No Luck... so... Now What?

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:23 am

the draft position is not as important as keeping ALL of our draft picks & continuing to put things back together here

some here have short term ideas
we need to keep adding young players that make the other players around them better & give us a consistently competitive team

we have seen a number of players get opportunities to play and show that they can play or provide depth - this is all good

we will resolve the QB position but we do not need to give up draft picks to get a 'better' QB

we just need a QB that can do a good job - we also need to add the other players around him that will make the offense better

It will not be hard to find a QB and get him ready to play + it certainly will not be hard to find one that is better than Grossman

I'd like to be drafting in the top 5 as much as anyone else .... however

it is MUCH MORE important to keep doing what we've been doing
these guys have made mistakes over the past 2 years but we are showing that we are not far off

this guys are a lot more aware of who will help the franchise than the guys that brought in Heath Shuler etc. etc. etc. etc.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:35 am

I'd be happy with a QB who isn't one of the "top prospects" but fits in the Shanahan's system. I'd hate to have another Heath Shuler on this team.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:00 pm

This FO has made mistakes and especially with the QBs here ....

This FO has also done a really good job with the franchise - adding players, remaking this franchise from the disaster of 2008/9

please don't compare this FO and what they might do with the QB position to the people that were here before them

THIS FO WILL HAVE THIS FRANCHISE IN THE PLAYOFF CHASE IN 2012

we will have a QB here (at least 1, possibly 2) that can manage the offense better than Grossman - after all, how hard can that be :lol:

we also will have a number of players here from this season that had the opportunity to show that they can not only play but also provide quality depth

I'm encouraged by a lot of what we have seen this season and most of the credit goes to Mike & Bruce

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:47 pm

The Browns winning REALLY screwed us. Depending on how the last two weeks go, we could very well find ourselves in the position of having to trade up for a qb. Whereas last year's draft was deep at qb, outside of the top 4 there isn't much this year.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 12:53 pm

Watch out for the Dolphins trying to jump ahead as well. They need a QB.

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:00 pm

The Hogster wrote:Watch out for the Dolphins trying to jump ahead as well. They need a QB.

That's what I'm thinking. They play the Jets and Pats to end the season and could easily jump us in the draft. So we could be potentially looking at a situation where the Colts (or a team like the Jags), Browns, and Dolphins all take a qb ahead of us. Add in the Seahawks, who could make a move to trade up, and we could very well be forced into trading up.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:05 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Watch out for the Dolphins trying to jump ahead as well. They need a QB.

That's what I'm thinking. They play the Jets and Pats to end the season and could easily jump us in the draft. So we could be potentially looking at a situation where the Colts (or a team like the Jags), Browns, and Dolphins all take a qb ahead of us. Add in the Seahawks, who could make a move to trade up, and we could very well be forced into trading up.

In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 1:59 pm

Totally forgot about the Browns. I'd say they are another team in desperate need of a QB. Could be Indy, Jags, then Browns taking QBs before we get our shot.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:09 pm

Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

StorminMormon86 · Post by **StorminMormon86** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:17 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

Why even keep Rex at all if we've got Leinhart? Good riddance!

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:22 pm

StorminMormon86 wrote:Why even keep Rex at all if we've got Leinhart? Good riddance!

He knows the system and would be a good asset to the rookie. While Matt would be getting reps, Rex can still teach. I'm putting aside emotion and thinking logically.

John Beck would get the axe ASAP. I'd sign Matt for 2 years. Tell him that if he wins the #1 spot, he wins it. I'd tell Rex that, U finished the season oat #1, go get ur job if u want to keep it (keeping my fingers crossed behind my back).

I would enter the draft with the intention of getting a top-tier QB. Trading up is an option. Mortgaging the future isn't. If we the Trojan or RG3, he's SITTING for at least half the season. I'd like to see him sit an entire season.

After the 2012 season, Rex get's cut. The rookie is set loose to be out Matt.

That would be my plan.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:48 pm

This FO has done some good things and they've made some mistakes
For the most part though they have looked to the future and not been stupid

I look for them to bring in a free agent QB and try and keep Grossman

We should not trade up for a QB - we need to keep doing what we've done here the past 2 years

these guys will find a QB that they can get ready and he does NOT have to be ready to play in the first few games of next year

some fans here need to understand that we can be competitive in the NFC East
We are almost there now - the other 3 teams are not that much better than we are

keep all the draft picks and add to the players already here that have shown they are worth keeping - let the others go

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 2:56 pm

SkinsJock wrote:We should not trade up for a QB - we need to keep doing what we've done here the past 2 years

I disagree to an extent. I believe that we should make an effort but not go overboard. Bruce has shown that he isn't willing to mortgage the future but that they will make a move. If they truly believe that the guy will be here 10-12 years, it's worth giving a bit extra. But only if they truly think he's worth it.

