Page 12 of 18
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 am
by HEROHAMO
brad7686 wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:I tell you what. McNabb, even if he doesn't win one game, will help these younger WR's develop like Farve did with the WR's in Minnesota this year.
I wouldn't give Favre all the credit. Those guys were first round picks and Rice is extremely talented.
?????Sidney Rice and Bernard Berrian were mere afterthoughts before Farve arrived.
Is it a coincidence that Rice had a Pro Bowl season once Farve arrived. Come on put two and two together.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:27 am
by fleetus
How about McNabb's WR's? He had T.O. for one season, they went to a SB, then T.O. was gone. Who else did he have? Pinkston? Freddie Mitchell?
Thrash? He had Westbrook when he was healthy.
I think
ey, Moss, Davis, Thomas and Kelly might actually be decent this year, at least in comparison.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 1:17 am
by fleetus
frankcal20 wrote:It's pretty simple. We were going to get a QB in this years draft with likely the #1 or #2 pick. What we did was look at the QB's there and say - are any of them more valuable than McNabb. Well they removed all risk at that position by taking him vs. the other options. The major QB's are coming off injury, never thrown a pass in the NFL and didn't play in pro-style offenses either.
Like Rich Tandler stated:
Alphonso Smith, cornerback, Wake Forest; Curtis Lofton, linebacker, Oklahoma; Eric Weddle, safety, Utah; Jimmy Williams, cornerback, Virginia Tech; Shaun Cody, defensive tackle, USC; Teddy Lehman, linebacker, Oklahoma. Those are the last six players taken with the 37th selection in the last six NFL drafts by Denver, Atlanta, San Diego, Atlanta, Detroit, and Detroit, respectively (in inverse chronological order 2009-2005). There are a few nice players on this list but none will have the impact of Donovan McNabb over the next few years.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:48 am
by Skinsfan55
If we can build a competent line I am excited about what McNabb will do for Moss,
ey, Davis, Thomas and Kelly. Remember what McNabb did with Todd Pinkston, Freddy Mitchell, James Thrash, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis? T.O. was the best wideout McNabb ever had... and he only had him for one and a half seasons.
I think Donnie Mac will take our WR's to a new level.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:17 am
by SkinsJock
Skinsfan55 wrote:If we can build a competent line I am excited about what McNabb will do for Moss,
ey, Davis, Thomas and Kelly. Remember what McNabb did with Todd Pinkston, Freddy Mitchell, James Thrash, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis? T.O. was the best wideout McNabb ever had... and he only had him for one and a half seasons.
I think Donnie Mac will take our WR's to a new level.
so you think the offensive line will be much better this year? I know it's hard to imagine that it could be worse but the guys in place right now are not going to cut it
I'm sure we'll see a much better offensive line but that is going to take some pretty good coaching and some players really stepping up
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:41 am
by Countertrey
Funbuncher notes:
I've read through these 18 pages and it appears that the fact that Donovan McNabb is a Philadelphia Eagle icon is not even a relevant point in this debate.
Well... that would be because the fact that Donovan McNabb is a Philadelphia Eagles icon is not even a relevant point in this debate...
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:51 am
by chiefhog44
Countertrey wrote:Funbuncher notes:
I've read through these 18 pages and it appears that the fact that Donovan McNabb is a Philadelphia Eagle icon is not even a relevant point in this debate.
Well... that would be because the fact that Donovan McNabb is a Philadelphia Eagles icon is not even a relevant point in this debate...
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:29 am
by frankcal20
SkinsJock wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:If we can build a competent line I am excited about what McNabb will do for Moss, Cooley, Davis, Thomas and Kelly. Remember what McNabb did with Todd Pinkston, Freddy Mitchell, James Thrash, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis? T.O. was the best wideout McNabb ever had... and he only had him for one and a half seasons.
I think Donnie Mac will take our WR's to a new level.
so you think the offensive line will be much better this year? I know it's hard to imagine that it could be worse but the guys in place right now are not going to cut it :roll:
I'm sure we'll see a much better offensive line but that is going to take some pretty good coaching and some players really stepping up
Are you questioning the coaches on the team? Really people, it's April. We have so much time before training camp before we have any clue what that line - or team for that matter is going to look like. Artis Hicks looks to be a very nice pickup for us this year and he's a lock to play our RG with Williams, who wasn't bad once he got back into football shape at the end of the season (only playing guard - he was aweful at tackle). So I really see that we need to find two starters LT and RT. Then it's all about depth. Keep in mind that we have Reinhard also who can play right and left guard. But I'm not sure if that guy can ever stay healthy.
I think that our line got a lot better the second that Shannahan walked into the room but the guys that are on the line today, won't be there in a few years with the exception of who ever we draft this year and next.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:29 am
by langleyparkjoe
chiefhog44 wrote:I tell you what. McNabb, even if he doesn't win one game, will help these younger WR's develop like Farve did with the WR's in Minnesota this year.
