DUI Punnishment

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:05 am

Again, it's not a case of whether DUI is as serious as it is (and it IS very serious). It's the fact that Sean Taylor broke a team rule. That team rule is "Don't embarrass the Redskins or yourself".

The sole person to determine if it was a violation of a team rule is Joe Gibbs. As of now, and until his court appearance, it's a matter that Joe Gibbs will handle. He said yesterday that it "appears serious". There could be things about it that we don't even know yet. My first question to him would be if he was released from the Fairfax County Jail at 10:00 am, why didn't he show up for practice at 12noon? When he didn't show up for practice, it was deemed an "unexcused absence", and thus, a disciplinary act right there. So, as a football team, the Redskins will let Sean Taylor sort out his own personal life, but as it relates to the Redskins and its policies, Joe Gibbs will handle it. Again, it's not about the DUI, it's about did he break a team rule. If Joe Gibbs determines that Sean Taylor broke a teama rule, then disciplinary action should be taken. Whatever Joe Gibbs decides, I'm comfortable with.

As for Sean Taylor, the most severe punishment he will recieve will be the knowledge that he let his teammates and his coaching staff down. That is FAR more serious than any fine that will be levied to him.

JansenFan · Post by **JansenFan** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:26 am

Also, everyone is overlooking something.....Because of this, ST missed the Thursday practice where the game plan is implemented and as the coaching staff has said all along, if you don't practice you don't play. I think the team has been fairly consiostent on this and during another week, ST missed a practice for being sick and did not get the start, so it's a (1) his second offense and (2) not an acceptable excuse for missing practice.

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:35 am

Again, it's not a case of whether DUI is as serious as it is (and it IS very serious). It's the fact that Sean Taylor broke a team rule. That team rule is "Don't embarrass the Redskins or yourself".

So, if he's found not guilty or charges aren't filed, being falsely arrested embarrasses the team??? Interesting. I'm sure most people here would have a problem with being suspended from work if they were arrested and not yet convicted.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 9:58 am

So, if he's found not guilty or charges aren't filed, being falsely arrested embarrasses the team??? Interesting. I'm sure most people here would have a problem with being suspended from work if they were arrested and not yet convicte

If he's found guilty, that does not relieve him of his obligation to be at the team practice. He was released from jail at 10:00 am. He could have shown up at practice. Read what I said, it's NOT about whether or not he was convicted, he broke a team rule.

Anyway, ultimately the decision on whether he embarrased the team is up to the Head Coach, Joe Gibbs. Joe Gibbs has proven to be fair and compassionate, yet stern. I have total faith in Joe's system. If that means that Sean Taylor doesn't play, then I' all for it. Obviously, we'd all like Sean Taylor to play, but if he breaks a team rule as well as misses practice on "game plan" day, then not only is it a fact of him not playing, but he SHOULDN'T play.

Countertrey · Post by **Countertrey** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:22 am

Boy, looks like a few of you are in for miserable times ahead (SkinsCanes, doroshjt, redskincity). Quick, jump off the bandwagon before it picks up too much speed.

Gibbs is what he is.
He is painfully consistent
He expects and demands compliance with his rules
He will not cut slack for a star... he will hammer any who mess up
He will use this to forcefully emboss a lesson which ST will not forget
If it costs a game or two during a throw-away season, he will pay that, knowing that he will have a much better player and team in the long run.

If you do not like these facts, you'd might as well get your purple and white crow paraphenalia right now, cause you will be miserable as 'skins fans. This is Gibbs. He is what he is... which happens to be a HOF 3 time Super Bowl winning coach

SkinzCanes · Post by **SkinzCanes** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 10:56 am

He is painfully consistent
He expects and demands compliance with his rules
He will not cut slack for a star... he will hammer any who mess up
He will use this to forcefully emboss a lesson which ST will not forget

You seem to be forgetting Riggins and Manley...

And do you seriously think that benching ST for one game is going to teach him a lesson??? I think it would be more effective to fine Taylor and make him play without getting paid than just benching him and still paying him his game check. Paying someone not to play ism't going to teach too many lessons.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:41 am

SkinzCanes wrote:You seem to be forgetting Riggins and Manley...

No, YOU seem to be forgetting Riggins and Manley.

One of the most painful moments in Joe' career were experienced when Manley let his team down again after he was given a chance by Joe.

Joe has seen way too many stories of players whose careers have been destroyed by substance abuse and alcohol. He knows how to deal with it. If this guy ST is as smart as he is gifted physically, he will see the light and learn a good lesson. If he does not learn, he might as well throw away all of his physical talent because it will not last and it will be wasted.

Several of you have it right on and you know your coach. NOBODY is above the TEAM.

Discipline is important to the individual and it is essential to the team. I hope he learns his lesson.

No matter how many posters complain, he will not play. He does not deserve to play, AND, chances are, somebody will step up in his place in the GW system.

Everybody is necessary, Nobody is indispensable in a Gibbs team.

JPFair · Post by **JPFair** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 11:56 am

You seem to be forgetting Riggins and Manley...

And what happened to Manley? He bounced around the NFL for a few seasons before ending up in jail.

air_hog · Post by **air_hog** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:03 pm

SkinsLaVar wrote:Stay alive. Don't drink and drive. -drinking

cause you might spill

Irn-Bru · Post by **Irn-Bru** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 12:48 pm

doroshjt wrote:I think its stupid that off the field behavior can influence your playing time. I hate the self righteousness of some people. If you don't play cause you missed practice, that is team policy and should be inforced, but not playing cause of something you did outside the realm of the sports world seems intrusive into their lives.

