The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

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So... I was at the game. I hate it came against us, but it was impressive to see history made. That said, we were awful. Couldn’t block for anything. Couldn’t cover. Couldn’t tackle. Doctson is a BUM!!! On the other side, penalties were a joke! Every time we seemed to get revved up offensively or defensively, they would throw a flag. Some deserved (Nicholson after a BIG sack). Some not. It was obvious the league wanted Drew to break the record there. They need to just put flags on the pretty boy qbs and let that be the way to tackle them. On a side note, it was an extremely hospitable environment for an away fan. Everyone was super nice. It was my son’s first pro game to attend and we had a blast, despite the loss. Extremely friendly place!! Friendlier to visitors than Fed Ex is lol.

DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.

I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.

I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.

If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:Agreed, I think any attempt of having a chance for a decent coach here, starts with a GM that been given full power.

I'm afraid at some point this season I'm going to start actively cheering for Kirk Cousins and the Vikings to get to the Super Bowl and win it all. I kind of think there is no way Bruce Allen could survive that.

If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.

I totally endorse what B&GF posted ... besides, Dan Snyder has proven that he rarely, if ever, makes good decisions regarding this franchise

Kurt Grossman is trash... Even with more weapons! The L to buffalo is worse than anything we could do this year. He is even exposing that amazing D- like he did here.

Allen has made cap magic.. Gruden on the other hand needs to hand over the headset on offence. Do that... Stay healthy... And the squad is legit

SkinsJock wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.

I totally endorse what B&GF posted ... besides, Dan Snyder has proven that he rarely, if ever, makes good decisions regarding this franchise

I agree with both of you. Completely. I'm just saying I don't think Allen could survive a Cousins/Vikings super bowl win this year. He was already exposed for completely bungling the Cousins thing to begin with. I think it would be so embarrassing to Snyder, he'd have no choice but to get rid of Allen.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If Cousins were the last QB in the history of the NFL I wouldn't root for him. He's a self-absorbed douchebag. Then again so is Bruce Allen.

I totally endorse what B&GF posted ... besides, Dan Snyder has proven that he rarely, if ever, makes good decisions regarding this franchise

I agree with both of you. Completely. I'm just saying I don't think Allen could survive a Cousins/Vikings super bowl win this year. He was already exposed for completely bungling the Cousins thing to begin with. I think it would be so embarrassing to Snyder, he'd have no choice but to get rid of Allen.

Being embarrassed doesn't seem to rank highly on Snyder's list of reasons not to do things. The only things that seem to move his needle are his own impatience and keeping up with the Joneses.

Not much of what or why makes sense when looking into Dan Snyder ...

I do agree that a big part of why Bruce Allen is here is because of his skill managing the cap which is 'money' to Dan - the problem is we have seen a number of good players here either leave and do better or not live up to expectations because of bad coaching or not being utilized properly - it really matters little to the fans that we look good on the balance sheet but it's important to that little weasel

riggofan wrote:Everybody loses games in the NFL. If you want to answer the question of whether Gruden is a good coach or not, let's see how the team responds and plays this Sunday.

Re-up.

Jay Gruden is not the problem here but he's clearly not a very good NFL HC - he's only here because nobody good wanted to come here

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden is not the problem here but he's clearly not a very good NFL HC

If he's not the problem, then how can you say he is "clearly" not a very good NFL HC?

That's like saying I know you are driving a 1978 Ford Pinto, but you are clearly not a good NASCAR driver.

I'm not arguing one way or the other btw. You might be right. He's basically been a .500 coach here over a number of years. There are weeks where I can't believe how unprepared the looks and weeks where I'm impressed that his team continues to play hard for him. Kinda think you might be right that he's the best coach willing to work here at this point. We'll see how this year plays out.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden is not the problem here but he's clearly not a very good NFL HC

If he's not the problem, then how can you say he is "clearly" not a very good NFL HC?

That's like saying I know you are driving a 1978 Ford Pinto, but you are clearly not a good NASCAR driver.

I'm not arguing one way or the other btw. You might be right. He's basically been a .500 coach here over a number of years. There are weeks where I can't believe how unprepared the looks and weeks where I'm impressed that his team continues to play hard for him. Kinda think you might be right that he's the best coach willing to work here at this point. We'll see how this year plays out.

Dan Steinberg recently posted the Skins record over time. It's ridiculously .500. 38-38-1 over the last 57 games.

my point is that the Redskins have a management problem not a coaching or player problem - Jay Gruden is the only guy we could get

we have a franchise where there is no accountability for what you do - why do the media and the NFL guys all look at this franchise as a joke? not because of the players and coaches but because of what this franchise is - it's a freaking joke!

the record is a clear indication of a franchise that does not play to the level of the talent it has - how can people keep their jobs when you're losing more games than you're winning

Lombardi could be coaching here and the record would be the same ...

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden is not the problem here but he's clearly not a very good NFL HC

If he's not the problem, then how can you say he is "clearly" not a very good NFL HC?
That's like saying I know you are driving a 1978 Ford Pinto, but you are clearly not a good NASCAR driver

Dan Steinberg recently posted the Skins record over time. It's ridiculously .500. 38-38-1 over the last 57 games.

Jay Gruden is not even close to being a .500 coach - 31-37-1 is not getting it done when you had the fabulous Kirk Cousins as QB

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden is not even close to being a .500 coach - 31-37-1 is not getting it done when you had the fabulous Kirk Cousins as QB

Umm. That's 5 wins from being a .500 coach. Its .46.

