The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

TexasCowboy wrote:It is a bad law, the receiver upon hitting the ground does not lose full possession should the ball have some movement. The James catch, Dez, Megatron, all maintain possession completing the catch the play ends
once this is established. There is 1 guy who I agree does have a legit argument for non-catch

Gronk! the player used the ground to establish the possession of the football rather than actually catching
it and maintaining possession the way he should have. That is the only time I will agree to it being a non-
catch the rest are catches

So again that would be a no to a member of the media agreeing with you...
#fakenews

3 agreed with me and they are all members of the media got to be hard to be wrong continually to a Cowboys fan on this board

4 if you actually watched the last video link I posted now sit your butt down dude

TexasCowboy wrote:4 if you actually watched the last video link I posted now sit your butt down dude

Fake news!!! Not one person said that he caught the ball (BY RULE) and was down when his knee hit!!! '

LOSER!!!!!

Ah, the fake news defense, when the media agrees with them. it's all roses and rainbows, When the media is going against them? it's fake news and they have no clue as to what they are talking about

the only thing "fake" is you and these other so called "fans" trying to argue what you have already lost

TexasCowboy wrote:Ah, the fake news defense, when the media agrees with them. it's all roses and rainbows, When the media is going against them? it's fake news and they have no clue as to what they are talking about

the only thing "fake" is you and these other so called "fans" trying to argue what you have already lost

Still waiting

Now arriving on track 1 the denial express with limited stops to liarsville, delusional all aboard

You got your proof I don't need to provide anything further at this point in time

game, set, match go away

TexasCowboy wrote:You got your proof I don't need to provide anything further at this point in time

game, set, match go away

Words of someone that doesn't have a argument...ok one more chance...give me the link to the media member that agrees he caught the pass under the currenet rule and was down when his kneee hit the groud..please provide the time on the link when they say it!

Words of someone who has not only validated his own thoughts, but now has backing of what was said even though it never needed backing, the denial is strong in this one, but in the end you got nothing but a lie to
cling to and truth that rips your lie to shreds

now go away

Well nothing but the ruling on the field and numerous media members who agree it wasn't a catch...I love how you like to talk out of both sides of your

you really cannot think for yourself and will never understand this game unless the media or some corrupt entity is pushing it down your throat to make you believe that what they say is right

not even your "Friends" in the media are claiming it wasn't a catch

Go away dude, the fact is you are wrong I have been right all along got to be tough knowing a cowboys fan is smarter than you

TexasCowboy wrote:Go away dude, the fact is you are wrong I have been right all along got to be tough knowing a cowboys fan is smarter than you

The fact that you think you're right is all I nned to know....Still waiting...

[quote="DEHog"
The fact that you think you're right is all I need to know....Still waiting...[/quote]

And if you look at the shoulder on that jersey. It is a 30 not a 38, or 33.

DEHog wrote: Well now ...it depends on what you'e doing on your knees

Oh man we all know what he get's down on at least 1 knee for. His job working at a gloryhole.
Just checked the official game score. It's still an In-Com-Plete pass. No Catch.

Saw an NFL player running with the ball this weekend. He fell down on his own. He crawled 2 yards before he was touched by a defender. Naturally, he got the 2 yards since he wasn't down BY CONTACT until a defender MADE CONTACT.

It's NFL, after all.

#sheesh

DarthMonk wrote:Saw an NFL player running with the ball this weekend. He fell down on his own. He crawled 2 yards before he was touched by a defender. Naturally, he got the 2 yards since he wasn't down BY CONTACT until a defender MADE CONTACT.

It's NFL, after all.

#sheesh

Then the refs blew it according to a "Special" poster. Cause according to "Special" ones. Once you contact the ground with anything beside your hands or feet "Supposedly you are down by contact".
Same "Special" poster thinks the ground can't cause an incompletion either. Newsflash.

