The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I understand, but it doesn't take away from the fact that JC is not a leader. Does he call audibles? -- yes, as you found support for. Is JC a leader (which was what the previous poster was trying to point out) -- no, he is not.

And what, pray tell, qualifies you to make that assesment?

Because he's markshark84, Fios.

Never mind that the players think he's a leader:

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

But while LaCanboreya has private interviews with players, and he could not find a single player, not one to say, on-the-record or off-the record, that Campbell isn't the leader...markshark84 knows differently.

Of course there going to say he is a leader, were not a team full To's. NOt only that, JC was a Snyder pick, he was Snyder's guy, so bad mouthing him is indirectly bad mouthing there boss. They say it, but do they mean it. Basing it on last year and how the players responded to Campbell, in comparison to how they responded to Collins, than hell no the players are not telling the truth when they say JC is a leader. They say he is a leader, but deep down inside they don't think he is.

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I understand, but it doesn't take away from the fact that JC is not a leader. Does he call audibles? -- yes, as you found support for. Is JC a leader (which was what the previous poster was trying to point out) -- no, he is not.

And what, pray tell, qualifies you to make that assesment?

Because he's markshark84, Fios.

Never mind that the players think he's a leader:

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

But while LaCanboreya has private interviews with players, and he could not find a single player, not one to say, on-the-record or off-the record, that Campbell isn't the leader...markshark84 knows differently.

Of course there going to say he is a leader, were not a team full To's. NOt only that, JC was a Snyder pick, he was Snyder's guy, so bad mouthing him is indirectly bad mouthing there boss. They say it, but do they mean it. Basing it on last year and how the players responded to Campbell, in comparison to how they responded to Collins, than hell no the players are not telling the truth when they say JC is a leader. They say he is a leader, but deep down inside they don't think he is.

By the way, I was actually talking to my friend the other day and I was telling him why I wanted to start Colt Brennan. Basically I was saying that Colt showed a fistiness, a fireness, a competitiveness to him that I haven't seen from a Skins Qb (besides Collins in a while) and he said YOU MEAN HEART. I said yeah, JC has not shown any heart since we drafted him, thats the main reseason I want to start Colt this weekend. Hell I wouldn't mind starting Collins he has earned it, he deserves it more, Collins took us to the playoffs. What has JC done for the Skins besides piss away two seasons for us. If we started Todd last year (4-0 in the regular season when he started), we may have won the division last year. A NEW QB THIS SUNDAY IS A MUST if we want to start winning again.

The players reactions to Campbell do not coincide with their words, ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS.

John Manfreda wrote:Of course there going to say he is a leader, were not a team full To's. NOt only that, JC was a Snyder pick, he was Snyder's guy, so bad mouthing him is indirectly bad mouthing there boss. They say it, but do they mean it. Basing it on last year and how the players responded to Campbell, in comparison to how they responded to Collins, than hell no the players are not telling the truth when they say JC is a leader. They say he is a leader, but deep down inside they don't think he is.

So, you read my post, and the information I posted, and you still come up with this drivel? Do you understand what an off-the-record statement is, and how a player could make a statement supporting your thoughts without repercussion...but no player has done so? Just because you want it to be one way, doesn't make it so.

If you truly believe that the players and coaches think JC is not a leader, post some evidence in support of that assertion, beyond just reiterating your own opinion.

I did.

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I understand, but it doesn't take away from the fact that JC is not a leader. Does he call audibles? -- yes, as you found support for. Is JC a leader (which was what the previous poster was trying to point out) -- no, he is not.

And what, pray tell, qualifies you to make that assesment?

Because he's markshark84, Fios.

Never mind that the players think he's a leader:

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

But while LaCanboreya has private interviews with players, and he could not find a single player, not one to say, on-the-record or off-the record, that Campbell isn't the leader...markshark84 knows differently.

And of course the the players are always completely honest with the press, and wouldn't hesitate to criticize the play of one of their teammates publicly.

And, you wouldn't hear off-the-record comments....because they are what? Oh.....off the record.

RayNAustin wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I understand, but it doesn't take away from the fact that JC is not a leader. Does he call audibles? -- yes, as you found support for. Is JC a leader (which was what the previous poster was trying to point out) -- no, he is not.

