CanesSkins26 wrote:I can't disagree with any of that. I'm just frustrated with the inability to find a long-term replacement. I'm sure McNabb will play well (here), but we need to find a long-term solution at the position. We haven't had that in a LONG time.
I agree. But we need to make disciplined choices, not hasty ones. Shanahan may not have won a Super Bowl w/o Elway, but Elway didn't win one w/o Shanahan either. You need an entire team. As I pointed out we could use a #1 or a #2 on a QB who sucks and then we don't have McNabb or the pick and we're even worse off.
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CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.
Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.
So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.
2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.
2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.
2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope. He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.
2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.
2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.
2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.
So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?
Good data Fleetus. And those guys as I pointed out weren't picked by teams who had to have an OL and were going to take the best one no matter how worthy they were, or weren't. We could be picking a guy who shouldn't go until mid second round since we'd be locked into the position.
I'll take it a step further. How about the most recent QB's of the 2nd round, to make this a more specific 2nd round QB vs. McNabb comparison.
2009 Pat White - Dolphins - was their backup QB and played some wildcat formations for them. Doesn't look like he'll be much more than a role player though.
2008 Brian Brohm - As a rookie, he was the third quarterback on the depth chart in GB. Placed on the practice squad in 2009. Buffalo signed him off the GB P.Squad. Bills are still looking for a QB though.
Chand Henne - is the Dolphins starter as of last year. So he sat a year, then began to take over. he looks good and could develop into a top 15 QB in the NFL. decent pick. 2007 Kevin Kolb - Stay tuned
John Beck - man Miami sure loves 2nd round QB's! He was the 3rd string QB most of his time until released last year. Baltimore signed him where he I think he is still a 3rd stringer.
Drew Stanton - He's been the 3rd stringer most of the time, although there was a period where he was elevated to 2nd string behind the great Dan Orlovsky He is still with the Lions, I think.
2006 Kellen Clemens - backed up Pennington, Favre and Sanchez in NY for several years. He started 8 games in 2007 and went 3-5. Is a free agent looking for a job right now I believe.
Tavaris Jackson - had a very sporadic time as starter in Minnesota. Was a backup to Favre. Vikings have made a 3rd round tender to Jackson this off season.
Again, there are some decent players here. Would you pass up these QB's in the draft to get McNabb? I would again in a heart beat. and I love building through the draft. But you have to know what it is your expectations for the draft are. You also can't muck around with the QB position. It is a severe crapshoot finding a decent QB in the draft.
Matt Shaub was drafted in the 2nd round.
3rd.
And that was back in 2004 and he sat for three seasons behind Vick in Atlanta.
Andre Carter wrote:Damn man, you know your football.
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
Some QBs can make a bad line look good (exhibit 1 - P Manning, exhibit 2 - K Warner), unfortunately McNabb isn't one of them. He doesn't have the knack of making a bad line look horrendous that JC does, but McNabb will get sack often.
But what McNabb does know how to do is make below average WR (Pinkston, Thrash, Freddie Mitchell) look good. I expect Thomas and Kelley to have their best years by far and Moss to have a (Desean who? type season)
By the way if McNabb, Moss, and Calvin Johnson all stay healthy I guarantee Moss will have a better season than Johnson!
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brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
Look I am certain JC could have done a better job behind a better oline.
However I still think Mcnabb would be far better off behind a better Oline.
JC has been through a lot here in D.C. The damage may already be done. Some guys never recover from such situations JC has been through.
Is anyone else really excited about this upcoming season? I seem to be drinking the kool-aid really early this year. The Shanny's and Allen have got me fired up!
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
Some QBs can make a bad line look good (exhibit 1 - P Manning, exhibit 2 - K Warner), unfortunately McNabb isn't one of them. He doesn't have the knack of making a bad line look horrendous that JC does, but McNabb will get sack often.
But what McNabb does know how to do is make below average WR (Pinkston, Thrash, Freddie Mitchell) look good. I expect Thomas and Kelley to have their best years by far and Moss to have a (Desean who? type season)
By the way if McNabb, Moss, and Calvin Johnson all stay healthy I guarantee Moss will have a better season than Johnson!
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
Some QBs can make a bad line look good (exhibit 1 - P Manning, exhibit 2 - K Warner), unfortunately McNabb isn't one of them. He doesn't have the knack of making a bad line look horrendous that JC does, but McNabb will get sack often.