Yea I feel you on that one.. like my man said I just hope our WRs develop skills like the viking's WRs.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:33 am
by langleyparkjoe
SJ.. last year's OL just has to be the worse the Skins ever had man. Rock bottom is probably an understatement.
Only way to go from here is up plus like Frank said it's April and the moves so far I think have been pretty good. Don't worry homie, our organization seems to be looking a lot more positive and I don't think Shan/Allen are gonna mess it up anymore but only improve things.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 10:17 am
by CanesSkins26
frankcal20 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:Skinsfan55 wrote:If we can build a competent line I am excited about what McNabb will do for Moss,
ey, Davis, Thomas and Kelly. Remember what McNabb did with Todd Pinkston, Freddy Mitchell, James Thrash, Reggie Brown and Greg Lewis? T.O. was the best wideout McNabb ever had... and he only had him for one and a half seasons.
I think Donnie Mac will take our WR's to a new level.
so you think the offensive line will be much better this year? I know it's hard to imagine that it could be worse but the guys in place right now are not going to cut it
I'm sure we'll see a much better offensive line but that is going to take some pretty good coaching and some players really stepping up
Are you questioning the coaches on the team? Really people, it's April. We have so much time before training camp before we have any clue what that line - or team for that matter is going to look like. Artis Hicks looks to be a very nice pickup for us this year and he's a lock to play our RG with Williams, who wasn't bad once he got back into football shape at the end of the season (only playing guard - he was aweful at tackle). So I really see that we need to find two starters LT and RT. Then it's all about depth. Keep in mind that we have Reinhard also who can play right and left guard. But I'm not sure if that guy can ever stay healthy.
I think that our line got a lot better the second that Shannahan walked into the room but the guys that are on the line today, won't be there in a few years with the exception of who ever we draft this year and next.
First of all, Rinehart sucks. Second of all, it's only April, yes, but to be competitive this team needs an entire overhaul on the offensive line. The only legit starter that we have right now is Dockery. The rest is just patchwork. Hicks? He's started 13 total games in the past 3 seasons COMBINED, and has never started a full season. Expecting the team to somehow magically transform the oline from now until training camp is wishful think.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:29 am
by Irn-Bru
I'd say that Rabach and Dockery are both legit starters. You have to believe that we'll pick up a LT with the #4 pick. I'd say the odds are 50/50 that we will fill either the RG or RT spot with a legit starter before August. (But the odds are nearly zero that we'll get good players for both, assuming we pursue a LT in the draft).
So, that's a 50/50 shot in my view that we will have 4 legit starters out of 5 going into next season . . . but with no depth. Still, that's better than last year. Barring more than one injury at a time, it should be good enough to give a skilled QB something to work with.
Don't know how we expect to run the ball, though. Gibbs was able to make it work with only marginally better players, but he did have a much better RB.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:41 am
by brad7686
HEROHAMO wrote:brad7686 wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:I tell you what. McNabb, even if he doesn't win one game, will help these younger WR's develop like Farve did with the WR's in Minnesota this year.
I wouldn't give Favre all the credit. Those guys were first round picks and Rice is extremely talented.
?????Sidney Rice and Bernard Berrian were mere afterthoughts before Farve arrived.
Is it a coincidence that Rice had a Pro Bowl season once Farve arrived. Come on put two and two together.
I'm not talking about Berrian, I'm talking about Harvin. Although Berrian isn't bad compared to what we have.
And you can try and spin it any way you want, if you watch Rice you would see he is very talented. He brings in a lot of jump balls on his own accord.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:43 am
by langleyparkjoe
brad7686 wrote:HEROHAMO wrote:brad7686 wrote:chiefhog44 wrote:I tell you what. McNabb, even if he doesn't win one game, will help these younger WR's develop like Farve did with the WR's in Minnesota this year.
I wouldn't give Favre all the credit. Those guys were first round picks and Rice is extremely talented.
?????Sidney Rice and Bernard Berrian were mere afterthoughts before Farve arrived.
Is it a coincidence that Rice had a Pro Bowl season once Farve arrived. Come on put two and two together.
I'm not talking about Berrian, I'm talking about Harvin. Although Berrian isn't bad compared to what we have.
And you can try and spin it any way you want, if you watch Rice you would see he is very talented. He brings in a lot of jump balls on his own accord.
FYI.. Berrian was the MAN before Favre got there. I had him in fantasy so I really remember how well he did
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:44 am
by Irn-Bru
brad7686 wrote:He brings in a lot of jump balls on his own accord.
I can't remember the last jump ball that went to one of our players, aside from
ey or (in preseason) Mitchell.
Hopefully those kinds of plays will be returning soon.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:47 am
by langleyparkjoe
Irn-Bru wrote:brad7686 wrote:He brings in a lot of jump balls on his own accord.
I can't remember the last jump ball that went to one of our players, aside from
ey or (in preseason)
Mitchell.
Hopefully those kinds of plays will be returning soon.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:47 am
by VetSkinsFan
Irn-Bru wrote:brad7686 wrote:He brings in a lot of jump balls on his own accord.
