The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I predict we'll all die before this stupid thread dies.

I approve this message...

I think this diddy here encompasses the hopelessness and melancholy of the whole contract mess here.
https://youtu.be/8kfDCiHq4fU

This is not going to happen, is it.

Irn-Bru wrote:This is not going to happen, is it.

No, and I don't understand why anyone ever thought it was. $58MM 100% guaranteed over two years is more than Cousins is going to see out of any contract.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:This is not going to happen, is it.

No, and I don't understand why anyone ever thought it was. $58M, 100% guaranteed over two years is more than Cousins is going to see out of any contract.

Why would Cousins want to sign a long term deal here when he can get a lot of money to play for a team with a chance at post season success in the not too distant future
and, even more importantly
hopefully the idiots in charge here don't compound the mistakes already made by paying Cousins "market value" and not be able to fairly pay all the other players

same ole, same ole - wait till next season

It isn't going to happen because Dan Snyder has an aversion to stability. When he lets the best Redskin QB in 40 years get away that will it be it for me. Screw him!

40 years seems too much. I would place Cousins in the "Brad Johnson tier".

He's good, can be great, but needs everything to fall in place to win it all.

Nowhere near the fire of Theisman or the technical ability of Schroeder.

7 days to go - what a mess ... signing Cousins to a long term deal is a big mistake and not signing Cousins to a long term deal is a big mistake

the Redskins have really screwed this up - it will take years to get things straightened out here & it will not happen with Dan Snyder continuing to try and make things better

Never forget.

Washington’s decision not to increase its offer to Cousins in 2016 proved costly. League insiders said McCartney proposed a deal with an average of $19 million per season and $44 million in guaranteed money.

But the Redskins balked at such figures, and used the franchise tag.

riggofan wrote:Never forget.

Washington’s decision not to increase its offer to Cousins in 2016 proved costly. League insiders said McCartney proposed a deal with an average of $19 million per season and $44 million in guaranteed money.

But the Redskins balked at such figures, and used the franchise tag.

El Mexican wrote:40 years seems too much. I would place Cousins in the "Brad Johnson tier".

He's good, can be great, but needs everything to fall in place to win it all.

Nowhere near the fire of Theisman or the technical ability of Schroeder.

Wish he was in the Brad Johnson tier. Johnson was a leader no matter who his players were around him and early on didn't hesitate to run to move the chains. Johnson also won a Super Bowl.

woulda, coulda, shoulda - the Redskins cannot afford to sign the long term deal that Cousins has earned

we're basically not going anywhere without a plan ... there are basic requirements and it takes time to assemble the pieces

PLUS

we have an owner with an ego that refuses to accept that he doesn't have a clue and he can afford to continue to keep this franchise as one of the bottom 5 in the NFL

some look at the recent record and say things are not so bad - BS - this franchise is not highly regarded by knowledgeable NFL fans & media because of Dan Snyder

mastdark81 wrote:

El Mexican wrote:40 years seems too much. I would place Cousins in the "Brad Johnson tier".

He's good, can be great, but needs everything to fall in place to win it all.

Nowhere near the fire of Theisman or the technical ability of Schroeder.

Wish he was in the Brad Johnson tier. Johnson was a leader no matter who his players were around him and early on didn't hesitate to run to move the chains. Johnson also won a Super Bowl.

Now that you mentioned it, I agree.

You could say a lot of bad things about BJ, but never that he took losing easily (remember that 41-35 loss to Dallas at home?).

I've not seen that--yet--of Cousins.

Obviously Theisman and Schroeder are in a different league completely regarding their particular qualities as QBs.

This dance has hijacked the team. Get done with it already. It's neither good for Cousins nor the team.

Too many variables involved. One missed block and boom! You're out with a busted knee for a year and never return to your previous playing level.

Not go off on a tangent but can you imagine four years ago if someone told you that in 2017 Kirk Cousins would be in position to be the highest paid QB in the league and this would be the RGIII news?

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/20 ... iii-front/

Nothing is more valuable in the NFL than a talented quarterback, and yet there’s a quarterback who has been chosen to a Pro Bowl, has led a team to the playoffs, is just 27 years old, and can’t get so much as a sniff from any team in the league: Robert Griffin III.

Crazy times.

SkinsJock wrote:woulda, coulda, shoulda

I do know what you're saying man, but its still infuriating. This situation was not only completely predictable but tons of fans and media people were out there warning this would happen - including Scot McCloughan. Its not just one of those hindsight things like, "Damn, we should have grabbed Aaron Rodgers in that one draft".

I guarantee you I can pull up posts on this board from a year ago that predicted exactly how the Cousins contract would play out as a result of that stupid franchise tag.

Yes, it would have been a gamble to sign him to that money at the time, but signing him was always the smartest move when you looked at risk/reward and what the likeliest outcome was.

I still think more than anything the Redskins FO was embarrassed by the big whiff on Griffin and didn't have the stones to gamble again, didn't want to risk looking stupid. That's still the case IMHO.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:woulda, coulda, shoulda

I do know what you're saying man, but its still infuriating. This situation was not only completely predictable but tons of fans and media people were out there warning this would happen - including Scot McCloughan. Its not just one of those hindsight things like, "Damn, we should have grabbed Aaron Rodgers in that one draft".

