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Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 8:55 am
by wamcma
I wonder sometime if some of you all remember how completely overwhelmed and out of place Patrick has looked in most of the games he played.
In this year's exhibition games he had happy feet and could not make decisions or throws, and yes I remember the Portis catch and when McCants was going high!!
Unless the Redskins develop a stronger pass protection, under Gibbs you will not see Patrick Ramsey play. Even though I have the same visions of him out there throwing rockets, until he matures in his decision making processes, it will not happen. By the way the last time I remember seeing PATRICK, he through a pass into TRIPLE coverage.
One other comment. I dont see Brunell throwing ruptured duck passes. I see them bouncing off of our receivers hands and chests, even though his accuracy every other time sucks a lot.
Bottom line, I think Patrick would mauled if he were playing. Defenses would gang up on him as they have in the past. It is too bad.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:06 am
by JPFair
i never presented this statement ("if gibbs seemingly hates ramsey so much...") as a "fact". hence the word "seemingly". apparently i have crafted my statement much more carefully than you have bothered to read it.
I'm sorry, forgive me for thinking what you put in your post was fact. Regardless of what you say, to even hint that Gibbs "seemingly hates Ramsey" is absolutely WRONG!! At no time has Gibbs ever said or indicated anything to give ANYONE that impression. In fact, he has even said that he would not have come back to coach the Redskins if he thought Ramsey didn't have a bright future with the Redskins. He's spoken publicly and privately about his admiration for Ramsey and Ramseys future. To somehow infer that Ramsey not playing is in some way indicative of a personal hatred towards Ramsey is, in my mind, ridiculous. To say that I haven't read your post carefully is again wrong. I can only read what you post. And, you posted the following "Gibbs seemingly hates Ramsey". Instead of not carefully reading it, I think I read it TOO carefully.
as for gibbs "seemingly hating" ramsey, that is my cry of frustration about the mystery of why ramsey is still on the bench, one that is nearly universally echoed by the posters on these message-boards.
I doubt very much that ANY of the posters on this site or any other medium have even the slightest inclination towards agreeing with your Gibbs hating Ramsey comment. Gibbs is a master at situations like this, and whether you agree with him going with Brunell or not, to say that he "seemingly hates Ramsey" is wrong. I have not heard ANYONE that would agree with your assesment. Even the most ardent of Ramsey supporters and Brunell bashers can not say that Gibbs "hates" Ramsey. A more appropriate "cry of frustration" would be to explain why you think Ramsey should be in there instead of Brunell instead of suggesting in somewhat that Gibbs has a personal dislike for Ramsey.
clearly it is not meant to suggest that gibbs has a personal grudge against ramsey.
Again, forgive me for thinking that what you write in your post is what it is. In the future, I'll try and crack your code before reading too much into it.
but it seems clear that gibbs must not think much of him as a QB,
Again, incorrect. As I said, Gibbs has said publicly and privately that Ramsey is a good QB with a bright future for the Redskins. NEVER has he indicated in any way at all that he does not think much of him as a QB. What you're suggesting is only something that members of the Redskins can ascertain, and not something that we as fans can conclude. We can certainly agree or disagree with what Joe Gibbs does, but to conclude something like what you're suggesting is just plain wrong. Gibbs will play Ramsey when he's ready to play him, simple as that.
if he is still sitting on the bench while The Worst QB on Earth
That's a mighty strong statement to make about one of the top 10 rated passers of all time. Brunell might be struggling right now, but to say he's the "worst QB on Earth"? COME ON!!!!
in conclusion, don't insult someone unless you yourself are "wise" enough to know what they actually said.
Perhaps you should practice what you preach! To say that Joe Gibbs hates Ramsey is an insult to Joe Gibbs. And, as for insulting you for not being "wise" enough to know what you actually said, again, forgive me for reading your post in the way it was posted. Perhaps it is you that needs to re-word your comments. "seemingly hates Ramsey" is just what it says. There's no mystery language in there at all, it is exactly what you said. So, contrary to your assertion, I am "wise" enough to read what you actually said, unless of course you post one thing but actually mean another.
None of this is meant to be disrespectful to you, it is merely a disagreement with your comment about Gibbs "seemingly" hating Patrick Ramsey, when nothing could be further from the truth.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:03 am
by redskincity
Portis TD was a trick play, why??
Why couldn't Brunell make that throw?
Why dont someone breakdown Brunells game tapes from Jacksonville and incorporate his high percentage plays here?
Why aren't our receivers running slants??
Why is our smallest receiver going across the middle?
Why dont we stretch the field with Coles??
Why are we just now doing zone blocking?
Why is Brunell still in as QB?
Why dont we bring Patrick Ramsey in as a TE and do trick plays with him??
Why???
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:04 am
by cvillehog
JPFair,
Ease up a little, ok? He's just expressing his frustration as a fan and following the logical conclusion that if Brunell sucks, but Gibbs says he is a better QB than Ramsey, what does that say about Ramsey?