But what McNabb does know how to do is make below average WR (Pinkston, Thrash, Freddie Mitchell) look good. I expect Thomas and Kelley to have their best years by far and Moss to have a (Desean who? type season)
By the way if McNabb, Moss, and Calvin Johnson all stay healthy I guarantee Moss will have a better season than Johnson!
I'll take that bet
You think McNabb to Moss is a better deal than Stafford to Johnson? Johnson is a freak of nature, and he's actually got a QB, now with a year under hsi belt. Watch out for Detriot this year. They've been aggressive in FA and they will be better, especially with Stafford gaining experience.
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What a useless piece of propagandist rhetoric that is.
I think that Stafford and Johnson are going to be a great combo and I think that's great BUT I'm also fairly sure that Mike Shanahan is going to try and get McNabb all the support he can get from the offensive line perspective - one thing for sure is that the offensive line will be upgraded from the debacle that was seen last season
The other factor is that this offense will be led on the field by McNabb and when you couple that with the improved play from the O line (Mike Shanahan will ensure this) and the game planning and play calling of Kyle Shanahan, I think we are entitled to think that the offense here is going to be a huge improvement over last season
I am not projecting anything more than a 8-8 or 9-7 season but I do expect this franchise to be a lot better off because of all the improvements we are seeing from the FO and the addition of a great QB
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
Kaz is just having a lot of fun lately - are you off your meds, or what?
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
VetSkinsFan wrote:And having an infinitely better line and someone who actually KNOWS how to call plays beyond the LoS for the whole year.
JC has zero accuracy on his deep ball. Moss hasn't been hit in stride since 2005. Your point is well taken but the fact of the matter is that JC is not a good QB. He's a backup.
VetSkinsFan wrote:And having an infinitely better line and someone who actually KNOWS how to call plays beyond the LoS for the whole year.
JC has zero accuracy on his deep ball. Moss hasn't been hit in stride since 2005. Your point is well taken but the fact of the matter is that JC is not a good QB. He's a backup.
HOPEFULLY the other teams don't know this - we are trying to get a 4th round pick for him
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
VetSkinsFan wrote:And having an infinitely better line and someone who actually KNOWS how to call plays beyond the LoS for the whole year.
JC has zero accuracy on his deep ball. Moss hasn't been hit in stride since 2005. Your point is well taken but the fact of the matter is that JC is not a good QB. He's a backup.
Hey CLL... to further prove your point wasn't it Brunell and Moss that had better chemistry? Cause we all remember what they did together against the cows that one year.
brad7686 wrote:I just want to say that its not like our receivers are secretly Calvin Johnson, and JC made them look bad. They may improve with McNabb, but if the protection doesn't improve, and if they don't improve, its not like we have a great receiving corps. NOBODY gets away with as much on this team as they do. Nobody asks them to prove anything, and nobody is brought in to push them for playing time either. I would move next year's first for Marshall just to see what we have. It may be interesting to bring T.O. in on the cheap and see if they can beat him out.
With no time for JC to throw. How can you blame that on the receivers. The truth is we wont know how good the receivers are until we get a decent Oline to give the receivers time to get open. Mcnabb should be able to deliver the ball to our receivers and we will see if they can get open or catch the ball.
Well if we can blame no time on the qb, why not the receivers too? Why don't we just keep playing the blame game without ever addressing the line? Maybe McNabb can get in on the action next year, and CP, and LJ, and fast willie.
Some QBs can make a bad line look good (exhibit 1 - P Manning, exhibit 2 - K Warner), unfortunately McNabb isn't one of them. He doesn't have the knack of making a bad line look horrendous that JC does, but McNabb will get sack often.
But what McNabb does know how to do is make below average WR (Pinkston, Thrash, Freddie Mitchell) look good. I expect Thomas and Kelley to have their best years by far and Moss to have a (Desean who? type season)
By the way if McNabb, Moss, and Calvin Johnson all stay healthy I guarantee Moss will have a better season than Johnson!
I'll take that bet
You think McNabb to Moss is a better deal than Stafford to Johnson? Johnson is a freak of nature, and he's actually got a QB, now with a year under hsi belt. Watch out for Detriot this year. They've been aggressive in FA and they will be better, especially with Stafford gaining experience.
Shoot, I'd take Grossman to Calvin over McNabb to Moss
Stay tuned 
