The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsFreak wrote:

Dave Allen wrote:I was not talking about the title. I was talking about a GM that knows football. Do you think VC is that guy?

Dave... it was a joke. I figured most knew what Larry Michael looked like.

Those of us outside the D.C. area are spared Larry Michael. Does he still do the Sports Machine?

SnyderSucks wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Dave Allen wrote:I was not talking about the title. I was talking about a GM that knows football. Do you think VC is that guy?

Dave... it was a joke. I figured most knew what Larry Michael looked like.

Those of us outside the D.C. area are spared Larry Michael. Does he still do the Sports Machine?

Is that a joke? George Michael does the Sports Machine. Larry Michael is on Redskins.com damn near everyday and commentates their games on the radio.

SnyderSucks wrote:On almost every other point, Snyder gets a d or below. Ensuring a good fan experience? nope.

What's a good fan experience? What's your complaint...that it's too expensive? The ticket prices are 11th in the league, and beer etc. is as expensive as it is elsewhere (with DC being one of the most affluent cities to host an NFL franchise).

Supporting your players? Nope.

Seriously? Really? He's almost too supportive/buddy-buddy with his players. Portis and him are friends. After Sean Taylor died, look what he did (flew everyone down to the funeral, etc.)

Plus he supports them by paying their checks.

What else should he do?

Creating an environment in which top coaches want to work for you? Nope.

Ok. Let's look at his hires.

Marty Schottenheimer (top coach)
Steve Spurrier (coach that many in the NFL wanted to hire but couldn't)
Joe Gibbs (top coach).

Yeah, so he hired Zorn..and 3 top coaching candidates. He sure has hired the no-names, hasn't he?

I'd address the rest of your little tidbits, but frankly, I'm bored with your hyperbole.

PulpExposure wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:On almost every other point, Snyder gets a d or below. Ensuring a good fan experience? nope.

What's a good fan experience? What's your complaint...that it's too expensive? The ticket prices are 11th in the league, and beer etc. is as expensive as it is elsewhere (with DC being one of the most affluent cities to host an NFL franchise).

This has been discussed, rehashed, and beaten to death. Snyder's track record is much more than superficial stats like ticket prices. I don't think it's controversial to say that Skins fans, as fans, have been treated poorly under Snyder's ownership.

I agree with your other two points, though. . .

Pulp wrote:

Supporting your players? Nope.

Seriously? Really? He's almost too supportive/buddy-buddy with his players. Portis and him are friends. After Sean Taylor died, look what he did (flew everyone down to the funeral, etc.)

Plus he supports them by paying their checks.

What else should he do?

Creating an environment in which top coaches want to work for you? Nope.

Ok. Let's look at his hires.

Marty Schottenheimer (top coach)
Steve Spurrier (coach that many in the NFL wanted to hire but couldn't)
Joe Gibbs (top coach).

Yeah, so he hired Zorn..and 3 top coaching candidates. He sure has hired the no-names, hasn't he?

I'd address the rest of your little tidbits, but frankly, I'm bored with your hyperbole.

PulpExposure wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:On almost every other point, Snyder gets a d or below. Ensuring a good fan experience? nope.

What's a good fan experience? What's your complaint...that it's too expensive? The ticket prices are 11th in the league, and beer etc. is as expensive as it is elsewhere (with DC being one of the most affluent cities to host an NFL franchise).

Supporting your players? Nope.

Seriously? Really? He's almost too supportive/buddy-buddy with his players. Portis and him are friends. After Sean Taylor died, look what he did (flew everyone down to the funeral, etc.)

Plus he supports them by paying their checks.

What else should he do?

Creating an environment in which top coaches want to work for you? Nope.

Ok. Let's look at his hires.

Marty Schottenheimer (top coach)
Steve Spurrier (coach that many in the NFL wanted to hire but couldn't)
Joe Gibbs (top coach).

Yeah, so he hired Zorn..and 3 top coaching candidates. He sure has hired the no-names, hasn't he?

I'd address the rest of your little tidbits, but frankly, I'm bored with your hyperbole.

