The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

mastdark81 wrote:By the way you think we have what it takes anyway to win a Super Bowl within a few years? If so then it would make sense to go with the steady guy and overpay him a lil for that chance. I honestly think we are at least a few years away because the lack of real talent on defense.

Good question, man. Not really sure on that one. Even if its unlikely that we'll win a Super Bowl anytime soon, I'd be happier to watch the team at 8-8, 9-7 with Cousins, than going back to being basement dwellers with whatever rebuilding QB is in place. I would overpay a bit for that.

I agree with you that the defense needs a big talent infusion. But I think that can be done more quickly and easily through the draft than fixing an offense.

Cousins is here - they will have a plan to keep him and continue with what they have been doing

Cousins deal is going to be very high because of his play and what the alternatives are both in the draft and in the QB market

this is a win/win for both the player and the franchise - he gets a great deal and we know we have a QB we can build around

we could have got him for less money but these guys wanted to be sure of what they were getting at the most important position

DM has posted our financials and this FO can afford to pay all the players we have and keep with the conservative game plan




just like in 2012 - 7 in a row or we don't go -

SkinsJock wrote:DM has posted our financials and this FO can afford to pay all the players we have and keep with the conservative game plan

I know you keep posting that but the fact that we have potentially $67m in cap space does not == we can keep all of our players. Really glossing over the details on that one.

understood - it's going to be fun - keeping Cousins is important but from what we've seen with other franchises, the product on the field suffers when you pay too much to a player (QBs take up a huge chunk and it's only going to go higher) or to a couple of players

seems like Cousins has played so well we may not be able to afford to keep him -

SkinsJock wrote:understood - it's going to be fun - keeping Cousins is important but from what we've seen with other franchises, the product on the field suffers when you pay too much to a player (QBs take up a huge chunk and it's only going to go higher) or to a couple of players

Seems like the guy people have been pointing at for hurting the team with his salary is Joe Flacco. Anybody have the details on that one?

Anyway, I hope it gets done. Cousins deserves starting QB money. I'd like to see him agree to something around $20m/yr, and the team continue to focus on adding players through the draft.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:understood - it's going to be fun - keeping Cousins is important but from what we've seen with other franchises, the product on the field suffers when you pay too much to a player (QBs take up a huge chunk and it's only going to go higher) or to a couple of players

Seems like the guy people have been pointing at for hurting the team with his salary is Joe Flacco. Anybody have the details on that one?

Anyway, I hope it gets done. Cousins deserves starting QB money. I'd like to see him agree to something around $20m/yr, and the team continue to focus on adding players through the draft.

It's brutal.

Joe Flacco signed a 3 year, $66,400,000 contract with the Baltimore Ravens, including a $40,000,000 signing bonus, $44,000,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $22,133,333. In 2016, Flacco will earn a base salary of $4,000,000 and a signing bonus of $25,000,000. Flacco has a cap hit of $22,550,000 while his dead money value is $69,850,000.

riggofan wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:By the way you think we have what it takes anyway to win a Super Bowl within a few years? If so then it would make sense to go with the steady guy and overpay him a lil for that chance. I honestly think we are at least a few years away because the lack of real talent on defense.

Good question, man. Not really sure on that one. Even if its unlikely that we'll win a Super Bowl anytime soon, I'd be happier to watch the team at 8-8, 9-7 with Cousins, than going back to being basement dwellers with whatever rebuilding QB is in place. I would overpay a bit for that.

I agree with you that the defense needs a big talent infusion. But I think that can be done more quickly and easily through the draft than fixing an offense.

We are a game away from a basement dweller now lmao! With a A class receiving threat. So you would overpay to be 8-8 and 9-7 every year rather than possibly getting a guy that Scot thinks can go to the Super Bowl but may take 2 years? Man thats why our team never is consistent. We can't fathom taken a step back sometimes for the good of the order. See our fans and players are satisfied with NFC East champs lol.

To be honest there is alot of franchises that have qb's that not good enough to get over the hump. Dalton, Romo, A.Smith, M.Ryan (trust me), C.Palmer. The owners are making money but have no guts to find an alternative. (Cincy backup is better in my opinion and legit).

But thats what I hope don't happen we overspend and cannot get players that can get us over that 8-8/9-7 hump. Our standards have lowered mightily.

mastdark81 wrote:So you would overpay to be 8-8 and 9-7 every year rather than possibly getting a guy that Scot thinks can go to the Super Bowl but may take 2 years? Man thats why our team never is consistent. We can't fathom taken a step back sometimes for the good of the order. See our fans and players are satisfied with NFC East champs lol.

I don't have much faith in instant greatness anymore. I just don't believe we're one great QB away from a championship. And I completely disagree with you that Redskins fans can't fathom taking a step back or taking a risk. A lot of - myself included - bought into the b.s. RG3 trade.

