The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:This.........horse.........is........dead.

Brandon Banks is one of the best returners in the game. He makes this team. Get over it people!

Punt returner will get him a roster spot but it sure in the hell wont be for his WR skills.

skinpride1 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:This.........horse.........is........dead.

Brandon Banks is one of the best returners in the game. He makes this team. Get over it people!

Punt returner will get him a roster spot but it sure in the hell wont be for his WR skills.

Don't count him out yet as a receiver yet, Skinpride. Those good reports in practice weren't a mirage. Without seeing the game again, the only thing that I saw that he didn't do well was plant and make his cuts well. That is why he slipped twice. Thay can easily be attributed to a player falling back on old habits due to nerves. That can be fixed easily and Banks has showed that he has the work ethic to do it.

Not what else did he do poor as a receiver? On the first go route, he didn't get separation (some folks say he did). The ball was underthrown and fought back for it and prevented an intereception. That was good. Some folks say that if he were bigger, he would have caught it. Like every big receiver catches the ball in that situations - doesn't happen that often. The second go route, perfect studder step move and blew by the defender. A hit on Cousins prevented that from being 6. Excellent by Banks.

Pass by Rex on the sideline Banks showed good footwork to stay in bounds, but Rex's pass was way too wide to the open Banks. Excellent on Banks' part.

Criticism was given that he was so small that defenders reached around him. Like that has never happened to Santana Moss or any other small receiver. The problem there goes back to making the cut precisely to gain separation. I posted earlier on this thread that Tandler, at last year's TC, observed veteran Skins receivers rounding their cuts - this is a common problem for receivers - Banks is raw and will need to work on that this week in camp.

I have read commentaries by several beat writers and the two comments that kept coming up were

1. He was not getting separation and he slipped (valid - but the same fix)

2. the other comments were he was too small. If he were too small, he wouldn't have had the success against our D in practice (a pretty good D I might say). If he were too small, Shanny wouldn't even be giving him a chance. He has plenty of receivers to look at. This Kirkland guy is starting to get comments from the beat writers, so why would Shanny waste the time, he he didn't see Banks as a legit receiver.

So I ask you what poor skills, as a receiver, did you see in Banks, that he can't fix practice this week? I am asking honestly. Perhaps, you have rewatched the game and saw something I didn't.

Red_One43 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:This.........horse.........is........dead.

Brandon Banks is one of the best returners in the game. He makes this team. Get over it people!

Punt returner will get him a roster spot but it sure in the hell wont be for his WR skills.

Don't count him out yet as a receiver yet, Skinpride. Those good reports in practice weren't a mirage. Without seeing the game again, the only thing that I saw that he didn't do well was plant and make his cuts well. That is why he slipped twice. Thay can easily be attributed to a player falling back on old habits due to nerves. That can be fixed easily and Banks has showed that he has the work ethic to do it.

Not what else did he do poor as a receiver? On the first go route, he didn't get separation (some folks say he did). The ball was underthrown and fought back for it and prevented an intereception. That was good. Some folks say that if he were bigger, he would have caught it. Like every big receiver catches the ball in that situations - doesn't happen that often. The second go route, perfect studder step move and blew by the defender. A hit on Cousins prevented that from being 6. Excellent by Banks.

Pass by Rex on the sideline Banks showed good footwork to stay in bounds, but Rex's pass was way too wide to the open Banks. Excellent on Banks' part.

Criticism was given that he was so small that defenders reached around him. Like that has never happened to Santana Moss or any other small receiver. The problem there goes back to making the cut precisely to gain separation. I posted earlier on this thread that Tandler, at last year's TC, observed veteran Skins receivers rounding their cuts - this is a common problem for receivers - Banks is raw and will need to work on that this week in camp.

I have read commentaries by several beat writers and the two comments that kept coming up were

1. He was not getting separation and he slipped (valid - but the same fix)

2. the other comments were he was too small. If he were too small, he wouldn't have had the success against our D in practice (a pretty good D I might say). If he were too small, Shanny wouldn't even be giving him a chance. He has plenty of receivers to look at. This Kirkland guy is starting to get comments from the beat writers, so why would Shanny waste the time, he he didn't see Banks as a legit receiver.

So I ask you what poor skills, as a receiver, did you see in Banks, that he can't fix practice this week? I am asking honestly. Perhaps, you have rewatched the game and saw something I didn't.

