The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

DEHog wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:I would like to see an outside agency come in and review our training staff/programs.

Would be interesting to know which injuries were preventable. The broken legs, concussions, torn pecs, nerve damaged shins, torn ACLs, etc; etc; https://www.pro-football-reference.com/ ... juries.htm It's a violent sport.

I'm sure the training staff would like to know too

+1
You'd think that someone would be all over this - the last 2 seasons have been brutal but the injuries this franchise has suffered over the past 10 seasons have not seemed consistent with the rest of the NFL or is that not so?

SkinsJock wrote:why is that? who is responsible for that? WHY should ANYONE think that things will get better if we keep doing the same things?

Yeah man, I don't think its any big mystery. You correctly pointed out that the team specifically messed up badly (and repeatedly) on addressing the quarterback.

On one hand, this stuff happens to a lot of teams. Plenty of teams draft a QB in the first round or whatever (Bortles, Tannehill, etc;) and the guy doesn't work out. But our team had to create such a huge mess with both the RG3 and Cousins situations. Not to mention what we're facing with Alex Smith.

Bruce Allen has to go. I'm not sure there is any quick fix though for whoever takes his place. Maybe our best hope is that Josh Johnson has some sort of late blooming Doug Flutie type career and rescues this franchise!!! hah.

SkinsJock wrote:You'd think that someone would be all over this - the last 2 seasons have been brutal but the injuries this franchise has suffered over the past 10 seasons have not seemed consistent with the rest of the NFL or is that not so?

It hasn't been a 10 season issue. We've been nailed with injuries badly the past TWO years.

Sorry but I'm not buying that the training staff or coaches have some magic sauce to prevent Colt McCoy's leg from breaking or Guice from tearing his ACL. Look around the league, every team loses players through the year. Its just been our year to lead the league in that category unfortunately.

The team? Ouch. But I'm happy that Josh Johnson will start another game. How can someone NOT root for the guy?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/2 ... b4fbe89d29

Josh Johnson, now on his 12th team, has Redskins believing: ‘What do we really have to lose?’

By Les Carpenter December 21 at 7:30 AM

There always have been explanations for why Johnson keeps getting released. Gruden, who was an assistant on his brother Jon’s staff at Tampa Bay when the Buccaneers drafted and eventually played Johnson for a few games there, describes how the young Johnson would sometimes throw a perfect 80-yard pass and then bounce the next one into the ground: “He will drive you crazy that way,” Gruden says with a chuckle.

But that was years ago. All Johnson remembers about Gruden then, and later when they were together at Cincinnati, are the good things: the advice, the coaching, the way he got better. And so, given the opportunity he has waited a lifetime to have, Johnson doesn’t want to simmer over the broken chances, the disappointments, the unfairness of it all.

“I’m not the only guy it’s happened to,” he says of the long list of players released by NFL teams. “What most people don’t realize is the NFL Network and ESPN, they only show you the life of 10 percent of the roster. The top guys. What I fall victim to is what the real NFL is all about — the guys who get caught in the shuffle, [the] practice squad, some guys get signed today, get cut tomorrow. So I mean, you get frustrated, but I really don’t look at it as I get mad. … I took it all as an opportunity to learn.”

welch wrote:The team? Ouch. But I'm happy that Josh Johnson will start another game. How can someone NOT root for the guy?

I'll be rooting for him!

I wouldn't be opposed to them giving Johnson next season to see what he can do with a year learning the system and a healthy and hopefully improved offensive roster.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to them giving Johnson next season to see what he can do with a year learning the system and a healthy and hopefully improved offensive roster.

Seems like a reasonable plan. With our luck though, he'll put up two ridiculous games the next two weeks. Pass for 300 yards, 3 TDs and rush for 50. And some other team will offer him $12m next year.

