our WR.... So I will give him the same courtesy we extended to Soup. Let him play a year or two with a real QB, not one that just plays one on TV. =)

Possibly. I'll be curious to see when he drops everything thrown his way this season whether they blame it on him or McNabb. They really need to get the other guys going this year, because Moss is at best a complimentary piece. He's not a #1.

I care not if he's #1 or a gadget guy, as long as he can help this team win. I promise you I have no blind faith on anyone, only the best player plays, or else I cry like a baby in this forum.

brad7686 wrote:All I was really saying is that Calvin Johnson is better than Santana Moss. That's retarded how? If you're saying I'm incorrect, then I would say it is you who is being retarded.

Try learning how to convey your thoughts. That is NOT what you said, check the quote. I never even got that from your post, hence me calling it retarded. Also notice that I called the POST retarded, not you.

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

Flat out wrong, inaccurate or false or what ever you want to call that load of cr..
Look I know you don't think a lot of Moss, but your hatred of him just doesn't jive with the facts.

I was ignoring your downward spiralling hate filled spew, but don't invent things!

He is NOT NEAR THE TOP in drops EVERY year.

If you want to say you think other WR would catch Most of the poor passes JC threw him, then go right ahead, but don't insult us by making a statement as fact, when it is even close to being accurate.

Aside from the humanistic approach or therefore lack of humanistic approach; and not to be overly reliant on the stats, IE drops,[how the ball was delivered], and ave. time per pass play ect. I will stand firm saying- Once the Redskins recievers get warm and feel the flow of a game, one that features the likes of the Syracuse alumnist Mcnabb, we all will see great things from them. I remember the enthusiastic and (in a unique way) melodramatic 59 yard bomb vs WVU, when Mcnabb ran the length of the field shocked at the pois and command he displayed that ultimatly defined him as an NFL great. On the other hand I can invision that with time Jason Cambell , if available can and probably will shock us all. I have not seen Cambell play in the Shanahan offense, as it stands the optimism is rampant, I can tell many think Donavan fits the system and will do well. I too am super happy at the idea that we bring in a lineman, and rememebr we still have talent at the reciever position!!

Aside from the humanistic approach or therefore lack of humanistic approach; and not to be overly reliant on the stats, IE drops,[how the ball was delivered], and ave. time per pass play ect. I will stand firm saying- Once the Redskins recievers get warm and feel the flow of a game, one that features the likes of the Syracuse alumnist Mcnabb, we all will see great things from them. I remember the enthusiastic and (in a unique way) melodramatic 59 yard bomb vs WVU, when Mcnabb ran the length of the field shocked at the pois and command he displayed that ultimatly defined him as an NFL great. On the other hand I can invision that with time Jason Cambell , if available can and probably will shock us all. I have not seen Cambell play in the Shanahan offense, as it stands the optimism is rampant, I can tell many think Donavan fits the system and will do well. I too am super happy at the idea that we bring in a lineman, and rememebr we still have talent at the reciever position!!

Aside from the humanistic approach or therefore lack of humanistic approach; and not to be overly reliant on the stats, IE drops,[how the ball was delivered], and ave. time per pass play ect. I will stand firm saying- Once the Redskins recievers get warm and feel the flow of a game, one that features the likes of the Syracuse alumnist Mcnabb, we all will see great things from them. I remember the enthusiastic and (in a unique way) melodramatic 59 yard bomb vs WVU, when Mcnabb ran the length of the field shocked at the pois and command he displayed that ultimatly defined him as an NFL great. On the other hand I can invision that with time Jason Cambell , if available can and probably will shock us all. I have not seen Cambell play in the Shanahan offense, as it stands the optimism is rampant, I can tell many think Donavan fits the system and will do well. I too am super happy at the idea that we bring in a lineman, and rememebr we still have talent at the reciever position!!

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

He dropped 8 passes in 16 games this year. Sure, that's more then I'd like to see. But he caught 70 passes. So you add them together, of 78 balls he dropped 10% of them. One out of ten. Yet you go around talking about his not being able to catch as if you know what you're talking about.