Fan experience. Not that it's too expensive. Not allowing the outside vendors like the old stadium, and like every other stadium I've ever been to. Obstructed view seats. Adding as many seats as he did means longer lines for everyone at the restrooms and for food because the stadium wasn't built for that many seats.

Supporting your players. He does get huge credit for how he handled Sean Taylor. Ask Jason Campbell how supported he feels. Or Arrington, who gave back money to get out. Or Antonio Pierce. L. Coles couldn't get out of here fast enough. Or Jason Taylor who gave up $8 million to get away from here. He traded Champ Bailey (getting Portis in return, yes) rather than give him a second contract. Yeah, he's friends with Portis but he's got a reputation for paying outside players (like Portis, B. Lloyd, Archuletta, Randle El, Fletcher, Washington) and not those drafted by the team(Bailey, Pierce, Ryan Clark, Dockery, Smoot). His friendship with Portis also empowers Portis to defy the coach, which is rumored to have happened on more than one occasion. He let Dockery and Smoot get to free agency rather than extending them early at a lower cost than their eventual FA contracts. The same is going to happen soon with Campbell, Rogers, and McIntosh.

You bring up Schottenheimer to support your idea that coaches like it here? Schottenheimer came when people were saying working for Snyder would be a disaster, and he got fired after one season. Spurrier came to play golf and cash a check. Gibbs would never have worked for Snyder if not for a previous relationship with the team, and he came back to coaching because his son wanted to try it.

The last time Snyder tried to hire a coach, all the top candidates either refused an interview or turned him down. Look at how he treated Gregg Williams when Gibbs left. Any doubt that impacted the other coaches decsions about accepting the job? If he gets a top candidate again, it will only be because he offered the largest check, not because he has a reputation as a good boss.


Where's the hyperbole in any of that?

SkinsFreak wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:

SkinsFreak wrote:

Dave Allen wrote:I was not talking about the title. I was talking about a GM that knows football. Do you think VC is that guy?

Dave... it was a joke. I figured most knew what Larry Michael looked like.

Those of us outside the D.C. area are spared Larry Michael. Does he still do the Sports Machine?

Is that a joke? George Michael does the Sports Machine. Larry Michael is on Redskins.com damn near everyday and commentates their games on the radio.

Got them confused. It was still Sonny, Sam, and Frank on the radio the last time I lived there. Now I only get back once a year or so, and usually can't pick up the new network on the way to the games.

SnyderSucks wrote:Fan experience. Not that it's too expensive. Not allowing the outside vendors like the old stadium, and like every other stadium I've ever been to. Obstructed view seats. Adding as many seats as he did means longer lines for everyone at the restrooms and for food because the stadium wasn't built for that many seats.

Listen, I'll agree with the obstructed view seats; I think that's horrible.

However, I also think he's saddled with a really crappy stadium, and if it made any financial sense whatsoever (and unfortunately, it doesn't), he'd build a different one.

Supporting your players. He does get huge credit for how he handled Sean Taylor. Ask Jason Campbell how supported he feels.

That's business. If Campbell played like a star QB, he wouldn't have had to undergo this offseason's shenanigans.

Or Arrington, who gave back money to get out.

Arrington was essentially at that point a team cancer. He didn't get along with either Gregg Williams and Joe Gibbs. Seriously...he didn't get along with Joe Gibbs? What the hell. Arrington plain and simple thought he was the big man on campus, and he simply couldn't take being ordered around by Joe Gibbs.

Or Antonio Pierce.

They offered Pierce a good contract; they just weren't willing to pay him more than Marcus Washington. The Giants offered him a better contract. Guess what? That happens.

L. Coles couldn't get out of here fast enough.

L. Coles refused to get surgery on his injured toe, and whined that he wasn't getting the ball thrown to him enough. Even though NFL stats showed he was thrown to the 3rd most of any WR. I'm not sad we lost that whiny douchebag for Santana Moss. That's a win any day of the week for us.

Or Jason Taylor who gave up $8 million to get away from here.

Taylor didn't want to be far from home; that's why he gave up the 8 million. Who is he playing with now, by the way? Miami...because he wanted to be back near his home.