I'm hoping that Johnson has a magical 2 weeks and I hope he gets a fabulous offer from someone to play QB next year - not sure that I would pay him a lot of money to be a starting QB; then again it's Dan's money and if he doesn't bring in better people to operate and manage this franchise he deserves it

riggofan wrote: .. Its ludicrous to think there is some coaching fix when you're on your fourth string QB, and last year was just as bad on the defensive side. Its not like this is an old roster or anything either where guys are more likely to get hurt. Its nothing but bad luck to have guys like Guice tearing ACLs. I don't think the injuries will be an "excuse" but I don't see how anyone doesn't think its killed this season. How many penalties did those guards filling in for Scherff draw on Sunday? Brutal.

WRONG! - it's not a 'coaching fix' ... it's a culture fix ...

the injuries are a real concern but the fact remains that this franchise has been badly managed and hurt by bad decisions over a long time ...

before this season began and for some time we have not been a very well respected franchise - we need to take steps to correct this

something needs to be done to change the culture here and I don't see how that happens if we keep the same people in charge and keep doing the same stupid things - please explain what I'm missing

I'm getting the feeling that some think that if we hadn't been hit by 2 bad seasons of injuries, we might be headed in the right direction - TOTAL CRAP

this is a less than mediocre franchise and it will continue to be one, injuries or not

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I wouldn't be opposed to them giving Johnson next season to see what he can do with a year learning the system and a healthy and hopefully improved offensive roster.

Can he pull a Tony Banks and lead us to 8-8 or better?

Of course I'll be rooting for him, but any sane person can see
this team has too many holes to be competitive every week.

Just yesterday I watched on YouTube an old Redskins vs Giants game from 1990. Week six, specifically, at RFK.
Gibbs, The Tuna, LT, The Posse, The Hogs, Byner-Riggs. The works. (No Rypien, though. He was injured).
Man, even when losing against a team that won the Super Bowl that year, that was one impressive group.
Pound for pound, man for man, every single play was a joy to watch. High-level football all around.

This is my benchmark.

I haven't seen that level of play from any Redskin team of the Gruden era. Not even in short bursts.
So yeah, I'll dream JJ can take us to the playoffs, but I'll keep my feet on the ground.

OK, in the spirit of the season, let's keep everyone and hope that the people in charge are going to somehow become good at what they do and this franchise will again become a place where good coaches and players want to come and be a part of a competitive franchise

get a grip people ... we are going to continue to be a mediocre franchise if we don't do things differently here ...

keep everybody - just change the way we do things

Several posts have talked about injuries. This is the second year that the Redskins have been hit with major injury numbers. What gives? Do the Redskins not have a trainer who is responsible for making sure these athletes are properly conditioned? I remember many years ago (about 50) when the Redskin players worked at other jobs during the off season. My mother was an accountant and had a moving company client that used to hire 6, 7 or 8 of the players to work for them moving furniture in the off season. Who is responsible for making sure the players at in fit condition? It seems that the injuries are mostly the same type.

aswas71788 wrote:Several posts have talked about injuries. This is the second year that the Redskins have been hit with major injury numbers. What gives? Do the Redskins not have a trainer who is responsible for making sure these athletes are properly conditioned? I remember many years ago (about 50) when the Redskin players worked at other jobs during the off season. My mother was an accountant and had a moving company client that used to hire 6, 7 or 8 of the players to work for them moving furniture in the off season. Who is responsible for making sure the players at in fit condition? It seems that the injuries are mostly the same type.

Is there some trainer that specializes in preventing broken legs? Hire that guy.

riggofan wrote:Is there some trainer that specializes in preventing broken legs? Hire that guy.

I'd rather hire a guy who specializes in breaking legs ... and making offers Dan Snyder can't refuse. But, in all seriousness, even though the Redskins do seem to have a higher than average number of injuries every season some of them are simply not a result of training or conditioning. Being out of game shape is not a complaint I've ever heard about Smith, McCoy, Allen, Guice, etc. Maybe the problem is something else, like practices being too soft or players playing not to get injured.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:You'd think that someone would be all over this - the last 2 seasons have been brutal but the injuries this franchise has suffered over the past 10 seasons have not seemed consistent with the rest of the NFL or is that not so?