SkinsJock · Post by **SkinsJock** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:19 pm

you could be right - a lot will depend on how much the cost is to move up

some were thinking that 2 #1 and 2 #2 would be worth considering - I do not

Luck is going first, he will command a great deal - I think Seattle or someone else is going to want to get Barkley, badly

then again if it's not too much to get Barkley or Griffin they might have to

The fact is that we have 2 QBs that just cannot be considered as starting QBs here - not even for a short time

Grossman should get some consideration here because he can help but he is NOT a starting QB -

what a mess that 1 position is here - we have to get it fixed

thankfully Mike & Bruce have a clue and I'm sure they'll have a plan

the recent disaster here at QB MUST get fixed

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:25 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:Why even keep Rex at all if we've got Leinhart? Good riddance!

He knows the system and would be a good asset to the rookie. While Matt would be getting reps, Rex can still teach. I'm putting aside emotion and thinking logically.

John Beck would get the axe ASAP. I'd sign Matt for 2 years. Tell him that if he wins the #1 spot, he wins it. I'd tell Rex that, U finished the season oat #1, go get ur job if u want to keep it (keeping my fingers crossed behind my back).

I would enter the draft with the intention of getting a top-tier QB. Trading up is an option. Mortgaging the future isn't. If we the Trojan or RG3, he's SITTING for at least half the season. I'd like to see him sit an entire season.

After the 2012 season, Rex get's cut. The rookie is set loose to be out Matt.

That would be my plan.

Good thing you aren't the GM of the Skins. He's not a free agent next year

7/29/2011: Signed a two-year, $5.5 million contract. The deal includes $3.75 million guaranteed. 2011-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:31 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

They have no choice but to draft a qb. Shanahan can't go into his third year as the HC without his qb of the future. Not to mention that the 2013 qb draft class is going to be exceptionally weak. Obviously it's down the road, but there is nobody on the radar, at the moment, in college football that has shown any signs that they are capable of being the caliber of Luck, Jones, Barkley, RGIII. You look around college football for next year and most of the big time programs, with the exception of Arkansas with Tyler Wilson, either have game managers or are going to be playing young quarterbacks.

Chris Luva Luva · Post by **Chris Luva Luva** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:42 pm

chiefhog44 wrote:Good thing you aren't the GM of the Skins. He's not a free agent next year

7/29/2011: Signed a two-year, $5.5 million contract. The deal includes $3.75 million guaranteed. 2011-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent

His wiki page said he signed a one year deal, what's your source?

chiefhog44 · Post by **chiefhog44** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:33 pm

Chris Luva Luva wrote:
chiefhog44 wrote:Good thing you aren't the GM of the Skins. He's not a free agent next year

7/29/2011: Signed a two-year, $5.5 million contract. The deal includes $3.75 million guaranteed. 2011-2012: Under Contract, 2013: Free Agent

His wiki page said he signed a one year deal, what's your source?

His contract listed on rotoworld. I also have heard Pat Kirwin talking about it on Sirius NFL

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/3138/matt-leinart

welch · Post by **welch** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:12 pm

CanesSkins26 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

They have no choice but to draft a qb. Shanahan can't go into his third year as the HC without his qb of the future. Not to mention that the 2013 qb draft class is going to be exceptionally weak. Obviously it's down the road, but there is nobody on the radar, at the moment, in college football that has shown any signs that they are capable of being the caliber of Luck, Jones, Barkley, RGIII. You look around college football for next year and most of the big time programs, with the exception of Arkansas with Tyler Wilson, either have game managers or are going to be playing young quarterbacks.

The Redskins can choose not to draft a QB is no QB is available that is worth the pick. Roll back to the last time the Skins were in something like this pickle. The Colts had dumped their franchise QB, a guy named Jeff George (as best I remember), and Mel Kiper howled when the Colts skipped the only two big time QBs to draft Marshall Faulk. First two QBs were Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler.

If the best available is not as good as Grossman, then maybe you don't draft a QB. In '83, the Redskins skipped Boomer Esiason, who was pretty good, and drafted a small CB named Darrell Green. Boomer would have been a sound choice, but maybe Green was better?

CanesSkins26 · Post by **CanesSkins26** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:15 pm

welch wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

They have no choice but to draft a qb. Shanahan can't go into his third year as the HC without his qb of the future. Not to mention that the 2013 qb draft class is going to be exceptionally weak. Obviously it's down the road, but there is nobody on the radar, at the moment, in college football that has shown any signs that they are capable of being the caliber of Luck, Jones, Barkley, RGIII. You look around college football for next year and most of the big time programs, with the exception of Arkansas with Tyler Wilson, either have game managers or are going to be playing young quarterbacks.

