The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

The Hogster wrote:Don't underestimate what the following can do.

1) McNabb getting the ball out quicker. Sure Jason got killed and our line was weak, but some of those sacks can be avoided by a guy like McNabb.

2) Actually getting the lead in games. If we don't have to throw the ball as often, we can run it control the clock and help protect our QB.

3) Shanahan's scheme. Shanahan's version of the west coast offense utilizes alot of zone blocking and misdirection on play action. Some of our scheme can result in better line play.

I do realize just like anyone else, that our OLine is the weak link. But, I do think that we can address some important needs via the draft and later in FA. Youth and depth are a gradual process though.

Irn-Bru wrote:I'd say that Rabach and Dockery are both legit starters. You have to believe that we'll pick up a LT with the #4 pick. I'd say the odds are 50/50 that we will fill either the RG or RT spot with a legit starter before August. (But the odds are nearly zero that we'll get good players for both, assuming we pursue a LT in the draft).

So, that's a 50/50 shot in my view that we will have 4 legit starters out of 5 going into next season . . . but with no depth. Still, that's better than last year. Barring more than one injury at a time, it should be good enough to give a skilled QB something to work with.

Don't know how we expect to run the ball, though. Gibbs was able to make it work with only marginally better players, but he did have a much better RB.

The Hogster wrote:Don't underestimate what the following can do.

1) McNabb getting the ball out quicker. Sure Jason got killed and our line was weak, but some of those sacks can be avoided by a guy like McNabb.

2) Actually getting the lead in games. If we don't have to throw the ball as often, we can run it control the clock and help protect our QB.

3) Shanahan's scheme. Shanahan's version of the west coast offense utilizes alot of zone blocking and misdirection on play action. Some of our scheme can result in better line play.

I do realize just like anyone else, that our OLine is the weak link. But, I do think that we can address some important needs via the draft and later in FA. Youth and depth are a gradual process though.

CanesSkins26 wrote:Rabach used to be a legit starter. He sure didn't play like one last year. He was constantly beat and looked physically overmatched in many games last year. On a good team he is a backup, not a starter.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Rabach used to be a legit starter. He sure didn't play like one last year. He was constantly beat and looked physically overmatched in many games last year. On a good team he is a backup, not a starter.

Well, our old regime didn't agree with you nor does the new one

CanesSkins26 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Rabach used to be a legit starter. He sure didn't play like one last year. He was constantly beat and looked physically overmatched in many games last year. On a good team he is a backup, not a starter.

Well, our old regime didn't agree with you nor does the new one

Our old regime was proven right so often, wasn't it?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Rabach used to be a legit starter. He sure didn't play like one last year. He was constantly beat and looked physically overmatched in many games last year. On a good team he is a backup, not a starter.

Well, our old regime didn't agree with you nor does the new one

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:Rabach used to be a legit starter. He sure didn't play like one last year. He was constantly beat and looked physically overmatched in many games last year. On a good team he is a backup, not a starter.

Well, our old regime didn't agree with you nor does the new one

Our old regime was proven right so often, wasn't it?

Well they had more NFL experience then you do. And the old regime included Boss Hog, you may have heard of him. Then you ignored the rest of it so I made it easier to read for you. I keep trying to debate you on these points, but you just keep ignoring everything that's not convenient to your arguments, like above. If you can counter them I'd rather admit you were right if you can support your points, but you're not supporting them at all, just making statements.

But while Shanahan's coaching prowess is widely proclaimed, he is not nearly as admired as a personnel executive. Much of the thinking is that Shanahan's lust for control and a constant belief that he was only a player or two away from the Super Bowl led him into questionable moves.

For instance, his entire 2003 draft did not succeed and its only player of any impact -- right tackle George Foster -- was a first-round bust who was gone after 2006. His drafting of troubled Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett in 2005 was a waste of a third-round pick. And a long line of high-profile free agent signings, including Daryl Gardener, Travis Henry, Denard Walker, Simeon Rice and Dale Carter, were mostly disasters.

"The reason Mike is not coaching the Broncos anymore is the personnel decisions," Schlereth said.

Shanahan often evaluated players by watching tapes of their highlights, a system employed by some in the league who believe that if you see a player at his best then he can be coached up to that ability.

"It has worked for him. I think he has confidence in it," said Lombardi, the NFL Network analyst.

But many league executives say the approach can become intoxicating to a coach who is confident in his ability to coach the player to that level and has the ultimate authority to choose that player.

"He didn't listen to his scouts," said one NFL general manager, who asked not to be identified because he didn't want to publicly criticize another team executive.