Banks was open for a sure six but the pass was short. Not Bank's fault. If he had scored, he would have had three receptions and a TD, and we would be talking about how he was a lock for the team. Our perceptions suck. Shanty's not so stupid. He'll take any receiver that can beat a defender long once a game. Also, he has a small head and it doesn't bobble.

crazyhorse1 wrote:Banks was open for a sure six but the pass was short. Not Bank's fault. If he had scored, he would have had three receptions and a TD, and we would be talking about how he was a lock for
the team. Our perceptions suck. Shanty's not so stupid. He'll take any receiver that can beat a defender long once a game. Also, he has a small head and it doesn't bobble.

True, but he also didn't make the best of the oppurtunities that were makeable. He also, kept slipping in and out of his breaks. I've gone on record stating that he'll make the team, but now I'm not so sure.


After seeing Briscoe when I attended camp this past Saturday, I believe he's got one of the last 2 spots locked up... Kirk fired a high pass into the back of the end-zone, and all you see is a huge body rise above the shoulders of everyone else on the field to make the grab. Briscoe, will be on this team fellas. He'll be a huge asset in the redzone. Personally, I'd like to see a 3 WR set from the 10 of Garcon, Hank and Briscoe. Redzone offense should not be in the bane of our existence as it has been for the past 10 years+.

Garcon
Morgan
Hank
Moss
Briscoe
Banks/AAA/Aldrick

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

crazyhorse1 wrote:Banks was open for a sure six but the pass was short. Not Bank's fault. If he had scored, he would have had three receptions and a TD, and we would be talking about how he was a lock for
the team. Our perceptions suck. Shanty's not so stupid. He'll take any receiver that can beat a defender long once a game. Also, he has a small head and it doesn't bobble.

True, but he also didn't make the best of the oppurtunities that were makeable. He also, kept slipping in and out of his breaks. I've gone on record stating that he'll make the team, but now I'm not so sure.

I have to agree with CLL on this. In life, you often only get one shot - Thursday night was Banks' time to shine. Thursday night he showed raw receiver skills. We can blame Grossman and as I have done, talk about his positives, but Brandon did not step up when the spot light was on. I don't believe the issue here is that Brandon has poor receiver skills, with his work ethic, he will get better. The question is, does he have the time. We have more talent at WR this year and maybe only 6 slots. We have a lot of O line injuries, can Shanny afford 7 receiver slots?

CLL wrote:

After seeing Briscoe when I attended camp this past Saturday, I believe he's got one of the last 2 spots locked up... Kirk fired a high pass into the back of the end-zone, and all you see is a huge body rise above the shoulders of everyone else on the field to make the grab. Briscoe, will be on this team fellas. He'll be a huge asset in the redzone. Personally, I'd like to see a 3 WR set from the 10 of Garcon, Hank and Briscoe. Redzone offense should not be in the bane of our existence as it has been for the past 10 years+.

Garcon
Morgan
Hank
Moss
Briscoe
Banks/AAA/Aldrick

This were I am leaning. I expect Briscoe to continue to have perfromances like he did Saturday and there is no reason to doubt that it won't transfer to the games, because he did it with Tampa Bay.

Aldrick is no surprise guy. He was expected by a lot of beat writers to be the surprise of the camp, but for some reason he choked (probably nerves), but he has since pulled it together. He is probably the most polished receiver on the roster when it comes to technique (quote was posted earlier in this thread). If he can prove he can catch punts in games (has not returned punts since high school), watch out for him because he is a great open field runner.

AAA - looking to rebound, but his receiver skills have been raw and he showed it last year. Reports say that he could't get off the line. We all saw his hands. Not a good route runner. He has speed, but so does Banks and Aldrick. He can get up for the ball (big plus). He is going to return KOs in preseason (Not much to get a chance to return one with the new rules). With is speed being matched by Aldrick and Banks and also Kirkland who should make the PS, AAA needs to show something that sets him apart.

Also, 1nik points out that Crawford looks like a viable option at PR should he make the team and looks like he will.