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:28 am
by JPFair
First, when did Gibbs say that Brunell is a "better" QB than Ramsey? Again, people are reading too much into it. He has Brunell in there for a lot of other reasons, not because Ramsey is "better" or not. Brunell is a veteran and Gibbs likes veterans.
but Gibbs says he is a better QB than Ramsey, what does that say about Ramsey?
I don't know what it does say, but I know what it doesn't say. It doesn't say that Gibbs hates Ramsey, and isn't that what was insinuated?
We as fans can infer whatever we want to infer, but to somehow infer that Gibbs hates Ramsey? Frustration or not, that's the wrong conclusion to come to. Everyone is frustrated at the offense, but do we honestly think that Gibbs HATES Ramsey? Joe Gibbs is way to classy for that type of accusation to be made against him. As Joe Gibbs said, when he made a decision to put Brunell in as the starter, he didn't say Brunell is my starter unless he struggles. He said that when he made a commitment to use Brunell as his starter, he made a commitment to have Brunell as the starter. He'll sink or swim with Brunell. If we as fans don't like it, no one is forcing us to like it. And that commitment requires faith in his QB. Brunell may be having a tough year, but he does not have to ask himself does the coach have faith in him or not, which can't be said about many fans. I for one have faith!!
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:49 am
by redskincity
I have faith that if we want to make a push, we must bench Brunnell.
It would be nice that Brunnel would get his game toghther, but its seems to get worst by the week.
It could be play calling. Why arent our receivers spread?? Why dont we throw down field to
ey.
I think Brunnel is scared to lose his job, so he want take any chances that he use to in Jacksonville.
Who knows. Joe dont know or it all would be clicking by now.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:52 am
by cvillehog
hyperbole
\Hy*per"bo*le\, n. [L., fr. Gr?, prop., an overshooting, excess, fr. Gr. ? to throw over or beyond; "ype`r over + ? to throw. See Hyper-, Parable, and cf. Hyperbola.] (Rhet.) A figure of speech in which the expression is an evident exaggeration of the meaning intended to be conveyed, or by which things are represented as much greater or less, better or worse, than they really are; a statement exaggerated fancifully, through excitement, or for effect.
Our common forms of compliment are almost all of them extravagant hyperboles. --Blair.
Somebody has said of the boldest figure in rhetoric, the hyperbole, that it lies without deceiving. --Macaulay.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:23 am
by JPFair
hate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht)
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
v. tr.
To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
v. intr.
To feel hatred.
n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:29 am
by redskincity
^^^^^^^^You guys are wild.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:37 am
by cvillehog
JPFair wrote:hate ( P ) Pronunciation Key (ht)
v. hat·ed, hat·ing, hates
v. tr.
To feel hostility or animosity toward.
To detest.
To feel dislike or distaste for: hates washing dishes.
v. intr.
To feel hatred.
n.
Intense animosity or dislike; hatred.
Right, now put the two definitions together. It's not that hard.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 11:54 am
by JPFair
This is a message board, it's not a forum for deciphering hidden meanings. When someone says something, we should accept it at face value without having to question whether its hyperpole or out of frustration or anything else. If you say that you like Patrick Ramsey, should I assume that it's hyperbole and that you really don't mean it? Nowhere in this message board, nor in DCD's original post does it say that the post(s) are or should be considered hyperbole.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:03 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
Why couldn't Brunell make that throw?
Refer to previous posts...[/quote]
Why aren't our receivers running slants??
Lets not get too advanced on Brunell. He's having trouble with the hook routes.
Why is our smallest receiver going across the middle?
Thats Gibbs right there. All those times when Gibbs said that he's going to fix the offense...(scared to say its just Brunell). He's having our WR's run shorter routes.
Why dont we stretch the field with Coles??
See above. Also Brunell has thrown a few INT's because he underthrew his WR.
Why is Brunell still in as QB?
Maybe he and Gibbs have a special bond or something. Whatever it is, its pissing me off.
Why dont we bring Patrick Ramsey in as a TE and do trick plays with him??
I was thinking more along the lines of making Tupa our RB and Portis our QB.
[/quote]
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:03 pm
by cvillehog
A figure of speech in which the expression is an evident exaggeration of the meaning intended to be conveyed, or by which things are represented as much greater or less, better or worse, than they really are; a statement exaggerated fancifully, through excitement, or for effect.
You mean to tell me you really honestly thought that anyone calling themselves a Redskins fan truly believes that Gibbs literally "hates" Ramsey?
From what I've seen of you on this forum, you are clearly an intelligent person, so I am certain you knew it was an exageration. I just think it offended you, and that is fine, but to insinuate that his post was somehow cryptic and needed to be deciphered, is hyperbole in it's own right.
I should point out that I actually know the poster in real life, and so perhaps I read his posts with his sense of humor as I know him as a frame of reference. I can assure you that he is a die-hard skins fan, and not some fair weather whiner.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:29 pm
by JPFair
You mean to tell me you really honestly thought that anyone calling themselves a Redskins fan truly believes that Gibbs literally "hates" Ramsey?
