The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

You have to have a QB who can get these receivers the ball before the receivers get all the blame although they do need better receivers or ones that can stay on the field. Nothing wrong with Crowder. Trey Quinn could even get open.

Sonny9TD wrote:You have to have a QB who can get these receivers the ball before the receivers get all the blame although they do need better receivers or ones that can stay on the field. Nothing wrong with Crowder. Trey Quinn could even get open.

Nothing except that he plays for the Jets now?

I suggest the Redskins offer Keenum and a 3rd rounder for Rosen. Maybe throw in a 3rd rounder for next year to make it a little more attactive. Still, whatever happens, we need receivers.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:To me it's a vicious cycle. You can't develop a QB without receivers and you can't develop receivers without a QB. I sense the team has a lot more faith in that group of receivers than it should. There are eleven players in the league who caught more balls than the top three Redskins wide receivers combined.

Again, I know what you're saying but you have to start somewhere. Its just the way the league is set up that you're always going to have guys in and out through free agency. You're always going to have WRs injured or retiring or whatever. There's rarely a perfect moment.

Maybe they get lucky this year and Doctson finally steps up. Or Quinn comes around. Or we actually see Paul Richardson catch a ball. (I agree with you that I'm not banking on any of those things.) Otherwise your QB has to spend a year throwing mainly to the TEs and RBs and maybe Brian Quick on occasion! lol.

JP Finlay's draft predictions for the Skins today are pretty interesting btw. He thinks the team will take a guard, TE, and WR in the first few rounds (but not with their 1st).

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/re ... redictions

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Sonny9TD wrote:You have to have a QB who can get these receivers the ball before the receivers get all the blame although they do need better receivers or ones that can stay on the field. Nothing wrong with Crowder. Trey Quinn could even get open.

Nothing except that he plays for the Jets now?

Yea but he wasn't getting the ball while he was here because of not having an above average QB. Our QB has been the problem. Not the receivers as much as has been said. But they do need a playmaker and a QB to get him the ball. Injuries was just as much a culprit with receivers as talent. They just weren't on the field and when they were check down Alex couldn't get them the ball. Having Crowder leave for the Jets was another mistake along with countless others. But Deebo Samuels is one WR i hope we can get. We probably won't have the draft capital to do it unless we trade down in the first round

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:To me it's a vicious cycle. You can't develop a QB without receivers and you can't develop receivers without a QB. I sense the team has a lot more faith in that group of receivers than it should. There are eleven players in the league who caught more balls than the top three Redskins wide receivers combined.

Again, I know what you're saying but you have to start somewhere. Its just the way the league is set up that you're always going to have guys in and out through free agency. You're always going to have WRs injured or retiring or whatever. There's rarely a perfect moment.

Maybe they get lucky this year and Doctson finally steps up. Or Quinn comes around. Or we actually see Paul Richardson catch a ball. (I agree with you that I'm not banking on any of those things.) Otherwise your QB has to spend a year throwing mainly to the TEs and RBs and maybe Brian Quick on occasion! lol.

JP Finlay's draft predictions for the Skins today are pretty interesting btw. He thinks the team will take a guard, TE, and WR in the first few rounds (but not with their 1st).

https://www.nbcsports.com/washington/re ... redictions

My frustration obviously stems from the Redskins history of being really bad at drafting receivers. I'm beyond tired of drafting and wasting time developing the Rod Gardner's of the league. This draft is weak on receivers. There's one consensus first round WR in this draft and he will be gone before the Skins pick. The others are all either end of 1st or 2nd round grades at best. The Skins can't afford to pass on higher graded players at other positions to reach on receivers.

By the way, I'll have my own draft predictions posted in a blog shortly, not that anyone here even bothers reading the blogs anymore.

riggofan wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:If Rosen were in this year's draft he'd be the number 1 overall pick. He's rated as an immediate starter.
We have one healthy QB. I say we make a deal for Rosen.

I don't want to give up our first round pick. Otherwise, I'm totally on board with this.

I agree with both of you AND it's really important to not give up our first round pick to get Rosen

Sonny9TD wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Sonny9TD wrote:You have to have a QB who can get these receivers the ball before the receivers get all the blame although they do need better receivers or ones that can stay on the field. Nothing wrong with Crowder. Trey Quinn could even get open.

Nothing except that he plays for the Jets now?