And what, pray tell, qualifies you to make that assesment?

Because he's markshark84, Fios.

Never mind that the players think he's a leader:

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

But while LaCanboreya has private interviews with players, and he could not find a single player, not one to say, on-the-record or off-the record, that Campbell isn't the leader...markshark84 knows differently.

And of course the the players are always completely honest with the press, and wouldn't hesitate to criticize the play of one of their teammates publicly.

And, you wouldn't hear off-the-record comments....because they are what? Oh.....off the record.

You have a keen understanding of the press ...

RayNAustin wrote:And, you wouldn't hear off-the-record comments....because they are what? Oh.....off the record.

Lol. Another one who doesn't understand the use of confidential information.

Ever seen someone say "Unnamed sources?" Well..that's exactly where that information would be reported.

"An unnamed player agreed that Campbell was the problem with the passing game."

It's as easy as that, and the journalist would never report the source (because he would instantly lose any credibility with future players). We've seen it multiple times from JLC in the past, with respect to comments made by players about Joe Gibbs, etc.

However, you don't see that...at all with Campbell, do you?

PulpExposure wrote:

Fios wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I understand, but it doesn't take away from the fact that JC is not a leader. Does he call audibles? -- yes, as you found support for. Is JC a leader (which was what the previous poster was trying to point out) -- no, he is not.

And what, pray tell, qualifies you to make that assesment?

Because he's markshark84, Fios.

Never mind that the players think he's a leader:

This is shaping up to be one of those weeks in which we end up talking a ton about the quarterback even though there are a bevy of more pressing issues.

Many of Jason Campbell's teammates are being asked about his leadership skills, whether he has "it" - you know, that magic intangible that determines whether a dude turns out like John Elway or Gary Hogeboom. Even in private chats with players, I haven't heard anyone doubt Campbell's ability to perform or command a huddle or lead a team.

"It's the leadership in practice and leadership in the huddle," Antwaan Randle El said. "He does what you would expect out of your quarterback. Most quarterbacks do what people expect them to do as a quarterback. But some have that extra edge like Jason has, in terms of being able to get out of the pocket and making plays. That extra edge in terms of when things are down keeping everybody upbeat and those things, and just making sure we're going in the right direction.

"And I think that's what he's doing. Again, it's not all on him, but the perception is always going to be that he's the lightning rod, and the quarterback will be attacked more than anybody."

If anybody in that locker room truly believed that Todd Collins gives this team a better chance at winning, I'd report it. But this is seen from within as Campbell's team, with the noise coming from outside.

But while LaCanboreya has private interviews with players, and he could not find a single player, not one to say, on-the-record or off-the record, that Campbell isn't the leader...markshark84 knows differently.

Really? Really? You really believe this. You really think these guys are STUPID enough to make a statement ---- off the record or on. Are you that thick? Do you honestly believe this? This is unreal.

I cannot believe that players wouldn't tell the washingtonpost blogger that JC wasn't a leader. Because of course, he wouldn't have posted that on his site. He has more integrity than that. Of course not. After all, he is a journalist. And they know this but still won't spill the beans on an issue that would become the next TO-Romo-Witten ordeal. '

And I have never seen another player practicing to become a TV guy post-career more than ARE. He was just practicing for his next gig. But, hey of course he would be the one to "issue" the statement.

Come on. Get real. I get my information by what takes place on the field, not by what is said in "off the record" political statements by players. Is that so crazy? Besides, games are won on the field, not by what is said to reporters.

Hey, if you think that JC is an AWESOME QB, that is fine. But his body of work is not impressive. You can offer him up all the excuses you want or support them by handcuffed political statements by players. That's cool. Have at it. But look at true leader QBs and compare them to JC. It's pretty pathetic.

markshark84 wrote:
Really? Really? You really believe this. You really think these guys are STUPID enough to make a statement ---- off the record or on. Are you that thick? Do you honestly believe this? This is unreal.

If I could cut through your rambling for a second...

Not one player on or off the record has said anything negative about Campbell.

Now try to follow. No coach, former/current teammate, or sports personality have ever said anything negative about Jason Campbell.