Well, as DCD said, he carefully thought it out before he made the post. His post said that Gibbs "seemingly hates Patrick Ramsey". What am I supposed to think, that he doesn't actually mean it? This is a message board and we can only read the words on the screen, and in this case those words insinuated that Joe Gibbs "seemingly hates" Patrick Ramsey. You're right when you say that any Redskins fan should not assume this. So, why would a Redskins fan post something like that. A person that questions the decision to leave Brunell in there instead of Ramsey can do so with all the emotion and intensity he/she has without having to use such language as "seemingly hates Ramsey". Hyperbole or not, it did not come across as an exaggeration. He carefully thought it out, by his own admission, and made the post.
but to insinuate that his post was somehow cryptic and needed to be deciphered, is hyperbole in it's own right.
I was insinuating that his post was NOT cryptic, but if it was to be hyperbole, perhaps it should have been. As I said, because this is a message board, I can only read what is on the screen, not the emotion or the mindset behind the posting. DCC should also be aware of this and as I suggested re-word his post accordingly. Hperbole, exaggeration or not, it is downright WRONG to insinuate such a thing whether or not the person beleives it or not. I did not take offense to it in any way, other than to say that Gibbs does NOT hate Ramsey as I'm sure you would agree with.
should point out that I actually know the poster in real life, and so perhaps I read his posts with his sense of humor as I know him as a frame of reference
Most of the people on this board, myself included, do not know the poster and are again left to the words on the screen to figure out what the poster meant, without having to somehow go inside the mind of the poster to figure out whether he truly means it or not. If a complete stranger says something to me, then I take it for what it's worth.
I can assure you that he is a die-hard skins fan, and not some fair weather whiner.
I never said otherwise.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:38 pm
by cvillehog
JPFair,
No one else responded so negatively as you did. It seems everyone else "got it" where you got very defensive, leading me to presume you were offended.
Far, far worse things have been said on this board, and I don't recall you jumping all over those posters.
I say let it go. You misunderstood him. Not a big deal, so let's move on.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:43 pm
by JPFair
I misunderstood nothing. I merely read what was posted and had an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:45 pm
by cvillehog
JPFair wrote:I misunderstood nothing. I merely read what was posted and had an opinion. Nothing more, nothing less.
Fine, you win. Can we drop it already?
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:48 pm
by JPFair
Can we drop it already?
uh, o.k.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:50 pm
by cvillehog
JPFair wrote:Can we drop it already?
uh, o.k.
Last word!
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 12:53 pm
by JPFair
Last word!
On what?
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 1:14 pm
by NC43Hog
Wayyyyyyyyy offffffff threadddddd!
Can we try to bring it back around please!
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 2:55 pm
by die cowboys die
JPFair wrote: At no time has Gibbs ever said or indicated anything to give ANYONE that impression. In fact, he has even said that he would not have come back to coach the Redskins if he thought Ramsey didn't have a bright future with the Redskins. He's spoken publicly and privately about his admiration for Ramsey and Ramseys future. To somehow infer that Ramsey not playing is in some way indicative of a personal hatred towards Ramsey is, in my mind, ridiculous. **(emphasis added by DCD)***
said, said, spoken, blah blah blah. words don't mean anything, and it's pretty naive to believe that they do. gibbs is very diplomatic, he is not going to speak ill of ramsey, even if he dislikes/hates his
playing. knowing that, we have to guess from what we can observe, and put the facts together.
nothing has illustrated this concept better than the recent election. we have flushed our country down the toilet because 51% of americans were brainwashed by "president" bush's constant speeches about how everything was going great, while reality clearly contradicted his words. now i don't mean to insult gibbs by comparing him to bush- they have very different reasons for using this kind of speech, clearly. but the bottom line is that what gibbs says about ramsey means nothing.
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:09 pm
by skinmadfan
AS ANYONE NOTICE GIBBS ON 3RD AND LONG TWICE RAN THE BALL IF THAT DOESNT SAY NO FAITH IN BRUNELL I DONT NO WHAT DOES
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:10 pm
by JPFair
quote]he is not going to speak ill of ramsey, even if he dislikes/hates his playing. knowing that, we have to guess from what we can observe, and put the facts together.
How you're able to deduce that Gibbs hates/dislikes Ramsey is beyond me. In my opinion, you're assuming way too much.
The fact that Sean Taylor didn't start the first game, does that mean that Joe Gibbs hates him? The fact that Darnerian McCants isn't even active on game day, does that mean that Gibbs hates him?
Posted: Mon Nov 08, 2004 3:16 pm
by skinmadfan
SO YOUR SAYING JOES STYLE IS TO RUN ON 3RD AND 34 AND ON 3RD 9 ,SORRY JP ITS CALL YOUR SCARED YOUR QB WILL LOSE THE GAME WHICH BRUNELL HAS PROVEN TIME IN AND TIME OUT