Another executive, who also did not want his name used because he might have to deal with Shanahan again, said that Shanahan let his coaching emotions get in the way, "overrating" the players he had brought in both on offense and defense.

"He makes some interesting decisions," the executive said. "But he can overcome them with his coaching."

Others who know him say that while he built strong offenses, he felt compelled to make quick fixes on the defense, that he ignored character and lured too many troublesome players to Denver.

The general manager in name for much of Shanahan's time in Denver was Ted Sundquist, a former military intelligence officer, who negotiated contracts and fielded calls from the other general managers around the league. Nonetheless none of those executives believed Sundquist had the ultimate power over any transaction. Everything, no matter, how insignificant, needed Shanahan's approval.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:I just honestly don't see Shanahan wanting to coach up a rookie when he doesn't have too with McNabb

Actually better then that, why start a rookie when he can both have his cake and eat it too? McNabb playing in the game while we actually get to evaluate and develop a rookie to eventually take over?

Dude, I'm soo down for that! That's why we have COLT (with his new number)

We're obviously in agreement on this. NFL QB is just too demanding a position. Other then the really rare exceptions, clipboard in year one on gameday is really the best way to start preparing a guy and having a winner like McNabb to both hold down the position and tutor a youngster is just such a great move to make to get us there. Having Campbell and a rookie is just a horrible solution for us no matter how you slice it. No matter how good JC is in practice, the guy doesn't know how to play the position on game day. How can he teach someone else to do what he can't?

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Don't underestimate what the following can do.

1) McNabb getting the ball out quicker. Sure Jason got killed and our line was weak, but some of those sacks can be avoided by a guy like McNabb.

2) Actually getting the lead in games. If we don't have to throw the ball as often, we can run it control the clock and help protect our QB.

3) Shanahan's scheme. Shanahan's version of the west coast offense utilizes alot of zone blocking and misdirection on play action. Some of our scheme can result in better line play.

I do realize just like anyone else, that our OLine is the weak link. But, I do think that we can address some important needs via the draft and later in FA. Youth and depth are a gradual process though.

Those are all good points. However, McNabb struggled at the end of the year last season when the Eagles oline started to break down towards the end of the year, especially in those last two games against Dallas.

PulpExposure wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:

The Hogster wrote:Don't underestimate what the following can do.

1) McNabb getting the ball out quicker. Sure Jason got killed and our line was weak, but some of those sacks can be avoided by a guy like McNabb.

2) Actually getting the lead in games. If we don't have to throw the ball as often, we can run it control the clock and help protect our QB.

3) Shanahan's scheme. Shanahan's version of the west coast offense utilizes alot of zone blocking and misdirection on play action. Some of our scheme can result in better line play.

I do realize just like anyone else, that our OLine is the weak link. But, I do think that we can address some important needs via the draft and later in FA. Youth and depth are a gradual process though.

Those are all good points. However, McNabb struggled at the end of the year last season when the Eagles oline started to break down towards the end of the year, especially in those last two games against Dallas.

Probably got dead arm from throwing it 80 times a game.

I really wonder how McNabb will look in a more balanced offense.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:the old regime included Boss Hog

CanesSkins26 wrote:You really want to argue the successes of Vinny and Zorn?

CanesSkins26 wrote:As for the new regime, how they perform remains to be seen. The signings of LJ and Parker are red flags. As is Allen's lack of experience on the personnel side of things. Go take a look at some of Tampa Bay's drafts when he was their GM. As for Shanahan, his ability as a coach can't be questioned. However, Shanahan the GM sabotaged Shanahan the Coach quite a few times in Denver, particularly with some of the boneheaded defensive moves that they made.

But while Shanahan's coaching prowess is widely proclaimed, he is not nearly as admired as a personnel executive. Much of the thinking is that Shanahan's lust for control and a constant belief that he was only a player or two away from the Super Bowl led him into questionable moves.

For instance, his entire 2003 draft did not succeed and its only player of any impact -- right tackle George Foster -- was a first-round bust who was gone after 2006. His drafting of troubled Ohio State running back Maurice Clarett in 2005 was a waste of a third-round pick. And a long line of high-profile free agent signings, including Daryl Gardener, Travis Henry, Denard Walker, Simeon Rice and Dale Carter, were mostly disasters.

"The reason Mike is not coaching the Broncos anymore is the personnel decisions," Schlereth said.

Shanahan often evaluated players by watching tapes of their highlights, a system employed by some in the league who believe that if you see a player at his best then he can be coached up to that ability.

"It has worked for him. I think he has confidence in it," said Lombardi, the NFL Network analyst.

But many league executives say the approach can become intoxicating to a coach who is confident in his ability to coach the player to that level and has the ultimate authority to choose that player.