I completely respect your opinion on this. For me personally though this team has been consistently terrible for so long, just seeing them get back to being consistently competent and competitive is good for me right now. Three years of 8-8, 9-7 would be progress IMO.

Having a good QB is great - unfortunately even with the increase in the salary cap, paying $24M+ for a QB like Cousins means you cannot afford to keep all the other players you need

we can win 8 or 9 games next season with a $20M QB - we might not win 8 games next season if we have to pay Cousins $24M+

SkinsJock wrote:Having a good QB is great - unfortunately even with the increase in the salary cap, paying $24M+ for a QB like Cousins means you cannot afford to keep all the other players you need

we can win 8 or 9 games next season with a $20M QB - we might not win 8 games next season if we have to pay Cousins $24M+

Well if we sign him his count against the cap would probably look like this...2017 (17mil) 2018 (19mil) 2019 (25 mil) (2020) (27mil). So technically he won't hurt us significantly unless it is the final two years of his contract. I imagine the cap doesn't grow significantly with ratings down.

Probably will be less aggressive in free agency as a mindset knowing you have big cap numbers on several players.

My issue again is this. You look at the offense and you really cannot put better players around Cousins at the skilled positions. Yet he is still a middle of pack qb with that talent. Maybe it is the offensive scheme or coach holding him back but teams really don't fear us as an offense YET. So I think we can only win with a strong strong defense and I don't think we can pull that off by the time a potential Cousins contract go into the 3rd and 4th year which then hurt us financially.

unless Cousins implodes in the next 7 games (I expect him to play better) he's going to be able to get $20M-$22M MINIMUM

that's what is termed 'fair market value' and he's worth every cent of it - that's not the point

we need to be able to not just pay Cousins but all the other players we need to keep as well

I don't see how we can compete with what he's going to get offered

SkinsJock wrote:I don't see how we can compete with what he's going to get offered

We can compete. Look what they did with Josh Norman. The key there was that we didn't let him get out the door.

If we start BS-ing with the negotiations and let him test the market or wait for some other deals to go down, I think that's where we'll run into problems.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I don't see how we can compete with what he's going to get offered

We can compete. Look what they did with Josh Norman. The key there was that we didn't let him get out the door.

If we start BS-ing with the negotiations and let him test the market or wait for some other deals to go down, I think that's where we'll run into problems.

Don't be surprised if the Redskins franchise tag Cousins again in the interest of protection against losing him for nothing. Is Cousins worth two first round picks to anyone?

They can either work out a long-term deal or rescind the tag. What they can't and won't do is pay Cousins the back-to-back franchise tag amount. It would financially cripple their ability to do anything else in the offseason.

I actually believe with Mccloughan continuing to build the team the way he has, Gruden and coaching in general improving at the rate it has been, it is possible we become super bowl contenders.

Want to know how close we are to that? If we beat the Packers this week and the Cowgirls next week, we then instantly put ourselves in that discussion this year along with Dallas and Seattle. Not saying this is our year, just saying we are 2 wins from being in that discussion.

Projecting the way we are, we can be in a super bowl within the next 5 years. Get rid of kirk, and that chance goes to almost 0.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Don't be surprised if the Redskins franchise tag Cousins again in the interest of protection against losing him for nothing. Is Cousins worth two first round picks to anyone?

They can either work out a long-term deal or rescind the tag. What they can't and won't do is pay Cousins the back-to-back franchise tag amount. It would financially cripple their ability to do anything else in the offseason.

I can see that scenario. Where we ran into problems last year was while Cousins was tagged, a couple QB deals raised the bar on a deal.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:What they can't and won't do is pay Cousins the back-to-back franchise tag amount. It would financially cripple their ability to do anything else in the offseason.

No it wouldn't. They'd have to pay him like $24 million. They could definitely swing that.

Cousins just earned a ton of money last night. Those throws into the teeth of the wind in the 4th quarter were money.

Like you could hear the sound of the cash registers ringing as he was throwing them...

Cousins was just feeling it last night. That was so much fun to watch.

Still a lot of big games ahead of the team. Last December though, we saw what Cousins is capable of when he starts playing with real confidence. Man, I hope he gets on a roll like that again.

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:What they can't and won't do is pay Cousins the back-to-back franchise tag amount. It would financially cripple their ability to do anything else in the offseason.

No it wouldn't. They'd have to pay him like $24 million. They could definitely swing that.

They only have 42 players on the active roster next season. If they paid Cousins $24 million it would leave them $29 million to figure out how to replace Garcon, Jackson, Baker, Davis, fill 11 roster spots, pay the practice squad, and leave enough for the draft pool and injuries. Again, it would financially cripple their ability to do anything else.

They may end up paying Cousins a huge salary, and he's obviously earned one, but they have to be able to structure the contract in such manner as to have the ability to improve the defense without taking a huge step backwards on offense.