He traded Champ Bailey (getting Portis in return, yes) rather than give him a second contract.

Bailey wanted monster money; you remember the contract he wanted? 9 million a year. Bailey isn't worth that...no corner (barring Deion Sanders or another TD-scoring corner) is worth that.

Yeah, he's friends with Portis but he's got a reputation for paying outside players (like Portis, B. Lloyd, Archuletta, Randle El, Fletcher, Washington) and not those drafted by the team(Bailey, Pierce, Ryan Clark, Dockery, Smoot).

He paid Smoot and Dockery, didn't he? He just didn't want to match their crazy contracts that...were so crazy, they ended up getting cut out of them anyways.

He constantly re-ups old Vet Redskins (see Samuels, and see Jansen, who had so many reworked contracts with guarenteed money that he soon underplayed his cost).

FYI - Neither Clark nor Pierce were drafted by the Redskins.

His friendship with Portis also empowers Portis to defy the coach, which is rumored to have happened on more than one occasion.

That goes exactly to what I said earlier. Too much support.

He let Dockery and Smoot get to free agency rather than extending them early at a lower cost than their eventual FA contracts. The same is going to happen soon with Campbell, Rogers, and McIntosh.

We'll see.

You bring up Schottenheimer to support your idea that coaches like it here? Schottenheimer came when people were saying working for Snyder would be a disaster, and he got fired after one season. Spurrier came to play golf and cash a check. Gibbs would never have worked for Snyder if not for a previous relationship with the team, and he came back to coaching because his son wanted to try it.

But, the plain truth is...he still hired Schottenheimer, he still hired Spurrier, and he still hired Gibbs, didn't he? You said:

Creating an environment in which top coaches want to work for you? Nope.

Plain and simple, he's gotten top coaches to work for him.

The last time Snyder tried to hire a coach, all the top candidates either refused an interview or turned him down.

Who? Cowher is the only one I can think of, and he was certainly not ready to coach yet...hell, he's not even coaching now.

Look at how he treated Gregg Williams when Gibbs left. Any doubt that impacted the other coaches decsions about accepting the job?

I don't get why everyone thinks Gregg Williams would have been a shoe-in. He was an absolute disaster of an NFL head coach in Buffalo, with a career winning percentage lower than Steve Spurrier's. Perhaps Snyder interviewed him and thought he wasn't good enough. Maybe that had something to do with it?

If he gets a top candidate again, it will only be because he offered the largest check, not because he has a reputation as a good boss.

Duh. The top candidates will all demand the largest check from whomever signs them. That's pretty much a no-brainer.

PulpExposure wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Fan experience. Not that it's too expensive. Not allowing the outside vendors like the old stadium, and like every other stadium I've ever been to. Obstructed view seats. Adding as many seats as he did means longer lines for everyone at the restrooms and for food because the stadium wasn't built for that many seats.

Listen, I'll agree with the obstructed view seats; I think that's horrible.

However, I also think he's saddled with a really crappy stadium, and if it made any financial sense whatsoever (and unfortunately, it doesn't), he'd build a different one.

Supporting your players. He does get huge credit for how he handled Sean Taylor. Ask Jason Campbell how supported he feels.

That's business. If Campbell played like a star QB, he wouldn't have had to undergo this offseason's shenanigans.

Or Arrington, who gave back money to get out.

Arrington was essentially at that point a team cancer. He didn't get along with either Gregg Williams and Joe Gibbs. Seriously...he didn't get along with Joe Gibbs? What the hell. Arrington plain and simple thought he was the big man on campus, and he simply couldn't take being ordered around by Joe Gibbs.

Or Antonio Pierce.

They offered Pierce a good contract; they just weren't willing to pay him more than Marcus Washington. The Giants offered him a better contract. Guess what? That happens.

L. Coles couldn't get out of here fast enough.

L. Coles refused to get surgery on his injured toe, and whined that he wasn't getting the ball thrown to him enough. Even though NFL stats showed he was thrown to the 3rd most of any WR. I'm not sad we lost that whiny douchebag for Santana Moss. That's a win any day of the week for us.