Your hyperbole is getting the best of you today! Maybe its just exasperation?

Interesting point by Boswell in this week's Q&A: Gruden is not a great coach, but he is not terrible, either. Not Spurrier, not Zorn. They were not NFL head coaches. Not Shanahan, who has an evil streak. If Snyder-Allen fire Jay Gruden, then imagine who they would pick.

welch wrote:Interesting point by Boswell in this week's Q&A: Gruden is not a great coach, but he is not terrible, either. Not Spurrier, not Zorn. They were not NFL head coaches. Not Shanahan, who has an evil streak. If Snyder-Allen fire Jay Gruden, then imagine who they would pick.

I'd agree with that evaluation.

I would argue though if Gruden is fired after this year:
1) He was given a reasonable amount of time to build and coach this team.
2) A new coach might not be thrilled with working for Snyder, but the roster is in far better shape IMO than what Gruden took over five years ago. I don't think it would be the worst team for a new coach to take over.

You're probably right though that the bigger problem is who Snyder might actually hire. He's literally tried every type of coaching hire possible.

They let Sean McVay go and kept Gruden. Best not look at his stats as HC. The front office made a hard decision to keep Gruden (his contract could have been paid off) and let McVay go. That decision making tells me the 'decision makers' are totally incompetant, any decision from at least that point foreward to present is suspect.

oj wrote:They let Sean McVay go and kept Gruden. Best not look at his stats as HC. The front office made a hard decision to keep Gruden (his contract could have been paid off) and let McVay go. That decision making tells me the 'decision makers' are totally incompetant, any decision from at least that point foreward to present is suspect.

meh. Its just apples to oranges. I think if Jay Gruden took over in LA last year with that roster, that organization and in that weak ass conference, he'd look pretty good too. And I mean no offense to McVay who was a quality coach here and has been fantastic with the Rams.

riggofan wrote:

welch wrote:Interesting point by Boswell in this week's Q&A: Gruden is not a great coach, but he is not terrible, either. Not Spurrier, not Zorn. They were not NFL head coaches. Not Shanahan, who has an evil streak. If Snyder-Allen fire Jay Gruden, then imagine who they would pick.

I'd agree with that evaluation.

I would argue though if Gruden is fired after this year:
1) He was given a reasonable amount of time to build and coach this team.
2) A new coach might not be thrilled with working for Snyder, but the roster is in far better shape IMO than what Gruden took over five years ago. I don't think it would be the worst team for a new coach to take over.

You're probably right though that the bigger problem is who Snyder might actually hire. He's literally tried every type of coaching hire possible.

Gruden took over for a 3-13 team that pissed away four first round draft picks on a QB who couldn't even play the position of NFL QB. He also took over from a head coach who was qualified and pissed off about the way he was treated by the owner and the general manager. The reality is no one else wanted the job. That bought Gruden more time than Snyder would ordinarily give a head coach. That should still buy Gruden time because no one worth a damn wants the job. Unless or until someone worth a damn wants the job and is available to take the job the coaching carousel nonsense needs to end. It wasn't Gruden's decision to not pay Cousins or to bring in Smith. It wasn't Gruden's decision to roll with a marginal receiving corps. It wasn't Gruden's fault Guice got injured. It was Gruden's fortune AP is still who we thought he was back when he was kicking our asses every time we played the Vikings.

I don't know about anyone else but I'm not excited for the next college coach or under-the-radar coordinator Snyder takes a shine to and hires. Gruden is at least keeping the games important through the end of the season which is more than can be said for a lot of former coaches in the Snyder era.

Don't get me wrong, B&G. I'm in complete agreement with what you just wrote and would prefer to see Gruden succeed (by some reasonable measure) and continue as coach. My point is just that unlike in previous iterations of the coaching carousel, I think Gruden has been given a reasonable amount of time to build this team up. He was hampered by a terrible roster and the RG3 fiasco in year one, plus the time wasted with Cousins/Allen, no doubt about that.

I'm definitely not excited about the prospect of yet another coaching change either. I don't really get why fans of this team would be. We've had how many coaches in the past two decades? You'd think people would realize its not a magic bullet for the problems here.

riggofan wrote:Don't get me wrong, B&G. I'm in complete agreement with what you just wrote and would prefer to see Gruden succeed (by some reasonable measure) and continue as coach. My point is just that unlike in previous iterations of the coaching carousel, I think Gruden has been given a reasonable amount of time to build this team up. He was hampered by a terrible roster and the RG3 fiasco in year one, plus the time wasted with Cousins/Allen, no doubt about that.

I'm definitely not excited about the prospect of yet another coaching change either. I don't really get why fans of this team would be. We've had how many coaches in the past two decades? You'd think people would realize its not a magic bullet for the problems here.

If there's a magic bullet I hope it puts me out of my misery as a Redskins fan.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:If there's a magic bullet I hope it puts me out of my misery as a Redskins fan.

There's only one cure for that, my friend.

I agree with welch in that Jay Gruden is not a bad HC - I'd prefer to keep him on as HC if we're going to continue to have Snyder & Allen in charge of things here - I'm hoping the Redskins go in a different direction and they get rid of Bruce Allen and bring in new management and let them be in charge of turning this franchise into something like the better managed franchises

there's little chance of that happening no matter what the record is so we might as well keep Jay Gruden and continue to be mediocre at best