And if you are down by a knee contacting the ground. Should the place kick always be no good due to that supposed rule?

rule 7 (e) explains it all

You can highlight the part of the rule 7a he keeps quoting but ignoring

You can show him the corresponding college rule which does not require contact

You can show him plays where NFL players are crawling on the ground legally with the ball while everyone in the stadium is aware of the rule and knows it’s OK

You can show him articles about the differences between the NFL and college rule regarding a dead ball

You could show him a play from every week of the current NFL season where an NFL player fell down by himself without being contacted got up and continued to run and was allowed to do so by the referees while no one in the stands or on the sidelines complained because they knew it was legal

And he would simply continue to spout the college version of the rule or the NFL version while omitting the line requiring contact.

You can even show him a high definition photograph of a player wearing a jersey number 30 and he’ll say MAYBE the 8 is a 3 when the whole point is the zero is a zero not an 8.

Meanwhile I can only assume the mods figure he’s worth keeping here because he drives “traffic” as he has violated their own rules repeatedly.

No thanks.

My first post in this thread was designed to show TC the NFL rule in action knowing it would probably only coax another idiotic post from TC. Sure enough.

Later fellas.

^^ kinda hard to take one seriously when all he keeps doing is changing the narrative while ignoring the real facts facts

especially when?? he spouted and admittedly denied rule 7(a) citing "it's not a rule in the NFL" yep, He said that then turns around and now stats that 7(a) is a pro rule, ah, and since he wants to get into the rule of dead ball from scrimmage, which cements a catch vs non-catch let's look at the whole thing shall

Item 1. Player Going to the Ground. A player is considered to be going to the ground if he does not remain upright long enough to demonstrate that he is clearly a runner. If a player goes to the ground in the act of catching a pass (with or without contact by an opponent), he must maintain control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, whether in the field of play or the end zone. If he loses control of the ball, and the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete. If he regains control prior to the ball touching the ground, the pass is complete.

Item 2. Sideline Catches. If a player goes to the ground out-of-bounds (with or without contact by an opponent) in the process of making a catch at the sideline, he must maintain complete and continuous control of the ball until after his initial contact with the ground, or the pass is incomplete.

Item 3. End Zone Catches. The requirements for a catch in the end zone are the same as the requirements for a catch in the field of play.

Note: In the field of play, if a catch of a forward pass has been completed, after which contact by a defender causes the ball to become loose before the runner is down by contact, it is a fumble, and the ball remains alive. In the end zone, the same action is a touchdown, since the receiver completed the catch beyond the goal line prior to the loss of possession, and the ball is dead when the catch is completed.

Now it gets interesting please note the following

Item 4. Ball Touches Ground. If the ball touches the ground after the player secures control of it, it is a catch, provided that the player continues to maintain control.

last but not least

ARTICLE 4. INCOMPLETE PASS

Any forward pass (legal or illegal) is incomplete and the ball is dead immediately if the pass strikes the ground or goes out of bounds. An incomplete pass is a loss of down, and the ball returns to the previous spot.

5 items that state what a "Catch" in the NFL is?

Time to read between the lines and look at the words used

* IF the ball touches the ground before he regains control, the pass is incomplete.

* he must maintain control of the ball

* when a runner is out of bounds or declares himself down by falling to the ground rule 7(e)


* when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance rule 7(a)

Oh, and did I mention the NFL admitted to rigging games?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6GJcOS1dD4

In conclusion



^^^ this was a catch



^^^ so was this

The thing I said is not the NFL rule is your MISQUOTING OF 7A.

It has become apparent that at least 1 long-time fan of the NFL who frequents this message board is not aware of the fact that NFL rule 7a mandates contact by a defender as opposed to the NCAA rule which says that once a ball carrier falls down, the ball is dead whether or not he has been touched by a defender.

Since it would be terrible for a fellow board member to walk around thinking the NFL rule is the same as the NCAA rule, I have decided to post the corresponding rules and point out the differences - differences every fan should know.