I can't remember the last jump ball that went to one of our players, aside from
ey or (in preseason) Mitchell.
Hopefully those kinds of plays will be returning soon.
Mitchell was the only 1 I recall in pre-season that COULD catch a jump ball. The others looked HORRIBLE.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:48 am
by The Hogster
Sidney Rice is a prime example of how a talented receiver can make the leap with a great QB. I think we have a good shot at seeing one of our young guys (Thomas, Kelly, or even Mitchell) doing the same.
One thing is clear with Shanahan. The person who practices and prepares the best will play. If that's Mitchell or Thomas, don't be surprised if they look like monsters this year.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:49 am
by RayNAustin
I'd be on the phone with Al Davis, work a deal with the Raiders ... Give them JC, and next year's 1st, and 5th, for their 1st this year. That would give the Skins 4th and 8th overall, which would land us two of the top four OT's this year. Bada-Bing, Bada-Boom.
Then, as insurance and depth, I'd sign Flo Adams for a 1 or 2 year deal.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:03 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
CanesSkins26 wrote:A player drafted with the 5th pick of the 2nd round should be starting Day 1.
Day one of rookie year? Based on what? And normally a guy picked 5th in the second round is selected because they're the best player there, we'd be doing it on need and just hoping one worth that high a pick is there.
CanesSkins26 wrote:We could have drafted Okung in the first and gone with someone like McCoy in the 2nd round.
JC was late first round, sucked. Ramsey was late first round, sucked. Basically this is what we have now except you'd rather have Colt as a second rounder start for us, who knows if he'll ever be starting NFL caliber instead of McNabb we know is starting NFL caliber for a few more years?
CanesSkins26 wrote:If Bradford had fallen to 4 we could have attempted to trade into the first round, like the Eagles are now trying to do with our pick, to get Claussen. There are a ton of different scenarios that could have happened.
Yes, and none of them are better then the one we did. Basically Canes I laid out specific reasons this makes long term transition sense and you're not addressing those at all. You throw out scenarios, none of them you support as why they make sense over the reasons I stated McNabb did. I want to do the best for the team, if you have a better idea then try supporting it. If one actually makes more sense then what we did I'll gladly switch sides, I want what's good for the team. I know you do to, I'm not implying otherwise. You're not like the pseudo fans who just rip the team and don't support them. But you're not really analyzing the implications either of McNabb or the other paths, and yet you're taking a position. It's just weak.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:08 pm
by langleyparkjoe
I just honestly don't see Shanahan wanting to coach up a rookie when he doesn't have too with McNabb.. also I think he wants the NOW, not the later after I leave kind of thing. So for those reasons I'm glad we got McNabb.. heck, what is it like 5x pro bowler, played in a bunch of NFC championships and one superbowl.. not a bad resume at all.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:11 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:I just honestly don't see Shanahan wanting to coach up a rookie when he doesn't have too with McNabb
Actually better then that, why
start a rookie when he can both have his cake and eat it too? McNabb playing in the game while we actually get to evaluate and develop a rookie to eventually take over?
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:13 pm
by langleyparkjoe
KazooSkinsFan wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:I just honestly don't see Shanahan wanting to coach up a rookie when he doesn't have too with McNabb
Actually better then that, why
start a rookie when he can both have his cake and eat it too? McNabb playing in the game while we actually get to evaluate and develop a rookie to eventually take over?
Dude, I'm soo down for that! That's why we have COLT (with his new number)
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm
by The Hogster
Don't underestimate what the following can do.
1) McNabb getting the ball out quicker. Sure Jason got killed and our line was weak, but some of those sacks can be avoided by a guy like McNabb.
2) Actually getting the lead in games. If we don't have to throw the ball as often, we can run it control the clock and help protect our QB.
3) Shanahan's scheme. Shanahan's version of the west coast offense utilizes alot of zone blocking and misdirection on play action. Some of our scheme can result in better line play.
I do realize just like anyone else, that our OLine is the weak link. But, I do think that we can address some important needs via the draft and later in FA. Youth and depth are a gradual process though.
Posted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm
by KazooSkinsFan
langleyparkjoe wrote:KazooSkinsFan wrote:langleyparkjoe wrote:I just honestly don't see Shanahan wanting to coach up a rookie when he doesn't have too with McNabb
Actually better then that, why
start a rookie when he can both have his cake and eat it too? McNabb playing in the game while we actually get to evaluate and develop a rookie to eventually take over?
Dude, I'm soo down for that! That's why we have COLT (with his new number)
We're obviously in agreement on this. NFL QB is just too demanding a position. Other then the really rare exceptions, clipboard in year one on gameday is really the best way to start preparing a guy and having a winner like McNabb to both hold down the position and tutor a youngster is just such a great move to make to get us there. Having Campbell and a rookie is just a horrible solution for us no matter how you slice it. No matter how good JC is in practice, the guy doesn't know how to play the position on game day. How can he teach someone else to do what he can't?