Or Jason Taylor who gave up $8 million to get away from here.

Taylor didn't want to be far from home; that's why he gave up the 8 million. Who is he playing with now, by the way? Miami...because he wanted to be back near his home.

He traded Champ Bailey (getting Portis in return, yes) rather than give him a second contract.

Bailey wanted monster money; you remember the contract he wanted? 9 million a year. Bailey isn't worth that...no corner (barring Deion Sanders or another TD-scoring corner) is worth that.

Yeah, he's friends with Portis but he's got a reputation for paying outside players (like Portis, B. Lloyd, Archuletta, Randle El, Fletcher, Washington) and not those drafted by the team(Bailey, Pierce, Ryan Clark, Dockery, Smoot).

He paid Smoot and Dockery, didn't he? He just didn't want to match their crazy contracts that...were so crazy, they ended up getting cut out of them anyways.

He constantly re-ups old Vet Redskins (see Samuels, and see Jansen, who had so many reworked contracts with guarenteed money that he soon underplayed his cost).

FYI - Neither Clark nor Pierce were drafted by the Redskins.

His friendship with Portis also empowers Portis to defy the coach, which is rumored to have happened on more than one occasion.

That goes exactly to what I said earlier. Too much support.

He let Dockery and Smoot get to free agency rather than extending them early at a lower cost than their eventual FA contracts. The same is going to happen soon with Campbell, Rogers, and McIntosh.

We'll see.

You bring up Schottenheimer to support your idea that coaches like it here? Schottenheimer came when people were saying working for Snyder would be a disaster, and he got fired after one season. Spurrier came to play golf and cash a check. Gibbs would never have worked for Snyder if not for a previous relationship with the team, and he came back to coaching because his son wanted to try it.

But, the plain truth is...he still hired Schottenheimer, he still hired Spurrier, and he still hired Gibbs, didn't he? You said:

Creating an environment in which top coaches want to work for you? Nope.

Plain and simple, he's gotten top coaches to work for him.

The last time Snyder tried to hire a coach, all the top candidates either refused an interview or turned him down.

Who? Cowher is the only one I can think of, and he was certainly not ready to coach yet...hell, he's not even coaching now.

Look at how he treated Gregg Williams when Gibbs left. Any doubt that impacted the other coaches decsions about accepting the job?

I don't get why everyone thinks Gregg Williams would have been a shoe-in. He was an absolute disaster of an NFL head coach in Buffalo, with a career winning percentage lower than Steve Spurrier's. Perhaps Snyder interviewed him and thought he wasn't good enough. Maybe that had something to do with it?

If he gets a top candidate again, it will only be because he offered the largest check, not because he has a reputation as a good boss.

Duh. The top candidates will all demand the largest check from whomever signs them. That's pretty much a no-brainer.

I still don't see any hyperbole.

On the pay, Snyder has to overpay to get people.

On Gregg Williams, the problem wasn't that he didn't get the job, but the manner in which Snyder left him twisting in the wind after interviewing him four times until he finally got mad and withdrew from consideration. Do you remember the dirty rumors that Williams had betrayed Gibbs? Take a guess where they originated.

Jim Mora Jr. also withdrew his name.

Steve Spagnolo also withdrew his name.

Others who interviewed: Jim Schwartz, Ron Meeks, Fassell, and Ron Meeks. Of those, only Fassell was ever seriously in the running. So, aside from Zorn, three of the four candidates seriously considered withdrew their names. The fourth resulted in protests by the fan base.

On the player contracts, I never said he should have paid what they got in free agency. They never should have gotten that far - he should have extended them prior to them achieving free agency. Bringing up Samuels and Jansen only re-inforces the point that players that the redskins develop internally (including Clark and Pierce), don't get second contracts. Since the Samuels/Arrington draft, who were both given second contracts, only Betts and ey have been given a second contract above the minimum. Two in 8 seasons. Meanwhile, as chronicled, numerous good players, including at least two that started for Super Bowl winners, have been allowed to walk. A large multiple of 2 have been brought in from the outside and given record setting contracts. You can bring up all the excuses you want, but good teams resign their good young players before they reach free agency and get offered a ridiculous contract.