I guarantee you I can pull up posts on this board from a year ago that predicted exactly how the Cousins contract would play out as a result of that stupid franchise tag. Yes, it would have been a gamble to sign him to that money at the time, but signing him was always the smartest move when you looked at risk/reward and what the likeliest outcome was. I still think the Redskins FO was embarrassed by the big whiff on Griffin and didn't have the stones to gamble again, didn't want to risk looking stupid. That's still the case IMHO.

you are exactly right - There's no doubt about what we should have done - I just have serious doubts that the guys in charge will start making better decisions

the product on the field has not played to the level that one would expect from the coaches and players on the roster because there is no accountability from top to bottom

I used to start getting my hopes up in August and then reality hits towards the end of the season ... this idiot owner is a nemesis

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:woulda, coulda, shoulda

I do know what you're saying man, but its still infuriating. This situation was not only completely predictable but tons of fans and media people were out there warning this would happen - including Scot McCloughan. Its not just one of those hindsight things like, "Damn, we should have grabbed Aaron Rodgers in that one draft".

I guarantee you I can pull up posts on this board from a year ago that predicted exactly how the Cousins contract would play out as a result of that stupid franchise tag.

Yes, it would have been a gamble to sign him to that money at the time, but signing him was always the smartest move when you looked at risk/reward and what the likeliest outcome was.

I still think more than anything the Redskins FO was embarrassed by the big whiff on Griffin and didn't have the stones to gamble again, didn't want to risk looking stupid. That's still the case IMHO.

I was one of the people on the fence. I didn't think he had shown enough at the time to justify a contract. Nothing has changed. I'm still on the fence and don't think he's shown enough to justify this contract.

Regular season stats don't impress me much. I need players who perform under pressure in the playoffs if they're setting a new bar for QB contracts.

Kirk Cousins doesn't or hasn't. I think this is his ceiling. Just because it's the best we've had in a long time doesn't mean he's a franchise QB.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I was one of the people on the fence. I didn't think he had shown enough at the time to justify a contract. Nothing has changed. I'm still on the fence and don't think he's shown enough to justify this contract.

Whether you think he's a good QB or not isn't really the question. We're going to end up paying him as much for two years on the franchise tag as we would have for a 4 year deal. And we have no leverage to keep him in 2018. The franchise tag was a dumb move.

I'm not trying to convince you that he's a good player or not. You're totally entitled to that opinion. I'm pretty confident though that a reliable, starting caliber QB would have been worth $19m/yr, $44m guaranteed. Two years later that's a bargain just like we all predicted.

Yep, this basically sums up this entire dance. It must be tiring for all the parts involved and I suspect it will end up with sour grapes.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I was one of the people on the fence. I didn't think he had shown enough at the time to justify a contract. Nothing has changed. I'm still on the fence and don't think he's shown enough to justify this contract.

Whether you think he's a good QB or not isn't really the question. We're going to end up paying him as much for two years on the franchise tag as we would have for a 4 year deal. And we have no leverage to keep him in 2018. The franchise tag was a dumb move.

I'm not trying to convince you that he's a good player or not. You're totally entitled to that opinion. I'm pretty confident though that a reliable, starting caliber QB would have been worth $19m/yr, $44m guaranteed. Two years later that's a bargain just like we all predicted.

Sure, in hindsight they should have done a four year deal, but at the time they didn't even know if Cousins would be starting the following season. They were also snakebitten by the RGIII fiasco and I'm sure the last thing Bruce Allen wanted to do was to admit Mike Shanahan's 4th round pick was a better QB than his 3 1sts and a 2nd QB. Yes, I think Bruce Allen is just exactly that shallow. He's an empty suit who only has that job because his father was George Allen.

I still think it would be a mistake to pay Kirk Cousins the highest (or one of the highest) QB salaries in the league based upon his performance. He's great in the regular season when there's no pressure. So what?

Cousins has earned the huge contract - not by his play at QB or his leadership but more because the FO did not think that he would become a good NFL QB

Cousins absolutely should get his money, I just hope that we don't give it to him - building a franchise around a franchise QB is a good way to go - Cousins is not that great

this FO and this owner do not have a clue and are going to continue to ensure that this franchise will not become a top 10 franchise again

the only way that we do not continue to be one of the worst teams in the NFL is for Snyder to stop meddling and that does not look like it's going to happen

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Sure, in hindsight they should have done a four year deal, but at the time they didn't even know if Cousins would be starting the following season.

Just completely disagree. They felt confident enough to pay him the franchise tag at the time. That tells me they thought Cousins had at least a 50/50 chance of being a long term QB. Of course there was risk involved, but the math and the percentages always made that $19m/yr deal a way better option than the tag.

You can say "sure, in hindsight" about anything. That doesn't make it any less dumb. "Sure, in hindsight I shouldn't have driven my ATV after I drank that bottle of Cuervo..." These guys get paid to weigh the risks and benefits and make the most informed decision. Completely failed on this one.

SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is not that great

Maybe you're right. But I sure like his odds playing for Shanahan with the 49ers better than I like ours starting Colt McCoy.

Job Gibbs proved you could win the SB with an average QB and Cousins is as good as any of the 3 SB winners. It makes sense at this point to sign him and stop all the BS.

SKINS#1 wrote:Job Gibbs proved you could win the SB with an average QB and Cousins is as good as any of the 3 SB winners. It makes sense at this point to sign him and stop all the BS.

I certainly hope you're not comparing Jay Gruden to Joe Gibbs. Joe Gibbs is the only head coach in NFL history to do what he did. Bill Belichick would look like a nobody if he had to win with three different starting quarterbacks. Ditto Steve Walsh or anyone else. Joe Gibbs also proved this when there was no salary cap. If you don't think that makes a difference I'm not sure what to tell you.