Yea but he wasn't getting the ball while he was here because of not having an above average QB. Our QB has been the problem. Not the receivers as much as has been said. But they do need a playmaker and a QB to get him the ball. Injuries was just as much a culprit with receivers as talent. They just weren't on the field and when they were check down Alex couldn't get them the ball. Having Crowder leave for the Jets was another mistake along with countless others. But Deebo Samuels is one WR i hope we can get. We probably won't have the draft capital to do it unless we trade down in the first round

There's the problem. If the Skins trade their second for Rosen they can't use it on a Samuels or anyone else. I guess I should get used to the idea of having Rosen and the receivers on the roster. That doesn't mean I have to like it.

There's the problem. If the Skins trade their second for Rosen they can't use it on a Samuels or anyone else. I guess I should get used to the idea of having Rosen and the receivers on the roster. That doesn't mean I have to like it.



Well i think there are other receivers later in the draft that can be great. Antonio Brown was a 6th rounder but Rosen should be a priority. We just don't have a QB that can make it happen with 2 minutes left in the game on the roster now. He is worth a first rounder if we have to do that but i certainly rather would not. 2nd round this year 3rd next year would be better. We need either Burns or Hockenson badly. Burns would be my pick and get the defense taken care of for this year to make a run. Sure we could use some more help on defense but to win now get an edge rusher now and the focus on offense with all the other picks other than a gem of a linebacker late in the draft.

Sonny9TD wrote:There's the problem. If the Skins trade their second for Rosen they can't use it on a Samuels or anyone else. I guess I should get used to the idea of having Rosen and the receivers on the roster. That doesn't mean I have to like it.



Well i think there are other receivers later in the draft that can be great. Antonio Brown was a 6th rounder but Rosen should be a priority. We just don't have a QB that can make it happen with 2 minutes left in the game on the roster now. He is worth a first rounder if we have to do that but i certainly rather would not. 2nd round this year 3rd next year would be better. We need either Burns or Hockenson badly. Burns would be my pick and get the defense taken care of for this year to make a run. Sure we could use some more help on defense but to win now get an edge rusher now and the focus on offense with all the other picks other than a gem of a linebacker late in the draft.

I don't think Burns makes it out of the top ten but Montez Sweat might be there at #15.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I don't think Burns makes it out of the top ten but Montez Sweat might be there at #15.

Montez Sweat sounds like an R&B superstar, so I'm totally down with him.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I don't think Burns makes it out of the top ten but Montez Sweat might be there at #15.

Montez Sweat sounds like an R&B superstar, so I'm totally down with him.

Sorry if someone already posted this:

NBC Sports' Peter King believes Washington is the "favorite in the clubhouse" to trade for Josh Rosen.
Over the weekend, ESPN's John Keim reported there is a "solid chance" Washington trades for Rosen. The Cardinals are infatuated with Oklahoma QB Kyler Murray, so it seems like a foregone conclusion Rosen will be moved before the draft. The Giants reportedly are "not in love" with Rosen, leaving Washington as the only real suitor unless a team with an older quarterback like the Chargers or Patriots decides to get involved. Rosen did not play well as a rookie, but he was in a bad situation and, most importantly, is on a cheap contract over the next three seasons. The team which ends up trading for him will be getting a bargain.

That's weird reporting, man. I SWEAR I saw Keim the other day making some non-committal comments on Rosen. Like "I can confidently state that the Redskins will either trade for Rosen or they won't.". lol. That's my only thing about this story is that its not clear to me how much the Redskins are really interested in this vs. the idea being floated/driven by the media.

I think the Giants are in a pretty good position if they want to get a QB with two first round picks. They can get a stud OT or edge player, probably still grab a guy they like with the #17 pick and not have to play him right away. Point being I don't think they have the same urgency to make a deal for Rosen.

I'm hoping the Skins just continue to ride this out until right up to the draft. If nobody else is pressing the Cardinals to make the trade, the price for Rosen should stay reasonable.

riggofan wrote:That's weird reporting, man. I SWEAR I saw Keim the other day making some non-committal comments on Rosen. Like "I can confidently state that the Redskins will either trade for Rosen or they won't.". lol. That's my only thing about this story is that its not clear to me how much the Redskins are really interested in this vs. the idea being floated/driven by the media.

I think the Giants are in a pretty good position if they want to get a QB with two first round picks. They can get a stud OT or edge player, probably still grab a guy they like with the #17 pick and not have to play him right away. Point being I don't think they have the same urgency to make a deal for Rosen.