"He didn't listen to his scouts," said one NFL general manager, who asked not to be identified because he didn't want to publicly criticize another team executive.

Another executive, who also did not want his name used because he might have to deal with Shanahan again, said that Shanahan let his coaching emotions get in the way, "overrating" the players he had brought in both on offense and defense.

"He makes some interesting decisions," the executive said. "But he can overcome them with his coaching."

Others who know him say that while he built strong offenses, he felt compelled to make quick fixes on the defense, that he ignored character and lured too many troublesome players to Denver.

The general manager in name for much of Shanahan's time in Denver was Ted Sundquist, a former military intelligence officer, who negotiated contracts and fielded calls from the other general managers around the league. Nonetheless none of those executives believed Sundquist had the ultimate power over any transaction. Everything, no matter, how insignificant, needed Shanahan's approval.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/01/06/AR2010010602487.html?sid=ST2010010700047

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

Good data Fleetus. And those guys as I pointed out weren't picked by teams who had to have an OL and were going to take the best one no matter how worthy they were, or weren't. We could be picking a guy who shouldn't go until mid second round since we'd be locked into the position.

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't think that the argument has even been that McNabb is not worth the 37th pick. The argument is that the Skins, with our without McNabb, wont be good enough to consistently compete for two to the three years, by which point we'll be in need of replacement for McNabb. I would also argue that we would be better off trying to find a qb that we can develop and have here for 8-10 years instead of a guy, that in all likelihood, has 2-3 years left as a starter.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't think that the argument has even been that McNabb is not worth the 37th pick. The argument is that the Skins, with our without McNabb, wont be good enough to consistently compete for two to the three years, by which point we'll be in need of replacement for McNabb. I would also argue that we would be better off trying to find a qb that we can develop and have here for 8-10 years instead of a guy, that in all likelihood, has 2-3 years left as a starter.

And the arguments you keep ignoring are:

1) W/O him we have no quarterback now, which means we would be required to throw a rookie into the lions den or play, God forbid, JC again. Both those are just a waste of the next two years for our offense

2) He's a proven NFL winner and gives our rookie quarterback a chance to develop and a mentor who unlike JC knows how to play quarterback in the NFL

3) The rest of the O needs to develop as well, and having McNabb gives them a chance to do that. Particularly our pass catchers who can't learn to catch uncatchable throws

And that he's done in 2-3 years is worst case other then serious injury. He's a quality QB still who knows how to play the game and could go on quite a bit longer then 2-3 years and will do at least that

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

Good data Fleetus. And those guys as I pointed out weren't picked by teams who had to have an OL and were going to take the best one no matter how worthy they were, or weren't. We could be picking a guy who shouldn't go until mid second round since we'd be locked into the position.

CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't see us drafting a replacement for McNabb in the next year or two. Second, with giving up two picks, and still having a lot of holes, we're running on picks that can be used for a young qb.

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

Good data Fleetus. And those guys as I pointed out weren't picked by teams who had to have an OL and were going to take the best one no matter how worthy they were, or weren't. We could be picking a guy who shouldn't go until mid second round since we'd be locked into the position.

I'll take it a step further. How about the most recent QB's of the 2nd round, to make this a more specific 2nd round QB vs. McNabb comparison.

2009
Pat White - Dolphins - was their backup QB and played some wildcat formations for them. Doesn't look like he'll be much more than a role player though.

2008
Brian Brohm - As a rookie, he was the third quarterback on the depth chart in GB. Placed on the practice squad in 2009. Buffalo signed him off the GB P.Squad. Bills are still looking for a QB though.

Chand Henne - is the Dolphins starter as of last year. So he sat a year, then began to take over. he looks good and could develop into a top 15 QB in the NFL. decent pick.

2007
Kevin Kolb - Stay tuned

John Beck - man Miami sure loves 2nd round QB's! He was the 3rd string QB most of his time until released last year. Baltimore signed him where he I think he is still a 3rd stringer.

Drew Stanton - He's been the 3rd stringer most of the time, although there was a period where he was elevated to 2nd string behind the great Dan Orlovsky He is still with the Lions, I think.

2006
Kellen Clemens - backed up Pennington, Favre and Sanchez in NY for several years. He started 8 games in 2007 and went 3-5. Is a free agent looking for a job right now I believe.

Tavaris Jackson - had a very sporadic time as starter in Minnesota. Was a backup to Favre. Vikings have made a 3rd round tender to Jackson this off season.

Again, there are some decent players here. Would you pass up these QB's in the draft to get McNabb? I would again in a heart beat. and I love building through the draft. But you have to know what it is your expectations for the draft are. You also can't muck around with the QB position. It is a severe crapshoot finding a decent QB in the draft.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't see us drafting a replacement for McNabb in the next year or two. Second, with giving up two picks, and still having a lot of holes, we're running on picks that can be used for a young qb.