When you work for an organization like the Redskins, they as an employer have every right to contractually obligate you to conform certain things about your off-hours life if they relate to your working situation. For instance, most teams don't let their players do things like play sports outside of team workouts / games (think Ryan Leaf), they might not let you do major housework with tools--or else you might unnecessarily injure yourself (Lavar seemed to have something like this going on in the episode of "While You Were Out"), or they could forbid you from riding a motorcycle because of how risky it is (Jason Williams for the Chicago Bulls. . .). If you don't like those rules, don't sign the contract--but since the players obviously find the millions worth those kinds of sacrifices, they can't forcefully do more than just complain about team policy--which just makes them look incompetent and inconsistent.

We all know you shouldn't be out late partying it up during the season, easy for us to say as we get drunk and watch on tv all week. But lots of players did that throughout their careers, lot at Riggins, he said he had his best practices coming off hangovers.

This is irrelevant if it's team policy not to do this. Guys like Riggins may have gotten away with his drinking, but the team rule that Joe Gibbs clearly laid out was "Don't do anything to embarass the Redskins, or yourself." You're not living in reality if you don't think this is an embarassing thing for our team to have to deal with. Therefore, the Redskins taking actions against Taylor's behavior is justified.

If ST got arrested and still came in for practice, do you think he'd still be benched? I would say yes, and the entire team would be punished for the actions of one. Why, cause someone thinks they can teach him a lesson. If jail time, fines, and a loss of a drivers license doens't affect you. Missing a game won't do much eiher.

You say that the entire team is being punnished, but that is a very short-sighted statement. Yes, Sean Taylor will not play on Sunday and they've made a deal out of the arrest--this will psychologically weigh on the team. But think about the long term effects of this all. The entire team would suffer far greater damage if Sean Taylor did play. They would see that drinking, getting arrested, and hurting the reputation of the Redskins had no consequences. Not being punnished, the players with integrity on the team would constantly deal with others who were irresponsible enough to even get arrested sometimes. Jamal Lewis is going to jail--and he's not missing any games due to jail time. But how good for a team long term can that really be? It takes a full unit functioning together to win--and this is what Joe Gibbs is protecting by letting Sean Taylor know early that you can't do this stuff and be considered a core Redskin.

1niksder · Post by **1niksder** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:40 pm

doroshjt wrote:If ST got arrested and still came in for practice, do you think he'd still be benched? I would say yes, and the entire team would be punished for the actions of one. Why, cause someone thinks they can teach him a lesson. If jail time, fines, and a loss of a drivers license doens't affect you. Missing a game won't do much eiher.

If Taylor had made it to practice he probally would be active but not starting... I don't think this is about punishing anyone this is and should somethink a lot of players will learn from. Joe knows Taylor wasn't the only one that got behind the wheel of a car that MORNING, he knows Taylor didn't sneak off to get behind said wheel, Joe also knows that if NOTHING is done these action will not stop, by deactivating Taylor this week he told every Redskin Player
1. You don't Drink and drive (it's not a smart thing to do)
2. You don't let your teammate drink and drive ( he could have hit a tree and would have missed more than the Packers game)
3. You have no reason to be out that time of morning when you have practice in a few hours.
4. You don't do ANYTHING to embarass the Redskins, or yourself.

And was Taylor the ONLY one wrong in this.
There's a party at Rod Gardner's house
Players are there late into the night with a big game coming up.
Said players let a 21 year old kid get into a operational vehicle and drive off with more knowledge of his condition than anyone else he'll encounter on the road.

I hope a lot of players learn from this even if they only learn "that could be me in Taylor's shoes" or "I should have offered him a ride since I wasn't drinking"
Or in Rod's case "I should have let him passout on the couch"

welch · Post by **welch** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:13 pm

I think 1Niksider has hit it squarely. Especially

3. You have no reason to be out that time of morning when you have practice in a few hours.

Consider Super Bowl 18. That was nearly the best Redskins team ever. They did not take the game seriously, they partied, and were out-played. Gibbs remembers.

(Beyond that, I would be repeating what several have already said...)

Texas Hog · Post by **Texas Hog** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:30 pm

FanfromAnnapolis wrote:
You say that the entire team is being punnished, but that is a very short-sighted statement. Yes, Sean Taylor will not play on Sunday and they've made a deal out of the arrest--this will psychologically weigh on the team. But think about the long term effects of this all. The entire team would suffer far greater damage if Sean Taylor did play. They would see that drinking, getting arrested, and hurting the reputation of the Redskins had no consequences. Not being punnished, the players with integrity on the team would constantly deal with others who were irresponsible enough to even get arrested sometimes. Jamal Lewis is going to jail--and he's not missing any games due to jail time. But how good for a team long term can that really be? It takes a full unit functioning together to win--and this is what Joe Gibbs is protecting by letting Sean Taylor know early that you can't do this stuff and be considered a core Redskin.

This is right on point, and I agree completely. I'm pretty sure Lewis received a 3 game suspension - unless it was appealed and reversed without my knowledge. What I couldn't figure out was why he didn't have to start serving his suspension immediately...which would have been our game? Anyone?

Ah....you said due to jail time....gotcha.

Redskin in Canada · Post by **Redskin in Canada** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:25 pm

welch wrote:Consider Super Bowl 18. That was nearly the best Redskins team ever. They did not take the game seriously, they partied, and were out-played. Gibbs remembers

So do I! I am still angry at them for that. I am particularly angry at Joe Theisman. He did not want to miss a single opportunity under the lights and ended up arriving at the locker room already exhausted -before- the beginning of the game.

That was probably the best Redskin team ever, what a waste!

njskinsfan · Post by **njskinsfan** » Sat Oct 30, 2004 6:26 pm

I guess that I will have to dress for the game?

6-1 240lbs and a spry 36 yrs of age but I can bring it with my 14.2-40 speed. HAH

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DUI Punnishment

Good lesson

SB 18