I'm hoping the Skins just continue to ride this out until right up to the draft. If nobody else is pressing the Cardinals to make the trade, the price for Rosen should stay reasonable.

I have seen so many opinions on Rosen to the Redskins that I've decided to just wait and see if it happens. It won't happen before the draft in any case or event.

I see the Pats with the 32nd pick making the swap.. Learn behind the goat and be secure at qb for another lifetime

Two weeks ahead of the NFL draft, Andy Benoit and Gary Gramling are breaking down the biggest areas of need for all 32 teams.
Redskins

Biggest Need: Quarterback
You hope Alex Smith can play again, but you can’t count on it. And with Case Keenum being a bridge guy, we’ll take this opportunity to once again shout from the mountain tops that WASHINGTON SHOULD TRADE FOR JOSH ROSEN—even if it means giving up their No. 15 overall pick. Besides being a perfect stylistic fit for Jay Gruden’s system, Rosen coming out of UCLA was, on many boards, a higher-rated prospect than any of this year’s QBs. If he were coming out now, the debate would be whether to take him or Kyler Murray; there’s no way would Rosen slip to 15th in this draft. So not only are we talking about a quality QB prospect, but one who is, again, PERFECT FOR JAY GRUDEN’S OFFENSE!

If the Redcskins let Rosen get away because they won't give a 1st round pick for Rosen after they have been given a life line for a potentially super star QB after mucking up Alex Smith and Kirk Cousins for trillions of dollars almost and broken legs and countless other draft picks wasted by this ownership they really will be incompetent.

For HOGS sake get Rosen and a mauler LG and get this offensive line firing on all cylinders with Rosen at QB and watch this offense look brand new and a threat to score at anytime.

The price ( giving a 1st rounder ) for Rosen is a small price to pay for all the wasted picks and foolish decisions this management has made. A life line has been thrown to us. A life line that is very expensive but a life line none the less. If we had drafted just 10% better we would.t be in this mess and could be drafting a stud edge rusher or TE with our 1st pick which would be where we should be at this point but the decisions that have been made has put us in a deep hole and now someone has offered an expensive life line to climb out with. Pay the price if need be and let this be a lesson on decision making. They should offer less of course but be ready to part with that 1st rounder if the Cardinals call our bluff and stand firm. Don't let the Giants get him Bruce / Dan

Sonny9TD wrote:The price ( giving a 1st rounder ) for Rosen is a small price to pay for all the wasted picks and foolish decisions this management has made.

Giving up a 1st rounder is never a "small price to pay" especially when they should be able to get him without giving up their 1st round pick. If they can get a pass rusher or safety or cornerback or any other positon player at a position of need (and they have a lot of needs) and get Rosen for their 2nd and a future pick of some sort that is far better than giving up their 1st for Rosen and hoping they get lucky with their 2nd.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Sonny9TD wrote:The price ( giving a 1st rounder ) for Rosen is a small price to pay for all the wasted picks and foolish decisions this management has made.

Giving up a 1st rounder is never a "small price to pay" especially when they should be able to get him without giving up their 1st round pick. If they can get a pass rusher or safety or cornerback or any other positon player at a position of need (and they have a lot of needs) and get Rosen for their 2nd and a future pick of some sort that is far better than giving up their 1st for Rosen and hoping they get lucky with their 2nd.

Why should they be able to get him for less than a 1st? The Cardinals would be nuts not to ask for a 1st. Especially with the desperate Redskins. If i couldn't get a first for him I would keep him if I were the Cardinals. The least payment to get him is the goal. Common sense. But the Redskins don't get to set the terms. They can only accept or decline the Cardinals terms unless they get proactive and take charge and present some possibilities for the Cardinals to think about first. They can't be coy and play poker this time. They have no chips left.

They have way over paid for dink and dunk with broken legs at the most important position of all. It would be silly to want to pick an edge rusher instead of a really good QB if that was the only way we could get Rosen. Madness. Sure i hope that isn't the case but i have my doubts. They have played the draft game and lost most of the time. Now they have to pay what is asked or watch the Giants get him because we were worried over one draft pick that would probably be a pass rusher. If Bruce had done his job correctly Preston Smith or someone other than Ryan Anderson would already be here to do what they want to do now and probably draft another pass rusher. They got that right once with Kerrigan nearly a decade a go. Murphy was OK but he aint here now.