Rather then calculating the stats, you could also have watched the games.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

He dropped 8 passes in 16 games this year. Sure, that's more then I'd like to see. But he caught 70 passes. So you add them together, of 78 balls he dropped 10% of them. One out of ten. Yet you go around talking about his not being able to catch as if you know what you're talking about.

The NFL is very conservative in assessing drops, so it isn't helpful to do the calculation you just did. You have to compare him to other players, and he does typically rank pretty high on the list. You also have to rely on what you see on the field until a more reliable drop statistic emerges (probably from a website like Football Outsiders, in a few years). Since I can only speak for myself on that account, it seemed to me that Moss dropped way too many catchable balls last year.

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

He dropped 8 passes in 16 games this year. Sure, that's more then I'd like to see. But he caught 70 passes. So you add them together, of 78 balls he dropped 10% of them. One out of ten. Yet you go around talking about his not being able to catch as if you know what you're talking about.

The NFL is very conservative in assessing drops, so it isn't helpful to do the calculation you just did. You have to compare him to other players, and he does typically rank pretty high on the list. You also have to rely on what you see on the field until a more reliable drop statistic emerges (probably from a website like Football Outsiders, in a few years). Since I can only speak for myself on that account, it seemed to me that Moss dropped way too many catchable balls last year.

Yeah, the ball has to practically bounce off his helmet to be considered a drop. How many times do you see him get his hands on the ball and see it deflect off. Again, stats are good for some very narrow band of information. But if you watch all the games, you'll no doubt gain the opinion that he is not very good at making tough catches compared to other similarly paid WR's.

tribeofjudah wrote:wow, there goes loyalties out the window... Will he now bleed burgundy and gold??? I think he will eventually retire as an Eagle.....when all is said and done.

Maybe... but a Superbowl win might change all bets.

welch wrote:A great trade. Hail to Redskins!!!

McNab is a fine fine super-fine QB, as we used to say back with Nighthawk Bob Terry and Soulfinger Fred Corey. (A tip of the hat to anyone who remembers, and CT is not allowed to guess. The station was????)

Cute, welch... but it WOuLd not be a guess... no matter where in the WOrLd I might be...

IF he wins a SB here, he WILL NOT retire as an Eagle, especially if their trophy case is still empty.

His legacy is not winning the big game, do u think they'll embrace him if he does it HERE OF ALL PLACES!?

He will retire a Skin if he wins the big game.

Irn-Bru wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

brad7686 wrote:is that why he is near the top of the drops list every year?

He dropped 8 passes in 16 games this year. Sure, that's more then I'd like to see. But he caught 70 passes. So you add them together, of 78 balls he dropped 10% of them. One out of ten. Yet you go around talking about his not being able to catch as if you know what you're talking about.

The NFL is very conservative in assessing drops, so it isn't helpful to do the calculation you just did. You have to compare him to other players, and he does typically rank pretty high on the list. You also have to rely on what you see on the field until a more reliable drop statistic emerges (probably from a website like Football Outsiders, in a few years). Since I can only speak for myself on that account, it seemed to me that Moss dropped way too many catchable balls last year.

Do you see these statements as synonymous?

1) Moss drops too many passes

2) Moss can't catch.

I agreed with the first and disagreed with the second. You seem to be arguing the first, which I agreed with. I also think JC was a huge problem, he put Moss in positions regularly of having to risk decapitation with for example high throws over the middle rather then throwing it to him. Moss also made some fantastic catches, often because of JC's horrible throws. None of those contradict the first, if you're arguing that I already agreed with it and continue to. They all contradict the second, if you're arguing that then I don't agree and don't see your post as really having supported.

fleetus wrote:he is not very good at making tough catches compared to other similarly paid WR's.

Actually drops don't say he can't make tough catches, they say he drops some easy catches. I think Moss has made a lot of tough ones as well. Also, JC throws hard balls to catch, especially on deep routes where they are lasers, not lofted and he's running full speed. I'm not arguing he's got the greatest hands in the NFL either, I'm just saying the characterization he "can't catch" is nonsense.