The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:freak injuries and bad luck have nothing to do with it

I'm sure you can agree that a bad front office is not helped by the starting QB going down unexpectedly with a compound fracture. Of course luck and injuries play a part. Its moronic to suggest otherwise. If I'm a terrible driver I have a very good chance of wrecking my car. If I'm a terrible driver and I'm unlucky enough to have a drunk driver swerve into my lane, I'm probably extra f***d.

If luck is a combination of skill and opportunity then bad luck is a combination of lack of skill and opportunity.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:freak injuries and bad luck have nothing to do with it

I'm sure you can agree that a bad front office is not helped by the starting QB going down unexpectedly with a compound fracture. Of course luck and injuries play a part. Its moronic to suggest otherwise.

no matter who is playing QB or who the HC is, it's moronic to expect more than 8 wins from a franchise under Dan Snyder's guidance or more than 7 wins with Snyder and Allen making decisions - can't wait to hear the win loss expectancy in August from some here

You guys must be delusional if you think drafting a WR is a good idea

In fact, it's the worst decision you could possible make.

1) The modern WR is a primadona. He craves attention all the time.

2) That me-me-me attitude is most frequent with high draft picks.

3) Since we're basically starting from zero with yet another QB,
it's highly unlikely a top rounder WR gets the ball consistently.

4) Realistically, most WRs ride the pine for at least one season before they play.
Drafting a high round one creates little impact for the upcoming season.

5) Worst case scenario, you draft a highly paid primadona WR that builds unwanted pressure
because he's not playing yet he thinks he can, making him the spotlight of our season.

In conclusion, thanks but no thanks. If we're going for broke
go for a QB or QB depth. Everything else is secondary.

El Mexican wrote:You guys must be delusional if you think drafting a WR is a good idea

In fact, it's the worst decision you could possible make.

1) The modern WR is a primadona. He craves attention all the time.

2) That me-me-me attitude is most frequent with high draft picks.

3) Since we're basically starting from zero with yet another QB,
it's highly unlikely a top rounder WR gets the ball consistently.

4) Realistically, most WRs ride the pine for at least one season before they play.
Drafting a high round one creates little impact for the upcoming season.

5) Worst case scenario, you draft a highly paid primadona WR that builds unwanted pressure
because he's not playing yet he thinks he can, making him the spotlight of our season.

In conclusion, thanks but no thanks. If we're going for broke
go for a QB or QB depth. Everything else is secondary.

It's a passing league. If you don't have a QB and receivers you don't have anything.

SkinsJock wrote:no matter who is playing QB or who the HC is, it's moronic to expect more than 8 wins from a franchise under Dan Snyder's guidance or more than 7 wins with Snyder and Allen making decisions

Oh look! An argument that no one is making. Very surprising.

El Mexican wrote:You guys must be delusional if you think drafting a WR is a good idea

I kind of think drafting a WR is neither a good idea nor a bad idea. Its just - like you pointed out - an extremely risky pick.

I wonder how drafting a WR in the first round compares with drafting first round QBs in terms of success? Would be interesting to see. Guessing QB is still the diciest just because teams are so much more willing to reach at that position.

El Mexican wrote:You guys must be delusional if you think drafting a WR is a good idea - In fact, it's the worst decision you could possible make.
If we're going for broke go for a QB or QB depth. Everything else is secondary.

nobody with any sense thinks that this franchise is "going for broke" or hoping for very much success at all this season - this season is about making the most of the current situation and looking forward to next season and beyond - if we can land a really good WR we should do that - if we can draft a really good QB, we'll most likely do that - not to win more games this season but rather because we hope he will become our future starting QB

Do you honestly believe that, SJ?

You of all people should know that the FO follows no rhyme or reason in the decision-making process
These guys are not going to capitulate their entire season before starting it.

That would be suicide for their bottom line $$$.

El Mexican wrote:Do you honestly believe that, SJ?

If he doesn't, he is very committed to typing it repeatedly.

El Mexican wrote:You of all people should know that the FO follows no rhyme or reason in the decision-making process
These guys are not going to capitulate their entire season before starting it.

I don't really get fans cheering that strategy on anyway. We all know that every season with this franchise is more than likely going to be either a disappointment, a heartbreak, a total s***show or some combination of the three! I'd at least like to enjoy the first eight weeks of the season believing that they're not purposely tanking. hah.

riggofan wrote:

El Mexican wrote:Do you honestly believe that, SJ?

If he doesn't, he is very committed to typing it repeatedly.

He's very committed to typing about three things repeatedly. The problem with that is none of them bring anything of value to the discussion. They simply interrupt discussions.

When you begin a statement with a logical fallacy such as "no one with any sense thinks ...", a/k/a the "No True Scotsman" fallacy, you have no point.