They have really screwed up getting good players here in the draft Except in the last 2 years. I give them credit the last 2 years which were rather good actually.

Get Rosen what ever he cost then make up the lost draft capital by picking a gem or gems in the later rounds. Personally i would give the Cardinals a 3rd, 5th, Case Keenum and Josh Doctson this year a 5th next year and try to get a 4th rounder back this year so we could draft at least 2 wide receivers and a guard for sure. That way the Cardinals don't lose face for all they gave up to get Rosen last year when we give up our 1st round pick ( Doctson ) in this trade so it will appear they make up what they gave up to get him. Appear is the magic trick here when we get the better end of that deal. Lots of Josh Doctson's out there to be had. I like Colt McCoy as much as Case Keenum. But i would surely give them the 1st round pick if they played hardball because we need what they have after the mess we have made of things too may times.

Sonny9TD wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Sonny9TD wrote:The price ( giving a 1st rounder ) for Rosen is a small price to pay for all the wasted picks and foolish decisions this management has made.

Giving up a 1st rounder is never a "small price to pay" especially when they should be able to get him without giving up their 1st round pick. If they can get a pass rusher or safety or cornerback or any other positon player at a position of need (and they have a lot of needs) and get Rosen for their 2nd and a future pick of some sort that is far better than giving up their 1st for Rosen and hoping they get lucky with their 2nd.

Yes that would be nice. That assumes they get lucky with their first if not Rosen. ( See Doctson ) I do actually think they would get lucky this year. The least payment to get him is the goal. Common sense. But the Redskins don't get to set the terms. They can only accept or decline the Cardinals terms unless they get proactive and take charge and present some possibilities for the Cardinals to think about first. They can't be coy and play poker this time. They have no chips left.

They have way over paid for broken legs at the most important position of all. It would be silly to want to pick an edge rusher instead of a really good QB if that was the on ly way. Madness. They have played the draft game and lost most of the time. Now they have to pay what is asked or watch the Giants get him because we were worried over one draft pick that would probably be a pass rusher instead. If Bruce had done his job correctly Preston Smith or someone other than Ryan Anderson would already be here to do what they want to do now probably and draft another pass rusher. They got that right once with Kerrigan nearly a decade a go. Murphy was OK but he aint here now

Get Rosen what ever he cost then make up the lost draft capital by picking a gem or gems in the later rounds. Personally i would give the Cardinals a 3rd, 5th, Case Keenum and Josh Doctson this year a 5th next year and try to get a 4th rounder back so we could draft at least 2 wide receivers and get this done now. That way the Cardinals don't lose face for all they gave up to get Rosen when we give up our 1st round pick in this trade so it will appear they make up what they gave up to get him. Appear is the magic trick here when we know we get the better end of that deal. Lots of Josh Doctson's out there to be had. I like Colt McCoy as much as Case Keenum. But i would surely give them the 1st round pick if they played hardball because we need what they have after the mess we have made of things too may times.

I'd work from the perspective that everything is on the table except our 1st round pick. You can have our 2nd this year and next year. But the Redskins need impact players. They have four or five of them at the most. I don't count AP because he's 34. They have Trent Williams and Branson Scherff and Ryan Kerrigan and maybe Landon Collins if that works out but with the Redskins that's always a question. I'm not that sold on Rosen just because he'd be the first QB taken in a weak QB draft year.

"I'm not that sold on Rosen just because he'd be the first QB taken in a weak QB draft year."


I understand what you're saying.. Especially if you don't like Rosen. We can agree to disagree on that.

Sonny9TD wrote:"I'm not that sold on Rosen just because he'd be the first QB taken in a weak QB draft year."


I understand what you're saying.. Especially if you don't like Rosen. We can agree to disagree on that.

I don't dislike Rosen. I'm just saying Arizona kind of stuck it to themselves by drafting Rosen as a 1st round pick last year and now wanting to go in a different direction. Why would the Redskins trade their #15 on Rosen over drafting Lock if he is on the board? Experience doesn't matter if Gruden is going to be out after this season. Any QB will be learning a new system in that case. Gruden hasn't done anything that would make me think Dan Snyder is going to give him an extension.

Maybe the person who really likes Rosen isn't Jay Gruden. Maybe it's Doug Williams.

I don't know. I still have a lot of questions about what they are thinking and who is calling the shots. I really don't want to see the Redskins trade their 1st rounder this season only to have a new coach come in next year and decide he wants his own QB. We know how that goes.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Sonny9TD wrote:"I'm not that sold on Rosen just because he'd be the first QB taken in a weak QB draft year."