So while you go by what you see on the field I choose to ignore your stunning analysis.

His teammates who are actually on the field and who see him play every week say he's a good quarterback. Not to mentions Scouts Inc. who gives him a good rating.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
Really? Really? You really believe this. You really think these guys are STUPID enough to make a statement ---- off the record or on. Are you that thick? Do you honestly believe this? This is unreal.

If I could cut through your rambling for a second...

Not one player on or off the record has said anything negative about Campbell.

Now try to follow. No coach, former/current teammate, or sports personality have ever said anything negative about Jason Campbell.

So while you go by what you see on the field I choose to ignore your stunning analysis.

His teammates who are actually on the field and who see him play every week say he's a good quarterback. Not to mentions Scouts Inc. who gives him a good rating.

Players won't say JC is the problem, yet.

He's not the problem, but hardly the solution. His somber attitude impregnates through the hole offense. He's a little too cool, IMO. In football you need leaders at QB, the most visible position on the field or the whole group starts to come out of shape eventually. I think that's what we've seen these last 6 weeks.

If the offense plays these last two games as bad as they have played for the last month, I can assure you there will be a lot of named and unnamed sources asking Campbell to step it up.

Next year we'll see an open competiton at QB, that should give us a better understanding of JC's mentality.

PulpExposure wrote:

John Manfreda wrote:Of course there going to say he is a leader, were not a team full To's. NOt only that, JC was a Snyder pick, he was Snyder's guy, so bad mouthing him is indirectly bad mouthing there boss. They say it, but do they mean it. Basing it on last year and how the players responded to Campbell, in comparison to how they responded to Collins, than hell no the players are not telling the truth when they say JC is a leader. They say he is a leader, but deep down inside they don't think he is.

So, you read my post, and the information I posted, and you still come up with this drivel? Do you understand what an off-the-record statement is, and how a player could make a statement supporting your thoughts without repercussion...but no player has done so? Just because you want it to be one way, doesn't make it so.

If you truly believe that the players and coaches think JC is not a leader, post some evidence in support of that assertion, beyond just reiterating your own opinion.

I did.

I have a friend in journalism and he even said nothing is ever really off the record. These reporters you know, you can really trust them.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:
Really? Really? You really believe this. You really think these guys are STUPID enough to make a statement ---- off the record or on. Are you that thick? Do you honestly believe this? This is unreal.

If I could cut through your rambling for a second...

Not one player on or off the record has said anything negative about Campbell.

Now try to follow. No coach, former/current teammate, or sports personality have ever said anything negative about Jason Campbell.

So while you go by what you see on the field I choose to ignore your stunning analysis.

His teammates who are actually on the field and who see him play every week say he's a good quarterback. Not to mentions Scouts Inc. who gives him a good rating.

I guess you don't really understand my "rambling" then. To dumb it down a little, I am saying that of course no one is saying bad things about the starting QB. It would not be in their best interests to divide the team or to put down the person that is responsible for getting you the ball. Did you not get that? It would create problems behind the scenes and we do have smart guys on our squad.

You don't have to listen to my analysis, but his stats don't lie. His 4 year performance record is not good. His win loss record as a starter is not good or average at 13-20. It is glaringly obvious that he is not a leader on the field. But hey, nobody says anything bad about him. But I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact he is a likeable guy and not that he is 13-20 as a starter or has a passer rating of around 70 in his past 6 games and "lead" us to a 1-5 record.

Oh and I appreciate that scouts.com places him as a "good" ranking. It helps me sleep better at night knowing they approve.

For those few of you that have been lobbying for Collins, I'm just curious if you have any direct quotes from any expert, former or current player/coach or any related professional analyst stating Collins is the better, more talented QB and that JC should be benched in favor of Collins. Seriously, I'd like to see it.

And even though some of you think Jason La Canfora is an expert (at what, I have no idea) his quotes are not what I'm looking for.

And even though some of you think Jason La Canfora is an expert (at what, I have no idea) his quotes are not what I'm looking for.

I think you are unfairly limiting the availible resources, just to make it impossible to argue with you.