Red_One43 wrote:I have to agree with CLL on this. In life, you often only get one shot - Thursday night was Banks' time to shine. Thursday night he showed raw receiver skills. We can blame Grossman and as I have done, talk about his positives, but Brandon did not step up when the spot light was on. I don't believe the issue here is that Brandon has poor receiver skills, with his work ethic, he will get better. The question is, does he have the time. We have more talent at WR this year and maybe only 6 slots. We have a lot of O line injuries, can Shanny afford 7 receiver slots?

We won't carry 7 WR's. And Banks will get more chances to prove himself. I'd like to see him get a few plays designed for him with the 1's, give the man a shot to get a properly placed pass with some decent blocking. To be fair, Rex was half of Brandon's problem.

Red_One43 wrote:This were I am leaning. I expect Briscoe to continue to have perfromances like he did Saturday and there is no reason to doubt that it won't transfer to the games, because he did it with Tampa Bay.

5+ teams put a claim on him for a reason. He's "behind" because he didnt have the off-season to learn the playbook. Physically, he's fine. 6 TD's shows that he's a threat. Redskin fans are a funny bunch, folks here scoffed and called him a bum. Name a Redskin WR from the past few years that had 6 TD's...

Red_One43 wrote:AAA - looking to rebound, but his receiver skills have been raw and he showed it last year. Reports say that he could't get off the line. We all saw his hands. Not a good route runner. He has speed, but so does Banks and Aldrick. He can get up for the ball (big plus). He is going to return KOs in preseason (Not much to get a chance to return one with the new rules). With is speed being matched by Aldrick and Banks and also Kirkland who should make the PS, AAA needs to show something that sets him apart.

AAA is a deep threat and Rex has a weak arm. It wasn't JUST the jam that was an issue, it was Rex's noodle arm. If AAA can get healthy and on the field, he's a threat. U need a guy that can take the top off the defense. I'd rather have AAA for that role than Banks, AAA has the size to jockey for position over DB's.

Red_One43 wrote:Also, 1nik points out that Crawford looks like a viable option at PR should he make the team and looks like he will.

This is a list of Bank's enemies.

1. Rex
2. Himself
3. Crawford

Those are the reasons he'll get cut.

you don't use a guy like Banks on the outside and have him go out for "jump balls"; you use him in a Welker-like slot role. get it to him on a little zip across the middle and let him juke a LB and turn on the jets.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This is a list of Bank's enemies.

1. Rex
2. Himself
3. Crawford

Those are the reasons he'll get cut.

Just to add..

4. A knife

langleyparkjoe wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:This is a list of Bank's enemies.

1. Rex
2. Himself
3. Crawford

Those are the reasons he'll get cut.

Just to add..

4. A knife

die cowboys die wrote:you don't use a guy like Banks on the outside and have him go out for "jump balls"; you use him in a Welker-like slot role. get it to him on a little zip across the middle and let him juke a LB and turn on the jets.

You do realize that the further inside he goes, the more his body size become an issue?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Name a Redskin WR from the past few years that had 6 TD's...

Brandon Lloyd, only he did it for Denver.

die cowboys die wrote:you don't use a guy like Banks on the outside and have him go out for "jump balls"; you use him in a Welker-like slot role. get it to him on a little zip across the middle and let him juke a LB and turn on the jets.

He's not a good enough route runner for that. After sharp cuts in Buffalo, he spent more time on the ground than with his hands on the ball.

Banks needs to burn people using his jets, and then you throw the ball to him. No one is saying use him for jump balls. (Nobody.) But the fact that he wasn't even competitive for a non-perfect throw IMHO was a very bad sign.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:We won't carry 7 WR's.

The only definitive about Shanny's personnel decisions is unpredictability.
Who predicted him keeping 8 receivers last year? Not saying that that means that he will keep 8 or 7 or even 6. I am saying that Shanny's MO with personnel decisions is keep the best 53 (in his mind) who have the best chance to help us win. Yes, that means he sacrifices some positions that fans see as needs. Example: last year he could have kept another O linemen but keep 8 receivers. Did that make football sense? Want more evidence - think back to his last years in Broncos with the questionable personnel decisions he made with the Broncos. Shanny clearly does things his way.

You say no way and you could end up being right, but the reality is with Shanny there is a way - the Shanny way.

Why would I go 7:

1. Shanny likes tinkering with ways to use Banks. Banks is a weapon he like having. Banks is 100% healthy for the first time. If Banks improves on his route running in games, we know he can do it in practice - Banks is there. He always says good things about Brandon including the slight on his past before. He said words to the effect, Brandon is beginning to be a pro player.