No NFL season is about waiting until next year. Ever. For any team.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:No NFL season is about waiting until next year. Ever. For any team.

Yeah that's what I believe as well. I have seasons where my expectations are lower than others, but I still think every team goes out and tries to field a competitive team. Like El Mexican pointed out, it can be a financial disaster to go out and show you're completely out of contention by the end of September. I mean, damn. This team was doing reasonably well early last year and they were STILL getting killed on attendance.

Its the offseason, so I'm sure I'll be annoyed by Bruce Allen for at least the next three or four months. But once they get to training camp, I could care less about the guys in the front office.

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:No NFL season is about waiting until next year. Ever. For any team.

Yeah that's what I believe as well. I have seasons where my expectations are lower than others, but I still think every team goes out and tries to field a competitive team. Like El Mexican pointed out, it can be a financial disaster to go out and show you're completely out of contention by the end of September. I mean, damn. This team was doing reasonably well early last year and they were STILL getting killed on attendance.

Its the offseason, so I'm sure I'll be annoyed by Bruce Allen for at least the next three or four months. But once they get to training camp, I could care less about the guys in the front office.

If it's about waiting until next year why do teams sign any free agents? Why do teams draft any players instead of trading all of their picks away? Why do teams sign new coaches and coordinators? Why train? Why practice? Why do anything? There's nothing that says that you have to show up for games. Just forfeit all of them so no on gets injured. Make sure you tell the head coach you have no expectations of him this year.

If there's someone out there who doesn't agree Bruce Allen is a problem I haven't heard of them yet. If there's someone out there who doesn't think Dan Snyder is a problem I've not heard of them yet. We understand the upper management is a problem. I'm with you. It's time to move on from what we already know and focus on what we don't know. The draft. How new players will fit in. Defensive changes. Player health, hopefully. Building on the positives from last season, and there were several. Allowing players already on the roster to develop another season. Getting new players game experience and system familiarity. Looking for individual standouts. Seeing who fits the future of the organization.

There are dozens of things to look forward to THIS SEASON if one is looking for them.

El Mexican wrote:Do you honestly believe that, SJ? You of all people should know that the FO follows no rhyme or reason in the decision-making process These guys are not going to capitulate their entire season before starting it. That would be suicide for their bottom line $$$.

I think we're on the same page - I'm not saying that the 2 bozos will do anything different than they have done which is try to draft and add the best players that they can - same goes for the coaches they hire - the problem is they have not shown very good judgement in their decision making and the results on the field are the result of this

Since 1999, at the beginning of every year I hope that the coming season will be different and at the end of each season I see that was not possible

I'm hoping for the best this season but I'm not expecting much - no player or coach is giving 100% when the idiots they work for don't have a clue

SkinsJock wrote:

El Mexican wrote:Do you honestly believe that, SJ? You of all people should know that the FO follows no rhyme or reason in the decision-making process These guys are not going to capitulate their entire season before starting it. That would be suicide for their bottom line $$$.

I think we're on the same page - I'm not saying that the 2 bozos will do anything different than they have done which is try to draft and add the best players that they can - same goes for the coaches they hire - the problem is they have not shown very good judgement in their decision making and the results on the field are the result of this

Since 1999, at the beginning of every year I hope that the coming season will be different and at the end of each season I see that was not possible

I'm hoping for the best this season but I'm not expecting much - no player or coach is giving 100% when the idiots they work for don't have a clue

Why don't you jump on Twitter and tell Daron Payne you don't think he's going to give his best this season. Or Adrian Peterson.

You're talking out your ass.

On "tanking" this season to get a higher draft pick in 2020, this just in:

Miami Dolphins coach Brian Flores doesn't even like to hear the word "tank." So when the question was brought up about the common link between the 2019 Dolphins and tanking, he was emphatic that he wouldn't stand for it.

he 2020 NFL QB class, which has a lot of hype and promise, could be led by Alabama's Tua Tagovailoa. #TankforTua began to build momentum as a social media rally cry for supporters of the Dolphins tanking.

But Miami's top brass has double downed on multiple occasions that the team isn't tanking in 2019.

"There's no tanking. You can write that over and over and over again," Flores said.

I also think it's absurd for any team to even consider this.
Our once-proud franchise may be downtrodden right now, but that does not mean it's a permanent condition.

the players and coaches would not be able to practice or play without giving their best effort on and off the field - it's what they do

look at what has happened here since 1999 - the win/loss record for this franchise is mainly due to Snyder & Allen's decisions & management

SkinsJock wrote:no player or coach is giving 100% when the idiots they work for don't have a clue

SkinsJock wrote:the players and coaches would not be able to practice or play without giving their best effort on and off the field - it's what they do

When you figure out which side of the fence you're on let us know.