Countertrey wrote:

And even though some of you think Jason La Canfora is an expert (at what, I have no idea) his quotes are not what I'm looking for.

I think you are unfairly limiting the availible resources, just to make it impossible to argue with you.

markshark84 wrote:I guess you don't really understand my "rambling" then. To dumb it down a little, I am saying that of course no one is saying bad things about the starting QB. It would not be in their best interests to divide the team or to put down the person that is responsible for getting you the ball. Did you not get that? It would create problems behind the scenes and we do have smart guys on our squad.

You don't have to listen to my analysis, but his stats don't lie. His 4 year performance record is not good. His win loss record as a starter is not good or average at 13-20. It is glaringly obvious that he is not a leader on the field. But hey, nobody says anything bad about him. But I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact he is a likeable guy and not that he is 13-20 as a starter or has a passer rating of around 70 in his past 6 games and "lead" us to a 1-5 record.

Oh and I appreciate that scouts.com places him as a "good" ranking. It helps me sleep better at night knowing they approve.

As other posters have noted, players were saying negative things about Coach Gibbs when he was here, off the record. If there was even one player on the team who thought we should make a change or upgrade at QB we would have heard about it because he would have at least mentioned it to one of the dozens of reporters covering the team. (Unless they mentioned it to Larry Michael in which case he'd cover his ears while he hummed 'Hail to the Redskins')

The fact is, the players, coaches and all the people actually in sports think he's a talented quarterback.

Also, while quarterback is the most important position on the field, a good one can't win games by himself. Carson Palmer is one of the best in the NFL and his Bengals went 8-8 in 2006 when he went to the Pro Bowl, 7-9 the next season. Phillip Rivers should have gone to the Pro Bowl this season but got robbed. His team has struggled terribly despite his personal best season. Marc Bulger is a two time pro bowler and his teams suck.

You'll notice that Jason Campbell has been sacked 34 times. One of the highest numbers in the NFL. It's hard to put up numbers when you're on your back.

Lastly, I never said anything about scouts.com thank you. I attributed his "Good Starter" rating to Scouts. Inc. You know, the premier scouting agency in the country? The one that professional teams sometimes use and that almost all major sports news outlets rely on for statistics?

definately not a fan of Campbell. We drafted this guy for two reasons.
1. Gibbs got off on his wholesome personality during their meetings
2. He threw the ball far at workouts

We obviously didn't look at his total body of work. He only had one good year of college ball. That is only because teams had to stack 8 in the box to stop Cadillac Williams and Ronnie Brown. Two top 5 draft picks. Recievers were running wide open for him that year. This tricked our idiot front office into reaching into the first round to draft this Bum. I was seriously crossing my fingers saying please not Campbell when our pick came. Pretty funny looking back on it.

collins is what

accurate, less arm strength than cambell, slower, my be able to place the ball better than cambell and is a good decision maker.
should he get the nood well I don't know the coach may start cambell and may might pull the old switch aroony...
from what I have seen of cambell he is w/out drops getting a completion persentage ranging between 59 and 70 percent depending on the defensive line that were facing. with drops it is 59 or less percent.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I guess you don't really understand my "rambling" then. To dumb it down a little, I am saying that of course no one is saying bad things about the starting QB. It would not be in their best interests to divide the team or to put down the person that is responsible for getting you the ball. Did you not get that? It would create problems behind the scenes and we do have smart guys on our squad.

You don't have to listen to my analysis, but his stats don't lie. His 4 year performance record is not good. His win loss record as a starter is not good or average at 13-20. It is glaringly obvious that he is not a leader on the field. But hey, nobody says anything bad about him. But I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact he is a likeable guy and not that he is 13-20 as a starter or has a passer rating of around 70 in his past 6 games and "lead" us to a 1-5 record.

Oh and I appreciate that scouts.com places him as a "good" ranking. It helps me sleep better at night knowing they approve.

As other posters have noted, players were saying negative things about Coach Gibbs when he was here, off the record. If there was even one player on the team who thought we should make a change or upgrade at QB we would have heard about it because he would have at least mentioned it to one of the dozens of reporters covering the team. (Unless they mentioned it to Larry Michael in which case he'd cover his ears while he hummed 'Hail to the Redskins')

The fact is, the players, coaches and all the people actually in sports think he's a talented quarterback.