I understand what you're saying.. Especially if you don't like Rosen. We can agree to disagree on that.

I don't dislike Rosen. I'm just saying Arizona kind of stuck it to themselves by drafting Rosen as a 1st round pick last year and now wanting to go in a different direction. Why would the Redskins trade their #15 on Rosen over drafting Lock if he is on the board? Experience doesn't matter if Gruden is going to be out after this season. Any QB will be learning a new system in that case. Gruden hasn't done anything that would make me think Dan Snyder is going to give him an extension.

Maybe the person who really likes Rosen isn't Jay Gruden. Maybe it's Doug Williams.

I don't know. I still have a lot of questions about what they are thinking and who is calling the shots. I really don't want to see the Redskins trade their 1st rounder this season only to have a new coach come in next year and decide he wants his own QB. We know how that goes.

Lock won't be there at 15. I don't see that happening. I could be wrong but i don't think so. I don't think experience would be the determining factor. It would be who is the better QB which i think is Rosen but others may not. If they did get Rosen they are not choosing a head coach who wants to change QB to the one he wants. The coach would be hired to coach Rosen. If they choose Lock they would be using their first round pick so what's the difference. The Redskins have done this to themselves. That is the situation they created for themselves with all the bad decisions. The Cardinals are the one's in the driver seat with this trade not the Redskins. The Cardinals would be nuts letting Rosen go for just a second round pick. I don't care what Klien or Mortensen says. That's crazy talk. The Cardinals aren't falling for any bluff that involves the Redskins threatening to take Lock instead so you better accept our second round offer. They would be stupid to do so. The Cardinals could easily hold on to Rosen and wait for the first team with a QB to get hurt and deal with a desperate team.

Having said all that i think they should package other draft picks instead of the 1st round pick like a second this year and a 3rd next year kind of deal. More than one draft pick in other words. They should do everything possible not to give the Cardinals their first round pick. But if i had to if you bent my arm behind my back i would do it.

Sonny9TD wrote: Why should they be able to get him for less than a 1st?

There's an easy answer to that question. Rosen has already played one year on his rookie contract. That reduces his value. Taking Drew Lock with the 1st pick is more valuable because you are guaranteed to have him on his rookie deal for 4-5 years. With Rosen, its only 3-4. And there's not really any argument that Rosen has "proven" he's a viable NFL QB any more than Lock or Haskins or whoever. All of those guys are still just potential.

Sonny9TD wrote:Lock won't be there at 15. I don't see that happening. I could be wrong but i don't think so. I don't think experience would be the determining factor. It would be who is the better QB which i think is Rosen but others may not. If they did get Rosen they are not choosing a head coach who wants to change QB to the one he wants. The coach would be hired to coach Rosen. If they choose Lock they would be using their first round pick so what's the difference. The Redskins have done this to themselves. That is the situation they created for themselves with all the bad decisions. The Cardinals are the one's in the driver seat with this trade not the Redskins. The Cardinals would be nuts letting Rosen go for just a second round pick. I don't care what Klien or Mortensen says. That's crazy talk. The Cardinals aren't falling for any bluff that involves the Redskins threatening to take Lock instead so you better accept our second round offer. They would be stupid to do so. The Cardinals could easily hold on to Rosen and wait for the first team with a QB to get hurt and deal with a desperate team.

Having said all that i think they should package other draft picks instead of the 1st round pick like a second this year and a 3rd next year kind of deal. More than one draft pick in other words. They should do everything possible not to give the Cardinals their first round pick. But if i had to if you bent my arm behind my back i would do it.

Possible Lock won't be there. I've also seen some experts give Will Grier a higher grade than Lock. I've seen some experts say the Redskins should move up and take Haskins. One way or another we can be sure they are going to get a QB. But the only type of head coach who would step into a situation where he's told that he has to work with an unproven QB is an unproven head coach. That worked out well for Gruden with RGIII. That was the biggest reason Shanahan didn't work out. You don't tell a qualified head coach they have to work with a QB because he's the guy you like. That's why part of me keeps thinking they should address other needs in this draft and worry about a QB in the next one. You're not going to get Nick Saban to leave Alabama by telling him he has to use your QB to develop his offense. You're going to get a guy no other team would give a shot. Every time the Skins do that disaster strikes.