Stay at 15 and draft Lock or trade down and draft Lock. There isn't much difference between him and Haskins as far as arm strength and you don't have to give away draft picks to do it. If not Lock then Daniel Jones. It would be a mistake to trade up and get Haskins. A slightly better Jameis Winston. I think Daniel Jones is better. Lock could be even better but could also be worse. Lock is a poor man's John Elway or a Jeff George. Daniel Jones is a Drew Brees type but taller.

I don't know how much truth there is to it but I'm hearing at least three teams are interested in Josh Rosen and that at least one team has already offered their 2nd round pick for him. If that's the cost I hope the Redskins are out. They can easily draft a QB prospect this season and another one next season. They need two or three new QBs anyway. None of the ones currently on the roster are the long-term answer.

Sonny9TD wrote:Stay at 15 and draft Lock or trade down and draft Lock. There isn't much difference between him and Haskins as far as arm strength and you don't have to give away draft picks to do it. If not Lock then Daniel Jones. It would be a mistake to trade up and get Haskins. A slightly better Jameis Winston. I think Daniel Jones is better. Lock could be even better but could also be worse. Lock is a poor man's John Elway or a Jeff George. Daniel Jones is a Drew Brees type but taller.

Hard to know which of these guys is better really. I've heard good things about all of them. But I think to your point, it looks like one of them would be around at #15 without trading up.

If you sit at 15, I think the interesting part would be what happens if somebody really highly rated falls there. It happens every year. Maybe you're able to trade DOWN a few spots and still get the QB you want.

This Keim article today is worth a read but kind of bothered me.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfceast/post/_ ... nd-next-qb

The Washington Redskins need to find their quarterback of the future. Coach Jay Gruden most likely needs to win now. Those two sentences could lead to conflicting desires when it comes to the NFL draft next month. That is, if the Redskins view the situation the same way.

With Alex Smith's future still uncertain and with no healthy quarterback signed beyond this season, the Redskins need to find a young quarterback. With the 15th pick in the draft, they're likely in position to land one of the top four in the draft. The problem: If they feel the quarterback must sit for a year to develop, that pick won't help them now.

I think he's right about it but I hope its not really the front office mindset. Like we HAVE to make the playoffs this year or the fans will revolt. I think it would be a far worse situation to stumble along on another 6-10 season with the latest journeyman QB.

riggofan wrote:This Keim article today is worth a read but kind of bothered me.

http://www.espn.com/blog/nfceast/post/_ ... nd-next-qb

The Washington Redskins need to find their quarterback of the future. Coach Jay Gruden most likely needs to win now. Those two sentences could lead to conflicting desires when it comes to the NFL draft next month. That is, if the Redskins view the situation the same way.

With Alex Smith's future still uncertain and with no healthy quarterback signed beyond this season, the Redskins need to find a young quarterback. With the 15th pick in the draft, they're likely in position to land one of the top four in the draft. The problem: If they feel the quarterback must sit for a year to develop, that pick won't help them now.

I think he's right about it but I hope its not really the front office mindset. Like we HAVE to make the playoffs this year or the fans will revolt. I think it would be a far worse situation to stumble along on another 6-10 season with the latest journeyman QB.

First of all I don't think the team will have the talent to make the playoffs or even close to it so, to me, that's a non-starter. Secondly, if the plan is to get rid of Jay Gruden after this season it won't really matter what he does because it won't be enough to retain his job. He's not getting ten or eleven wins out of whatever roster the front office assembles for the 2019 NFL season. That begins with the QB they don't have so the entire argument here is circular.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:First of all I don't think the team will have the talent to make the playoffs or even close to it so, to me, that's a non-starter.

Yeah I don't think ANYBODY believes that. Which is why I'm kind of horrified by the suggestion that the front office might.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Secondly, if the plan is to get rid of Jay Gruden after this season it won't really matter what he does because it won't be enough to retain his job. He's not getting ten or eleven wins out of whatever roster the front office assembles for the 2019 NFL season. That begins with the QB they don't have so the entire argument here is circular.

He looks like the lamest of ducks no doubt about it. I don't know if its the "plan" to get rid of him or not, but I would kind of think he'd need something borderline miraculous to last beyond 2019.

I really believe unless they're totally not impressed by any of the draft options (or a Rosen trade) they have to get a QB this year. The natives are beyond restless.

riggofan wrote: He looks like the lamest of ducks no doubt about it. I don't know if its the "plan" to get rid of him or not, but I would kind of think he'd need something borderline miraculous to last beyond 2019.

I really believe unless they're totally not impressed by any of the draft options (or a Rosen trade) they have to get a QB this year. The natives are beyond restless.

I keep going back to "This is the longest Dan Snyder has ever kept a head coach!" in my head. I'm thinking he's out of his usually short patience.