The Redskins can choose not to draft a QB is no QB is available that is worth the pick. Roll back to the last time the Skins were in something like this pickle. The Colts had dumped their franchise QB, a guy named Jeff George (as best I remember), and Mel Kiper howled when the Colts skipped the only two big time QBs to draft Marshall Faulk. First two QBs were Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler.

If the best available is not as good as Grossman, then maybe you don't draft a QB. In '83, the Redskins skipped Boomer Esiason, who was pretty good, and drafted a small CB named Darrell Green. Boomer would have been a sound choice, but maybe Green was better?

And you suggest getting a quarterback from where, exactly, if we don't draft one? A franchise qb isn't going to magically appear out of thin air.

GoSkins · Post by **GoSkins** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:54 pm

welch wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
Countertrey wrote:In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

IMO, we get Matt Leinart in free agency. He's the contingency. Sign him for a year, he knows the system, tell him he can play if he wins it in camp.

If we get a rookie, both Matt and Rex teach him. If we don't, we get a top flight WR or whomever they deem best.

They have no choice but to draft a qb. Shanahan can't go into his third year as the HC without his qb of the future. Not to mention that the 2013 qb draft class is going to be exceptionally weak. Obviously it's down the road, but there is nobody on the radar, at the moment, in college football that has shown any signs that they are capable of being the caliber of Luck, Jones, Barkley, RGIII. You look around college football for next year and most of the big time programs, with the exception of Arkansas with Tyler Wilson, either have game managers or are going to be playing young quarterbacks.

The Redskins can choose not to draft a QB is no QB is available that is worth the pick. Roll back to the last time the Skins were in something like this pickle. The Colts had dumped their franchise QB, a guy named Jeff George (as best I remember), and Mel Kiper howled when the Colts skipped the only two big time QBs to draft Marshall Faulk. First two QBs were Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler.

If the best available is not as good as Grossman, then maybe you don't draft a QB. In '83, the Redskins skipped Boomer Esiason, who was pretty good, and drafted a small CB named Darrell Green. Boomer would have been a sound choice, but maybe Green was better?

I feel reasonably comfortable in saying Luck is already better than Grossman and Barkley and Griffin will be better than Rex.

The Hogster · Post by **The Hogster** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 10:01 pm

Countertrey wrote:
CanesSkins26 wrote:
The Hogster wrote:Watch out for the Dolphins trying to jump ahead as well. They need a QB.

That's what I'm thinking. They play the Jets and Pats to end the season and could easily jump us in the draft. So we could be potentially looking at a situation where the Colts (or a team like the Jags), Browns, and Dolphins all take a qb ahead of us. Add in the Seahawks, who could make a move to trade up, and we could very well be forced into trading up.

In your scenario, if our FO doesn't go into the draft with a contingency already in place... it would be too late. The competence they demonstrated in last years draft keeps me optimistic that they will be ready.

+1

frankcal20 · Post by **frankcal20** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:41 am

I wouldn't bank on the Skins drafting a guy in the 1st round. I think that they're going to hold true to their draft board. Heard on 106.7 today that Shanny and Co didn't like Gabbert at all. That's why they moved out of the pick. That very well could happen again. We can do a whole lot this year in the draft again and may get stuck with a VET at QB for one more year. Don't be shocked if it happens.

Kilmer72 · Post by **Kilmer72** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:50 am

What Vet? My heart says no but my head says you are probably right.

Red_One43 · Post by **Red_One43** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:59 am

frankcal20 wrote:I wouldn't bank on the Skins drafting a guy in the 1st round. I think that they're going to hold true to their draft board. Heard on 106.7 today that Shanny and Co didn't like Gabbert at all. That's why they moved out of the pick. That very well could happen again. We can do a whole lot this year in the draft again and may get stuck with a VET at QB for one more year. Don't be shocked if it happens.

I think that you are spot on. If Shanny's guy isn't there in the first round, then he isn't drafting who is there. He will be more than happy to trade down and pick up several picks while falling back to plan B, C or D to get his QB.

I think that one thing that might be a sure thing is we will have at least one QB, new to the roster, who has more upside than Grossman or Beck. Not talking about a vet journeyman either.

You have Bradford who seems to have fallen out of favor in St. Louis. Spags might get fired and he might want to dradft his own QB for his offense. Shanny is believed to have coveted him, doubt that that has changed.

You have Mallett currently 3rd on Pats depth chart. With Brady's retirement no where in sight, Belichick might be willing to part with a 3rd round investment who may not see the field for years. Belicheck and Shanny are friends.

I believe that Shanny has several plans to get a QB that he wants that are an upgrade to Rex and Beck. Some of these plans were drawn up before Grossman was signed last off season.