I thought that with the opening of training Camp, it would be appropriate to hear a response to the challenge?

Redskin in Canada wrote:The RECORD speaks for itself.

If we all put aside speculation and our own personal analysis, it really comes to the following:

The Redskins will continue this season with a record of mediocrity and prove the point on our side of the argument

Or ...

The Redskins will have a winning season, make the playoffs and have a good run at them. And those perennial optmists will be proven right.

I am willing to admit that I was wrong if the Skins prove me and others on our side the mistake of our interpretation. So far, we have about a decade of record to prove our point.

I challenge the posters on the opposite side of the argument to be honest enough to concede our argument if we add another mediocre season to the list.

That's it. Who is willing to accept the challenge?

The proof is on the ... RECORD.

c'mon guys - this is going to be a fantastic season - we have upgraded both lines and the QB is looking at a huge payday if he does well - let's hear some support from the faithful

Sorry, SJ, haven't you figured out that we're doomed? I mean, look at our roster. The most sought after defensive player in the game to head up with a guy who has the most tackles this DECADE, along with the best blocking RB in the game. I mean, just at those three positions ALONE, we're doomed...

au contraire my friend - the offensive line is going to be more dominating than we have seen here for some time

I have it on good authority

SnyderSucks wrote:Jim Mora Jr. also withdrew his name.

Steve Spagnolo also withdrew his name.

Hint. Those aren't "top candidates."

Others who interviewed: Jim Schwartz, Ron Meeks, Fassell, and Ron Meeks. Of those, only Fassell was ever seriously in the running. So, aside from Zorn, three of the four candidates seriously considered withdrew their names. The fourth resulted in protests by the fan base.

Please provide cites supporting the bolded statement above; please provide support as to which coaches were "seriously considered" by the front office. Because I have no idea who was seriously considered, and as far as I can tell, no one aside from Cerrato and Snyder do, either. Perhaps you have a better source you'd care to share?

Since the Samuels/Arrington draft, who were both given second contracts, only Betts and ey have been given a second contract above the minimum. Two in 8 seasons.

Lol, that's so freaking disingenious. I know you're smarter than that.

The bulk of the players are still on their rookie contracts (draft classes 2005 onwards), leaving us the 2004 and 2003 drafts to consider. In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been); the other draft picks were Jim Molinaro and Mark Wilson. In 2003, our draft picks were Taylor Jacobs, Derrick Dockery, and Gibran Hamden.

As far as I can tell, the reason why the other players weren't resigned is because they were horrible draft picks. What? You wanted the Skins to resign Taylor Jacobs?

I also wanted to take a moment to address the Carlos Rogers/Jason Campbell/Rocky McIntosh assertion you listed above.

Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell haven't been resigned because no one is sure what the worth of either player; Carlos can be a star...but he's got stonehands (though apparently he wants to be paid like a star CB). Campbell, no one knows what he's worth (though many people on this very board think he's a total bum). And as for Rocky McIntosh, on April 23, 2009:

The Redskins have entered long-term contract negotiations with OLB Rocky McIntosh, according to his agent.

With respect to Dockery, they tried to sign him to a reasonable contract before his contract was up, but he wanted to explore free agency. And it was only in his last, contract year that he stopped being "False Start Derrick"; it didn't make sense to commit to him at that time (and most Redskins fans thought he was a bust until that contract year).

In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been);

Says who??? You have no way of knowing...He liked GW an awful lot and if GW wasn't here I'm not sure he would have resigns??

DEHog wrote:In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been);

Says who??? You have no way of knowing...He liked GW an awful lot and if GW wasn't here I'm not sure he would have resigns??

You've got to believe the team would have tried to tie him to a long term deal before his old one ran out. He may have decided he wanted out, a la Champ Bailey, but they would have at least tried to keep him.

Deadskins wrote:

DEHog wrote:In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been);

Says who??? You have no way of knowing...He liked GW an awful lot and if GW wasn't here I'm not sure he would have resigns??