Also, while quarterback is the most important position on the field, a good one can't win games by himself. Carson Palmer is one of the best in the NFL and his Bengals went 8-8 in 2006 when he went to the Pro Bowl, 7-9 the next season. Phillip Rivers should have gone to the Pro Bowl this season but got robbed. His team has struggled terribly despite his personal best season. Marc Bulger is a two time pro bowler and his teams suck.

You'll notice that Jason Campbell has been sacked 34 times. One of the highest numbers in the NFL. It's hard to put up numbers when you're on your back.

Lastly, I never said anything about scouts.com thank you. I attributed his "Good Starter" rating to Scouts. Inc. You know, the premier scouting agency in the country? The one that professional teams sometimes use and that almost all major sports news outlets rely on for statistics?

Understand what you are saying, but disagree....totally. In terms of QBs not winning games on their own and citing Palmer and Rivers is irrelevent. Both the bengals and chargers defenses were nothing compared to ours this year. We have AVERAGED 11 POINTS per game over the past 6 games. I am confident that neither Palmer nor Rivers nor Bulger ever averaged 11 ppg in any span in their career.

Also Cassell has been sacked 44 times this year. He's having a fairly decent year. Cassell doesn't hold onto the ball for 5 seconds in the pocket like JC does. That is one of JC's glaring weaknesses.

In terms of the scout thing. You said it not me. I only use scout.com for college basketball recruiting and didn't even know it "scouted" pros. And it is sad if pro scouts use that in any capacity as a scouting tool (if it is as accurate for college basketball as it is for football)

Lastly, players have been saying bad things about Zorn -- on the record. Players have historically made statements about coaches but never made statements at QBs or other players on the team. So I understand what you are saying about Gibbs, but I think that you cannot say that because players do make statements toward the coaches, but they will not make statements towards players....because it is historically rarely done. I don't even remember any players saying anything about Brunell in his heyday here.

Skinsfan55 wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I guess you don't really understand my "rambling" then. To dumb it down a little, I am saying that of course no one is saying bad things about the starting QB. It would not be in their best interests to divide the team or to put down the person that is responsible for getting you the ball. Did you not get that? It would create problems behind the scenes and we do have smart guys on our squad.

You don't have to listen to my analysis, but his stats don't lie. His 4 year performance record is not good. His win loss record as a starter is not good or average at 13-20. It is glaringly obvious that he is not a leader on the field. But hey, nobody says anything bad about him. But I am sure that has nothing to do with the fact he is a likeable guy and not that he is 13-20 as a starter or has a passer rating of around 70 in his past 6 games and "lead" us to a 1-5 record.

Oh and I appreciate that scouts.com places him as a "good" ranking. It helps me sleep better at night knowing they approve.

As other posters have noted, players were saying negative things about Coach Gibbs when he was here, off the record. If there was even one player on the team who thought we should make a change or upgrade at QB we would have heard about it because he would have at least mentioned it to one of the dozens of reporters covering the team. (Unless they mentioned it to Larry Michael in which case he'd cover his ears while he hummed 'Hail to the Redskins')

The fact is, the players, coaches and all the people actually in sports think he's a talented quarterback.

Also, while quarterback is the most important position on the field, a good one can't win games by himself. Carson Palmer is one of the best in the NFL and his Bengals went 8-8 in 2006 when he went to the Pro Bowl, 7-9 the next season. Phillip Rivers should have gone to the Pro Bowl this season but got robbed. His team has struggled terribly despite his personal best season. Marc Bulger is a two time pro bowler and his teams suck.

You'll notice that Jason Campbell has been sacked 34 times. One of the highest numbers in the NFL. It's hard to put up numbers when you're on your back.

Lastly, I never said anything about scouts.com thank you. I attributed his "Good Starter" rating to Scouts. Inc. You know, the premier scouting agency in the country? The one that professional teams sometimes use and that almost all major sports news outlets rely on for statistics?