It hasn't been a 10 season issue. We've been nailed with injuries badly the past TWO years.
Sorry but I'm not buying that the training staff or coaches have some magic sauce to prevent Colt McCoy's leg from breaking or Guice from tearing his ACL. Look around the league, every team loses players through the year. Its just been our year to lead the league in that category unfortunately.

I'm not saying or insinuating that the training staff "have some magic sauce ..." or are doing anything to cause this to happen - we all know that injuries are a part of the NFL BUT IMO this franchise has been more affected by injuries than most teams over the past 10 seasons and someone should at least look into why that is the case

I am optimistic about Johnson and I hope that he gets a chance to contribute here or somewhere down the road

I just cannot understand why I should agree with those here that think that the guys in charge here (whose record has led to a mediocre win loss record EACH AND EVERY SEASON) are going to be able to put a competitive group on the field next season especially in light of the stupid QB situation that we are in - I think that someone posted that this roster was looking pretty good until we got hit with a bunch of unbelievable injuries - so is that it? It was just bad luck so it's no big deal - how can anyone look at the win loss record since Allen came in and say that this FO just needs more time and a little bit of luck? GIVE ME A BREAK - I'm advocating cleaning house here BECAUSE this cannot all be blamed on just Bruce Allen - a bunch of people have to be let go BUT maybe not Jay Gruden - let the new GM make that call - I'm not a Jay Gruden fan but he's not a bad HC - The FO is BAD! UNLESS we clean out everyone in the FO there's really no point in doing too much because if we're not doing things in a VERY different way here in a few months time, we all know what to expect next season ... more of the same disappointment

looking forward to Josh Johnson having a magical time out at FedEX Field on Sunday - this off season, not so much

SJ... We get it.

We have seen soooooo many reboots fail over the years is why some of us 2ant to see what 'staying the course' nets.. Something that is alien to skins fans- accepting a mediocre season, and no knee jerk reactions to fire everyone. Its called patience. We HAVE drastically reduced the average age on the roster, and increased the talent level. Who knows why we have suffered so many injuries- that isht sucks hard! BUT, before 20 + to IR we did have the best roster I have seen in years!

So idk... Clean house... Reboot... Rebuild... Smh idk man we have seen that mess just spin around and around. On that note- NO ONE should feel 'safe' about their job security

ckRGiii - I don't think you (& whomever 'we' is) do get it - staying the course is OK if there's some reason to stick with the game plan - since 1999 this franchise has demonstrated a clear lack of leadership and bad planning combined with some horrendously bad decisions - explaining that Bruce Allen has done this and that right is not helping this franchise get better - we're mired in mediocrity with he and his FO managing things

I get the knee jerk reaction but this is not that - this is a franchise in desperate need of a GM with control to turn the franchise around - the course we are on has very little upside and for the most part depends on us being lucky enough

we need to become a franchise that makes sure we don't need to get lucky to being better than we have PROVEN to be over the past 10 years

I disagree that making changes to the way we manage this franchise is a knee jerk reaction - it's the only way to turn the ship around

In case anyone missed any of his other four posts on this page that say exactly the same thing ...

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not saying or insinuating that the training staff "have some magic sauce ..." or are doing anything to cause this to happen - we all know that injuries are a part of the NFL BUT IMO this franchise has been more affected by injuries than most teams over the past 10 seasons and someone should at least look into why that is the case

I just don't personally buy that its a training staff issue. Teams have invested millions in these athletes and have millions more reasons to keep them healthy into the playoffs. I feel pretty confident that they're getting the best sports medicine available.