Agreed, but the first part is the beauty of a guy like McNabb. For a second round pick, we buy a couple years of a very good QB and probably a half dozen where he's better then JC is now. We get to delay needing to find a replacement. We have lots of holes.

If we play JC this year then we're pressured to find a QB right away and use a pick on that where we could be shoring up our other holes. Which as you point out in point 3 are extensive. And also with McNabb we have a chance to give more of a shot at finding a low round gem. W/O him we really need Bradford or we're really rolling the dice with any other option. Then we could lose a first or second rounder for nothing if they suck, like JC, Pat Ramsey, ...

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:I don't see us drafting a replacement for McNabb in the next year or two. Second, with giving up two picks, and still having a lot of holes, we're running on picks that can be used for a young qb.

Agreed, but the first part is the beauty of a guy like McNabb. For a second round pick, we buy a couple years of a very good QB and probably a half dozen where he's better then JC is now. We get to delay needing to find a replacement. We have lots of holes.

If we play JC this year then we're pressured to find a QB right away and use a pick on that where we could be shoring up our other holes. Which as you point out in point 3 are extensive. And also with McNabb we have a chance to give more of a shot at finding a low round gem. W/O him we really need Bradford or we're really rolling the dice with any other option. Then we could lose a first or second rounder for nothing if they suck, like JC, Pat Ramsey, ...

CanesSkins26 wrote:

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

fleetus wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.

Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.

So let's look at the previous #37 picks to see how much they started their first year and how big of an impact they're having so far.

2009 So is Alphonso Smith, Broncos a starter yet? Nope. Seems to be a decent nickel CB so far.

2008 Curtis Lofton, linebacker started for the Falcons right away. He also started most of his second season and seems to be a solid contributor.

2007 Did Eric Weddle start at safety for the Chargers in 2007? Nope.
He started his whole second season, 2008 though. The jury is still out whether he is living up to expectations.

2006 Jimmy Williams, cornerback started 5 games for Atlanta in 2006, but was cut, suspended, cut again and suspended again. Looks like he may be out of football for good.

2005 Shaun Cody, was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2005. He's never been a regular starter despite playing for the Lions. Last year he was signed as a free agent by the Texans but is still not a starter.

2004 Teddy Lehman, linebacker was drafted #37 by the Lions in 2004. He started most of his first couple years for the Lions. In 2008 he left as a free agent and was signed by TB. But they cut him in training camp same year. He went back to the Lions, went on IR same year and was released. Not sure if he is playing anywhere now.

So there you go. Now is McNabb worth passing up the chance for guys of this caliber?

Good data Fleetus. And those guys as I pointed out weren't picked by teams who had to have an OL and were going to take the best one no matter how worthy they were, or weren't. We could be picking a guy who shouldn't go until mid second round since we'd be locked into the position.

I'll take it a step further. How about the most recent QB's of the 2nd round, to make this a more specific 2nd round QB vs. McNabb comparison.

2009
Pat White - Dolphins - was their backup QB and played some wildcat formations for them. Doesn't look like he'll be much more than a role player though.

2008
Brian Brohm - As a rookie, he was the third quarterback on the depth chart in GB. Placed on the practice squad in 2009. Buffalo signed him off the GB P.Squad. Bills are still looking for a QB though.

Chand Henne - is the Dolphins starter as of last year. So he sat a year, then began to take over. he looks good and could develop into a top 15 QB in the NFL. decent pick.

2007
Kevin Kolb - Stay tuned

John Beck - man Miami sure loves 2nd round QB's! He was the 3rd string QB most of his time until released last year. Baltimore signed him where he I think he is still a 3rd stringer.

Drew Stanton - He's been the 3rd stringer most of the time, although there was a period where he was elevated to 2nd string behind the great Dan Orlovsky He is still with the Lions, I think.

2006
Kellen Clemens - backed up Pennington, Favre and Sanchez in NY for several years. He started 8 games in 2007 and went 3-5. Is a free agent looking for a job right now I believe.

Tavaris Jackson - had a very sporadic time as starter in Minnesota. Was a backup to Favre. Vikings have made a 3rd round tender to Jackson this off season.

Again, there are some decent players here. Would you pass up these QB's in the draft to get McNabb? I would again in a heart beat. and I love building through the draft. But you have to know what it is your expectations for the draft are. You also can't muck around with the QB position. It is a severe crapshoot finding a decent QB in the draft.

Matt Shaub was drafted in the 2nd round.