There has never, in the history of the franchise tag, been a quarterback franchise tagged in back-to-back seasons. With the salary cap projected to go down next season this would be a terrible time to be the first team to do it.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:They only have 42 players on the active roster next season. If they paid Cousins $24 million it would leave them $29 million to figure out how to replace Garcon, Jackson, Baker, Davis, fill 11 roster spots, pay the practice squad, and leave enough for the draft pool and injuries. Again, it would financially cripple their ability to do anything else.

Not to mention its just insanely stupid. Its like paying $4 for the big box of Cheerios instead of ponying up the $5.19 for the double sized family pack. Yeah I have to commit to eating Cheerios for three weeks, but its costing me $1.73 instead of $4 each week.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:What they can't and won't do is pay Cousins the back-to-back franchise tag amount. It would financially cripple their ability to do anything else in the offseason.

No it wouldn't. They'd have to pay him like $24 million. They could definitely swing that.

They only have 42 players on the active roster next season. If they paid Cousins $24 million it would leave them $29 million to figure out how to replace Garcon, Jackson, Baker, Davis, fill 11 roster spots, pay the practice squad, and leave enough for the draft pool and injuries. Again, it would financially cripple their ability to do anything else.

They may end up paying Cousins a huge salary, and he's obviously earned one, but they have to be able to structure the contract in such manner as to have the ability to improve the defense without taking a huge step backwards on offense.

There has never, in the history of the franchise tag, been a quarterback franchise tagged in back-to-back seasons. With the salary cap projected to go down next season this would be a terrible time to be the first team to do it.

Luckily we have the best capologists that know how to work that stuff out. They'll rework someone's contract, shift some payments down the road in the form of bonuses, let some folks go, but they could easily weather an extra $4 million to Kirk It certainly wouldn't "cripple" them. Also, the practice squad doesn't figure into the salary cap at all. And, the draft pool is set by the league, and that money is already allotted, so it doesn't fit into this equation either. I wouldn't worry at all if they felt the need to franchise him again. Depending on how we wind up, we may get those two #1 picks yet.

Deadskins wrote:Luckily we have the best capologists that know how to work that stuff out. They'll rework someone's contract, shift some payments down the road in the form of bonuses, let some folks go, but they could easily weather an extra $4 million to Kirk It certainly wouldn't "cripple" them. Also, the practice squad doesn't figure into the salary cap at all. And, the draft pool is set by the league, and that money is already allotted, so it doesn't fit into this equation either. I wouldn't worry at all if they felt the need to franchise him again. Depending on how we wind up, we may get those two #1 picks yet.

I look at it more from the standpoint of every million in cap space determines whether or not you can sign a free agent upgrade.

If I'm Scot McCloughan I want one high impact free agent, like Josh Norman last season. That would be Eric Berry in a perfect world. Berry is going to be expensive.

$10 million in cap space might not be enough to sign a free agent like Berry. $12 million might be.

In my mind that's really where every dollar not paid to Cousins just because they take the easy route in negotiations would make a difference.

I think thought anyone who saw Donte Whitner last night would agree Berry would be a huge upgrade.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I think thought anyone who saw Donte Whitner last night would agree Berry would be a huge upgrade.

hah. I think anyone who watched Landon Collins yesterday might be thinking we can find a starting safety in the second round of the draft.

Of any position out there, safety is probably the one where I would not spend big money in free agency. Too much injury risk. Ask the Saints how that big contract for Jairus Byrd worked out.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I think thought anyone who saw Donte Whitner last night would agree Berry would be a huge upgrade.

hah. I think anyone who watched Landon Collins yesterday might be thinking we can find a starting safety in the second round of the draft.

Of any position out there, safety is probably the one where I would not spend big money in free agency. Too much injury risk. Ask the Saints how that big contract for Jairus Byrd worked out.

Collins might be the only free safety that's been worth drafting since #21. They're very hard to find in the draft.

Most of the players who would make really good free safeties play cornerback because it pays more.

Byrd was highly overrated on an excellent Buffalo defense that allowed him to freelance. The Saints grossly overreached and overpaid there. Cerrato move.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I think thought anyone who saw Donte Whitner last night would agree Berry would be a huge upgrade.

hah. I think anyone who watched Landon Collins yesterday might be thinking we can find a starting safety in the second round of the draft.

Of any position out there, safety is probably the one where I would not spend big money in free agency. Too much injury risk. Ask the Saints how that big contract for Jairus Byrd worked out.

Safety is also one of those positions where it is difficult to predict whether their prior team success will transfer to their newly signed team. I find it similar to DEs and 4-3 DTs. Those guys require help from their teammates in order to succeed/look good.

I agree that safeties are players you shouldn't draft high or sign to high-priced FA deals because of the uncertainty.