2. Aldrick Robinson is a darn good receiver. It has taken him a bit to show it in practice, but Shanny trusts June Jones at SMU which is why he continues to draft Jones' players. Robinson says potential, potential and potential again - just as a wideout. You don't get rid of this guy even if it turns out in games , he can't catch punts. He brought Aldrick up to the 53 for the last game of last season to keep the Jags from getting him. Shanny likes Aldrick.

3. Don't know if Briscoe is in yet with Shanny, but I will assume he is with his red zone prowess.

My seven looks like this:
Garcon, Moss, Hank, Morgan, Briscoe, Robinson and Banks

Well banks is going to have to do better than what he did in the last game is how I feel about it.

REC YDS AVG TD LG TGTS
2 7 3.5 0 7 9

Mississippiskinsfan2 wrote:Well banks is going to have to do better than what he did in the last game is how I feel about it.

REC YDS AVG TD LG TGTS
2 7 3.5 0 7 9

I'll support that assertion

die cowboys die wrote:you don't use a guy like Banks on the outside and have him go out for "jump balls"; you use him in a Welker-like slot role. get it to him on a little zip across the middle and let him juke a LB and turn on the jets.

Welker-like slot for Banks? Don't know about that, but certainly, you have the right idea that you find packages to exploit his speed. As Shanny showed, it is not always about catching the ball as a wideout.

1. Reverses
2. Option pass
3. The ill-fated wildcat for Banks. Remember that one against Minnesota in 2010?
4. ? - What is Shanny thinking up next?

*He even tinkered on the KOR with Banks pitching to Armstong on the reverse against the Pats.

Irn-Bru wrote:

die cowboys die wrote:you don't use a guy like Banks on the outside and have him go out for "jump balls"; you use him in a Welker-like slot role. get it to him on a little zip across the middle and let him juke a LB and turn on the jets.

He's not a good enough route runner for that. After sharp cuts in Buffalo, he spent more time on the ground than with his hands on the ball.

Banks needs to burn people using his jets, and then you throw the ball to him. No one is saying use him for jump balls. (Nobody.) But the fact that he wasn't even competitive for a non-perfect throw IMHO was a very bad sign.

I agree.

You know what else is a bad sign? Two days of practice and I am not hearing anything postive from the beat writers about Banks. Jake was tough on him on Saturday pointing out that he had three drops - two in receiver drills and one he got "sandwiched" in the 11 on 11 and dropped the ball (Tandler records all the drops for RGIII passes and had Davis dropping one). Of course, I don't know if that is just the media saying that story has run its course due to Thursday's performance or he hasn't seen much action - I have been looking for comments from Shanny.

“I’m very frustrated,” Banks said, “because I feel like in order to make this team, I’ve got to make plays, and that’s what I do by making plays: blowing by defenders and basically, getting the ball in my hands, and I didn’t get the ball as much in the opportunities that I had.”

Asked if there was anything about his performance that he liked, Banks said, “I competed. I got the opportunity, and that’s all I’ve been wanting the last two years, is opportunity. I didn’t make the best of it, but hopefully I get better, and hopefully I get more opportunities.”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... ll-insider

I'm still putting my bets on the WR depth looking like this.

Garcon
Hankerson
Moss
Morgan
Those 4 spots are a lock.
Now 5-7 is where it gets tough.
5 Briscoe/A. armstrong
6 Aldrick
7 Banks

Now the question is can we keep all those guys by keeping BANKS a Punt returner and still use him some at WR .

Briscoe may be average but is decent in red zone and I see better then Aldrick/Banks. Armstrong i would still take over Banks,

Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

skinpride1 wrote:I'm still putting my bets on the WR depth looking like this.

Garcon
Hankerson
Moss
Morgan
Those 4 spots are a lock.
Now 5-7 is where it gets tough.
5 Briscoe/A. armstrong
6 Aldrick
7 Banks

Now the question is can we keep all those guys by keeping BANKS a Punt returner and still use him some at WR .

Briscoe may be average but is decent in red zone and I see better then Aldrick/Banks. Armstrong i would still take over Banks,

Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

Loved the Rudy analogy!
I like Armstong as well, but what do you like about him over Aldrick.