You've got to believe the team would have tried to tie him to a long term deal before his old one ran out. He may have decided he wanted out, a la Champ Bailey, but they would have at least tried to keep him.

One would think so...but they never tried to do that with Champ until it was to late???

I think they did try to do it with Champ, but he refused to negotiate.

PulpExposure wrote:Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell haven't been resigned because no one is sure what the worth of either player; Carlos can be a star...but he's got stonehands (though apparently he wants to be paid like a star CB). Campbell, no one knows what he's worth (though many people on this very board think he's a total bum).

I'd also like to point out that the lack of a new CBA is also a factor in not re-signing these guys. San Diego hasn't re-signed Phillip Rivers for this very reason. Much like Campbell and Rogers, Rivers is also entering his contract season. They were talking about this last night on Total Access. I don't recall the specifics, but it has something to do with these players not being able to become unrestricted free agents per the terms of the league rules in a year with no CBA. I don't have time now, but later I'll post some of the restrictions, which happen to be many, on teams when playing without the new CBA.

DEHog wrote:In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been);

Says who??? You have no way of knowing...He liked GW an awful lot and if GW wasn't here I'm not sure he would have resigns??

Are you seriously trying to make this argument?

Why argue a point you have no freakin way to prove or disprove? Just b/c you can? wow...I can't wait until the season starts so garbage like this drops to a minimum.

IMO, I think that the FO would've given him anything under the sun to keep area 51 together. To think anything otherwise of the team that you're an alleged fan for is just silly.

VetSkinsFan wrote:

DEHog wrote:In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been);

Says who??? You have no way of knowing...He liked GW an awful lot and if GW wasn't here I'm not sure he would have resigns??

Are you seriously trying to make this argument?

Why argue a point you have no freakin way to prove or disprove? Just b/c you can? wow...I can't wait until the season starts so garbage like this drops to a minimum.

IMO, I think that the FO would've given him anything under the sun to keep area 51 together. To think anything otherwise of the team that you're an alleged fan for is just silly.

I agree with you we don't know...Pulp made a point to say he would have...my point is the same as yours we don't know that.

Funny...you didn't jump all over Pulp when he did the same thing to SS

PulpExposure wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:Jim Mora Jr. also withdrew his name.

Steve Spagnolo also withdrew his name.

Hint. Those aren't "top candidates."

Others who interviewed: Jim Schwartz, Ron Meeks, Fassell, and Ron Meeks. Of those, only Fassell was ever seriously in the running. So, aside from Zorn, three of the four candidates seriously considered withdrew their names. The fourth resulted in protests by the fan base.

Please provide cites supporting the bolded statement above; please provide support as to which coaches were "seriously considered" by the front office. Because I have no idea who was seriously considered, and as far as I can tell, no one aside from Cerrato and Snyder do, either. Perhaps you have a better source you'd care to share?

Since the Samuels/Arrington draft, who were both given second contracts, only Betts and ey have been given a second contract above the minimum. Two in 8 seasons.

Lol, that's so freaking disingenious. I know you're smarter than that.

The bulk of the players are still on their rookie contracts (draft classes 2005 onwards), leaving us the 2004 and 2003 drafts to consider. In 2004, Sean Taylor was the first, and wasn't resigned (though he would have been); the other draft picks were Jim Molinaro and Mark Wilson. In 2003, our draft picks were Taylor Jacobs, Derrick Dockery, and Gibran Hamden.

As far as I can tell, the reason why the other players weren't resigned is because they were horrible draft picks. What? You wanted the Skins to resign Taylor Jacobs?

I also wanted to take a moment to address the Carlos Rogers/Jason Campbell/Rocky McIntosh assertion you listed above.

Carlos Rogers and Jason Campbell haven't been resigned because no one is sure what the worth of either player; Carlos can be a star...but he's got stonehands (though apparently he wants to be paid like a star CB). Campbell, no one knows what he's worth (though many people on this very board think he's a total bum). And as for Rocky McIntosh, on April 23, 2009:

The Redskins have entered long-term contract negotiations with OLB Rocky McIntosh, according to his agent.