Here is NFL rule 7a:

RULE 7 Ball in Play, Dead Ball, Scrimmage
Section 1 Ball in Play
Article 1: Live Ball. After the ball has been declared ready for play, it becomes a live ball when it is legally
snapped or legally kicked (a free kick or fair catch kick). The ball remains dead if it is snapped or kicked
before it is made ready for play.
Section 2 Dead Ball
Article 1: Dead Ball Declared. An official shall declare the ball dead and the down ended:
(a) when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground. A runner
touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; or

Note the highlighted requirement of contact by a defensive player in rule 7a.

There are exceptions to the "when a runner is contacted by a defensive player" requirement. They appear in rules 7c and 7d, not in 7a:

(c) when a quarterback immediately drops to his knee (or simulates dropping to his knee) behind the line
of scrimmage; or
(d) when a runner declares himself down by sliding feet first on the ground.

An NFL player can also kneel in the endzone and the ball is dead without contact by a defensive player.

Things are different in the NCAA. Here is the corresponding rule 4.3b

Ball Declared Dead
ARTICLE 3. A live ball becomes dead and an official shall sound his whistle
or declare it dead:
a. When it goes out of bounds other than a kick that scores a field goal after
touching the uprights or crossbar; when a ball carrier is out of bounds;
or when a ball carrier is so held that his forward progress is stopped.
When in question, the ball is dead (A.R. 4-2-1-II).
b. When any part of the ball carrier’s body, except his hand or foot, touches
the ground or when the ball carrier is tackled or otherwise falls and loses
possession of the ball as he contacts the ground with any part of his
body, except his hand or foot

Note the lack of a mandate for contact by a defender.

Thus, in the NFL, by rule 7a, contact by a defensive player is required for a ball to be declared dead while this is not so in the NCAA by rule 4.3b.

Note that 4.3b has an exception too:

[Exception: The ball remains alive when
an offensive player has simulated a kick or at the snap is in position to
kick the ball held for a place kick by a teammate. The ball may be kicked,
passed or advanced by rule]

In other words, in the NCAA (and in the NFL for that matter), the holder on a placekick does not create a dead ball by receiving a snap while on one knee.

TexasCowboy wrote:

^^^ so was this

You just proved yourself wrong twice and you are on record as saying James did not score because he was down BY CONTACT before crossing the goal line.

This is clearly wrong ................... by rule 7a !!

The thing you said was 7 (a) didn't exist as an NFL rule and kept calling out the college rule which is 4.3 (b) as for my commentary which by the way has been consistently right throughout this entire drawn out conversation. Is that the Player is down when his body strikes the turf, and doesn't necessarily need to make contact with a defender in order for this to be considered so

NFL rule 7 (e) when a runner declares himself down by falling to the ground, making no effort to advance

Rule (a) which you now want to quote spells it quickly if you actually take the time to read it (which you clearly haven't)

when a runner is contacted by a defensive player and touches the ground with any part of his body
other than his hands or feet. The ball is dead the instant the runner touches the ground.

Dez clearly made contact with the defender even if inadvertently (not intentional) still makes contact with the defender

[img]https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/5Ziv5UnF1nhea791HieOtDZfLII=/400x0/filters:no_upscale()/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9887211/notd.0.gif[/img

The James catch you can file under 7 (e) even though the defender does make contact after the fact, his body at that point is still considered down once again under rule (a) let's go back to the rule and see how this can be

A runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance; or (b) when a runner is held or otherwise restrained so that his forward progress ends;

wait, let's back that up a sec

when a runner touching the ground with his hands or feet while in the grasp of an opponent may continue to
advance

I didn't see James nor Bryant using his hands nor feet to secure his position of grounding I saw legs, elbows, knees, and use of gravity to try and propel him
beyond, which fails to matter but I thought I'd throw psychics in there since we are talking about the rate of free fall

All this which speaks against the very argument you want to make is going to force us to believe that in fact, it wasn't a catch simply because the NFL said so
the very same NFL, who admitted to rigging games I don't think so not buying one word of it