We have been in the top half of the league though with players on the IR for the past several years from what I can tell. Not #1 always, but still near the top. I'd be more willing to buy some other reasons such as:

1) Lack of quality depth? Possible that our key guys are playing more downs because we don't have the depth to rotate?
2) Injuries from starting low quality players? I think if you look at the Alex Smith injury for example you can blame it almost directly on whichever third string RB it was who missed that block.
3) Players down on the franchise, giving up just don't care. If you really don't give a crap about the team, isn't it easier to go on the IR and collect your paycheck? Guys on good teams are more willing to battle through injury.
4) Relying on too many old players or players with injury histories?
5) Too much contact or not enough contact at practice?

Just some thoughts off the top of my head, but these things seem more likely to me than the trainers not having them stretch properly or something.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not saying or insinuating that the training staff "have some magic sauce ..." or are doing anything to cause this to happen - we all know that injuries are a part of the NFL BUT IMO this franchise has been more affected by injuries than most teams over the past 10 seasons and someone should at least look into why that is the case

I just don't personally buy that its a training staff issue. Teams have invested millions in these athletes and have millions more reasons to keep them healthy into the playoffs. I feel pretty confident that they're getting the best sports medicine available.

We have been in the top half of the league though with players on the IR for the past several years from what I can tell. Not #1 always, but still near the top. I'd be more willing to buy some other reasons such as:

1) Lack of quality depth? Possible that our key guys are playing more downs because we don't have the depth to rotate?
2) Injuries from starting low quality players? I think if you look at the Alex Smith injury for example you can blame it almost directly on whichever third string RB it was who missed that block.
3) Players down on the franchise, giving up just don't care. If you really don't give a crap about the team, isn't it easier to go on the IR and collect your paycheck? Guys on good teams are more willing to battle through injury.
4) Relying on too many old players or players with injury histories?
5) Too much contact or not enough contact at practice?

Just some thoughts off the top of my head, but these things seem more likely to me than the trainers not having them stretch properly or something.

Hence my comment about have an outside agency review the training staff/program.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm not saying or insinuating that the training staff "have some magic sauce ..." or are doing anything to cause this to happen - we all know that injuries are a part of the NFL BUT IMO this franchise has been more affected by injuries than most teams over the past 10 seasons and someone should at least look into why that is the case

I just don't personally buy that its a training staff issue. Teams have invested millions in these athletes and have millions more reasons to keep them healthy into the playoffs. I feel pretty confident that they're getting the best sports medicine available...

I didn't say or insinuate that it was a training staff issue I just agreed with DEHog that it's an 'issue' for this franchise that needs looking at

SkinsJock wrote:I didn't say or insinuate that it was a training staff issue I just agreed with DEHog that it's an 'issue' for this franchise that needs looking at

At least four posters in this thread have said/insinuated that its something to do with the training staff and preparation. If that's not your position, no worry.

DEHog wrote:

1) Lack of quality depth? Possible that our key guys are playing more downs because we don't have the depth to rotate?
2) Injuries from starting low quality players? I think if you look at the Alex Smith injury for example you can blame it almost directly on whichever third string RB it was who missed that block.
3) Players down on the franchise, giving up just don't care. If you really don't give a crap about the team, isn't it easier to go on the IR and collect your paycheck? Guys on good teams are more willing to battle through injury.
4) Relying on too many old players or players with injury histories?
5) Too much contact or not enough contact at practice?

Just some thoughts off the top of my head, but these things seem more likely to me than the trainers not having them stretch properly or something.

Hence my comment about have an outside agency review the training staff/program.

The training staff are relevant to ONE of the FIVE issues I suggested. But yeah, hiring and outside agency to review the training staff would be exactly the kind of move that gets fans in DC stoked in the off season. It could be this year's "Hey we hired Brian Lafemina to fix the terrible FedEx field experience!"

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:In case anyone missed any of his other four posts on this page that say exactly the same thing ...

Lmmfao

Is Allen even the "GM"?