Understand what you are saying, but disagree....totally. In terms of QBs not winning games on their own and citing Palmer and Rivers is irrelevent. Both the bengals and chargers defenses were nothing compared to ours this year. Our offense has AVERAGED 11 POINTS per game over the past 6 games. I am confident that neither Palmer nor Rivers nor Bulger ever averaged 11 ppg in any span in their career.

Also Cassell has been sacked 44 times this year. He's having a fairly decent year. Cassell doesn't hold onto the ball for 5 seconds in the pocket like JC does. That is one of JC's glaring weaknesses.

In terms of the scout thing. You said it not me. I only use scout.com for college basketball recruiting and didn't even know it "scouted" pros. And it is sad if pro scouts use that in any capacity as a scouting tool (if it is as accurate for college basketball as it is for football)

Lastly, players have been saying bad things about Zorn -- on the record. Players have historically made statements about coaches but never made statements at QBs or other players on the team. So I understand what you are saying about Gibbs, but I think that you cannot say that because players do make statements toward the coaches, but they will not make statements towards players....because it is historically rarely done. I don't even remember any players saying anything about Brunell in his heyday here.

Players have historically made statements about coaches but never made statements at QBs or other players on the team.

This is one of the most ludicrous "statements of fact" I believe I have encountered. Whenever ANY team has a controversy at who should play at QB, there will be word that sneaks out about what the players are thinking... Trust me, it happened during the "Sonny vs Billy" days in DC, it happened during the "Simms vs Hostetler" days in NY, it happened during the "Dandy Don vs Staubach" days in Dallas. If players are not satisfied with the play at QB, they will find a was to make their opinion known to the press.

Ludicrous. Just because it has not happened in YOUR experience, does not mean it doesn't happen... If players were not happy with Campbell, you would know about it.

S-C-O-U-T-S . I-N-C
X
S-C-O-U-T . C-O-M

Scout.com actually kind of sucks, Scouts Inc. is a completely different entity.

Countertrey wrote:

Players have historically made statements about coaches but never made statements at QBs or other players on the team.

This is one of the most ludicrous "statements of fact" I believe I have encountered. Whenever ANY team has a controversy at who should play at QB, there will be word that sneaks out about what the players are thinking... Trust me, it happened during the "Sonny vs Billy" days in DC, it happened during the "Simms vs Hostetler" days in NY, it happened during the "Dandy Don vs Staubach" days in Dallas. If players are not satisfied with the play at QB, they will find a was to make their opinion known to the press.

Ludicrous. Just because it has not happened in YOUR experience, does not mean it doesn't happen... If players were not happy with Campbell, you would know about it.

Okay so it happened 30 years ago......and in times of QB controversy. Neither of which is happening right now. There is no QB controversy. Please stick to the "facts" on this one. Right now JC is the solidified starter. No one is going to come out and say anything if they were smart; and they are. So again, if there was a QB controversy right now and it was 20-40 years ago, you would have a point, but times have changed and media relations has also, so lets stick to present day here.

Neither of which is happening right now. There is no QB controversy.

Oh.... so, I guess I just can't remember the name of this thread, huh?
Oh... so, I guess there are no discussions about replacing Campbell with Collins. I guess there are no discussions about giving Brennan his shot. There are no discussions about using a draft pick on a QB...

My mistake...

Countertrey wrote:

Neither of which is happening right now. There is no QB controversy.

Oh.... so, I guess I just can't remember the name of this thread, huh?
Oh... so, I guess there are no discussions about replacing Campbell with Collins. I guess there are no discussions about giving Brennan his shot. There are no discussions about using a draft pick on a QB...

My mistake...

Are you serious. Do you really think there is a QB controversy that is similar to the ones you sited?

No, as I said JC is the solidified starter here. I have not heard any discussions presented by Zorn stating the potential of another QB playing in replacement of JC. There is no QB controversy here.

So, yes you are mistaken. The fact that thehogs.net has a replace JC thread doesn't mean that there is a controversy.

Also, I am watching the NE-Cards game and man am I impressed with Cassell. He would have been a great pick. He's been sacked 10 MORE times than JC has this year, but has a quicker release, great decision making, and he doesn't hold onto the ball forever in the pocket. Compared to JC's second best game this season, Cassell already has comparable numbers after only playing one half of the game....