Red_One43 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I'm still putting my bets on the WR depth looking like this.

Garcon
Hankerson
Moss
Morgan
Those 4 spots are a lock.
Now 5-7 is where it gets tough.
5 Briscoe/A. armstrong
6 Aldrick
7 Banks

Now the question is can we keep all those guys by keeping BANKS a Punt returner and still use him some at WR .

Briscoe may be average but is decent in red zone and I see better then Aldrick/Banks. Armstrong i would still take over Banks,

Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

Loved the Rudy analogy!
I like Armstong as well, but what do you like about him over Aldrick.

I don't want to speak for him, but it could be the fact that AAA actually has catches and had a very good year the one year he had a QB.

He is also a big part of both ST coverage units and is one of our better blogging WR.

I'm not say AR can't do those things, he just hasn't yet.

I'll take a guy I KNOW can be a 40 catch 19y/c guy that is also a very good blocker and ST player over a guy that might be those things.

Red_One43 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I'm still putting my bets on the WR depth looking like this.

Garcon
Hankerson
Moss
Morgan
Those 4 spots are a lock.
Now 5-7 is where it gets tough.
5 Briscoe/A. armstrong
6 Aldrick
7 Banks

Now the question is can we keep all those guys by keeping BANKS a Punt returner and still use him some at WR .

Briscoe may be average but is decent in red zone and I see better then Aldrick/Banks. Armstrong i would still take over Banks,

Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

Loved the Rudy analogy!
I like Armstong as well, but what do you like about him over Aldrick.

I don't want to speak for him, but it could be the fact that AAA actually has catches and had a very good year the one year he had a QB.

He is also a big part of both ST coverage units and is one of our better blogging WR.

I'm not say AR can't do those things, he just hasn't yet.

I'll take a guy I KNOW can be a 40 catch 19y/c guy that is also a very good blocker and ST player over a guy that might be those things.

skinsfan#33 wrote:

Red_One43 wrote:

skinpride1 wrote:I'm still putting my bets on the WR depth looking like this.

Garcon
Hankerson
Moss
Morgan
Those 4 spots are a lock.
Now 5-7 is where it gets tough.
5 Briscoe/A. armstrong
6 Aldrick
7 Banks

Now the question is can we keep all those guys by keeping BANKS a Punt returner and still use him some at WR .

Briscoe may be average but is decent in red zone and I see better then Aldrick/Banks. Armstrong i would still take over Banks,

Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

Loved the Rudy analogy!
I like Armstong as well, but what do you like about him over Aldrick.

I don't want to speak for him, but it could be the fact that AAA actually has catches and had a very good year the one year he had a QB.

He is also a big part of both ST coverage units and is one of our better blogging WR.

I'm not say AR can't do those things, he just hasn't yet.

I'll take a guy I KNOW can be a 40 catch 19y/c guy that is also a very good blocker and ST player over a guy that might be those things.

I used to have AAA on my list for those reasons. I think with RGIII on the roster, we could see the AAA of 2010. Who can forget the 2011 Seattle TD - our longest TD reception of the year.

I hate leaving AAA off my list, but you have seen my reasons for AR and BB.

Thanks!

skinpride1 wrote:Sorry i know the little guy fights hard and trust me Rudy is one of my favorite movies but the little guy is not full time WR material. plug him in for gadgets plays...yes, few Wr plays here and there yes...Full time...NO.

No 6th or 7th WR is a full time guy.

Brandon Banks Itching for More Opportunities

The video shows the poor technique by Brandon, but it also shows some very poor thrown balls by Rex.

I will admit that I was wrong on that first deep pass to Banks. I saw Banks about to go by the defender. The defender put an arm bar on Banks, but then Banks adjusted back to the underthrown ball, so to
CKR and CH1, I stand corrected.

The Almost Forgotten Receiver

Terrence Austin - The 2010 seventh-round pick has played in 18 games — mostly on special teams — over the past two seasons. He’s playing less in practices this season than he did in the past two years because he is Santana Moss’ sole backup as a slot receiver, and Moss has been getting most of the reps at a position he’s suddenly playing exclusively. Austin got fewer opportunities to make plays in the game than Brandon Banks and Aldrick Robinson, who he’s battling with for a roster spot. He could benefit from a strong close to camp.