With respect to Dockery, they tried to sign him to a reasonable contract before his contract was up, but he wanted to explore free agency. And it was only in his last, contract year that he stopped being "False Start Derrick"; it didn't make sense to commit to him at that time (and most Redskins fans thought he was a bust until that contract year).

Of the "top candidates" those were the coaches they interviewed. If you don't consider the people they interviewed top candidates, then you just proved my point.

I'm sorry that you can't remember all the way back to last year, so here is a link that thoroughly discusses the entire timeline and literally has about 100 supporting citiations. It includes links to stories by places like the Washington Post in which the Redskins are considered a "laughingstock" by those around the league and that if Snyder has a plan no one can tell what it is.

http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2008/04/chro ... coach.html

On my supposed disingenious post about retaining players, I've already named several that could have been retained. Clark, Smoot, Dockery, Bailey and Pierce all deserved contracts. You could also argue for players like Rod Gardner who had 51 catches his last season here and averaged almost 57 while in Washington. We'd love to see a #2 catch 50 now. Smart teams, like Philadelphia, sign players to extensions before their final seasons and the player is close to FA.

Please provide the poll that shows "most" fans thought Dockery was a bust and that he had a nickname about false starting. I don't have any recollection of him ever committing a penalty.

SnyderSucks wrote:I don't have any recollection of him ever committing a penalty.

I remember bunches. His first play, in fact, he knocked the ball out of the QB's hands down near the goal line. While this particular incident was not a penalty, it does illustrate what was a rough rookie campaign.

Also several of the players you mentioned were offered contract extensions, they just chose to go elsewhere. You can't force a guy to sign who wants out, or wants to test the FA waters for a big payday. Sometimes the wisest move is to let a guy move on. Dockery is a perfect example, as is smoot. The fact that they chose to come back only further disproves your assertion.

Deadskins wrote:

SnyderSucks wrote:I don't have any recollection of him ever committing a penalty.

I remember bunches. His first play, in fact, he knocked the ball out of the QB's hands down near the goal line. While this particular incident was not a penalty, it does illustrate what was a rough rookie campaign.

Also several of the players you mentioned were offered contract extensions, they just chose to go elsewhere. You can't force a guy to sign who wants out, or wants to test the FA waters for a big payday. Sometimes the wisest move is to let a guy move on. Dockery is a perfect example, as is smoot. The fact that they chose to come back only further disproves your assertion.

The no memory of penalties was sarcasm about his lack of memory about last year. Although, I remember Brad Badger as the guy with the "False Start" nickname.

I would never argue the team should have matched the contracts Smoot and Dockery received. The point is that the players that were offered a contract were not offered them until after the season ended. At that point, with the risk of injury over, of course they opted for free agency. If you want to retain your players, you have to extend them before their contract ends and someone overpays to get them. If you sign them before the contract is up, they usually sign for less in order to secure the guarantee in the new contract before they risk injury and getting nothing.

If memory serves, Champ was traded in the final year of his contract. He wanted out of DC (word was his wife gave him an ultimatum, because of a local girlfriend), and was not going to re-sign no matter what.

SnyderSucks wrote:I'm sorry that you can't remember all the way back to last year, so here is a link that thoroughly discusses the entire timeline and literally has about 100 supporting citiations.

None of which support YOUR assertions. I want direct cites supporting YOUR assertions that coaches withdrew their names because they didn't want to work for Snyder. Please.

It includes links to stories by places like the Washington Post in which the Redskins are considered a "laughingstock" by those around the league and that if Snyder has a plan no one can tell what it is.

http://curlyr.blogspot.com/2008/04/chro ... coach.html

Lol. It's linking to LaCanfora's Redskins Insider. Come on now!

You could also argue for players like Rod Gardner who had 51 catches his last season here and averaged almost 57 while in Washington.

WHAT???? You wanted to keep 50/50? The guy who was so good he went on to that star-studded career after he left us? Oh right.

Good lord.

Deadskins wrote:If memory serves, Champ was traded in the final year of his contract. He wanted out of DC (word was his wife gave him an ultimatum, because of a local girlfriend), and was not going to re-sign no matter what.

SNYDER'S FAULT!