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Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 4:58 pm
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote:I literally have no idea why I bother. I feel like it I correct you enough times, somehow you'll get it. Probably not.
Everyone has a plan. Plans are meaningless unless you are able to execute.
make up your mind - everyone has a plan but plans are meaningless ...
If you cannot see a difference in the way this FO does things and the way Danny and Vinny did things, not even riggofan can help you
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 5:02 pm
by SkinsJock
IF Cousins does not sign a long term deal we'll be absolutely fine with those 2 1st round picks - hopefully the #2 pick from the 49ers
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:06 pm
by Countertrey
HEROHAMO wrote: Latter options would be Kappernick
I would immediately become a Cowboys fan.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:18 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:The main reason for the improved play of the O line is Bill Callahan - this offensive line will be good with any decent QB as long as Callahan is here and it will most likely be even better this season with Cousins or another decent QB
meh. Callahan has been a great addition, but the biggest improvement in pass protection came from a QB who gets the ball out of his hands and doesn't go off script every play. I'm not trying to throw all of the credit to Cousins either. Pretty sure McCoy would have the same effect.
Chris Chester looked like a disaster blocking here for RG3. Looked considerably better this year playing in the Super Bowl with Matt Ryan under center. No Bill Callahan help necessary.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:23 pm
by SkinsJock
see - it's a "team" game ... players and coaches get too much credit and too much blame - it's on everyone ...
let's get some better players on D and the DC will look like he's a lot better than Joe Barry
same on offense - if we lose Cousins just bring in another good QB that get's rid of the ball quickly and we're good to go
E A S Y
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:52 pm
by markshark84
riggofan wrote:SkinsJock wrote:The main reason for the improved play of the O line is Bill Callahan - this offensive line will be good with any decent QB as long as Callahan is here and it will most likely be even better this season with Cousins or another decent QB
meh. Callahan has been a great addition, but the biggest improvement in pass protection came from a QB who gets the ball out of his hands and doesn't go off script every play. I'm not trying to throw all of the credit to Cousins either. Pretty sure McCoy would have the same effect.
Chris Chester looked like a disaster blocking here for RG3. Looked considerably better this year playing in the Super Bowl with Matt Ryan under center. No Bill Callahan help necessary.
Agree except for the McCoy statement. McCoy is not good at getting the ball out quickly. Here's the 2014 stats where RGIII, Cousins, and McCoy played under the exact same OL:
Player Comp Att Sack Sack %
RGIII 147 214 33 13.4%
Cousins 126 204 8 3.8%
McCoy 91 128 17 11.7%
Cousins does a VERY good job of avoiding sacks. He's the reason Scherff made the pro bowl. He masks our issue at OL by getting rid of the ball and adjusting protections pre-snap.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 2:16 pm
by riggofan
markshark84 wrote:Cousins does a VERY good job of avoiding sacks. He's the reason Scherff made the pro bowl. He masks our issue at OL by getting rid of the ball and adjusting protections pre-snap.
Interesting about McCoy, I thought his sack numbers were better. I heard one of the commentators the other day talking about how a good QB makes the o-line look better.
Saw the Packers released Sam Shields today. Possible depth target at CB for the Redskins?
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 3:40 pm
by cowboyhater4life
We need youth not veterans at CB. Shields was good for the Packers but I think his playing days could be numbered
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 4:42 pm
by riggofan
cowboyhater4life wrote:We need youth not veterans at CB. Shields was good for the Packers but I think his playing days could be numbered
eh. He's only 29. Exactly the kind of guy you bring in at low cost for depth IMO. I was just wondering about him mainly coming from Green Bay since McCloughan has those connections.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 5:37 pm
by markshark84
riggofan wrote:markshark84 wrote:Cousins does a VERY good job of avoiding sacks. He's the reason Scherff made the pro bowl. He masks our issue at OL by getting rid of the ball and adjusting protections pre-snap.
Interesting about McCoy, I thought his sack numbers were better. I heard one of the commentators the other day talking about how a good QB makes the o-line look better.
Saw the Packers released Sam Shields today. Possible depth target at CB for the Redskins?
Yeah --- McCoy is not as good as people tend to believe. As I have said, without Cousins, we are 4-5 losses worse a year.
And good QBs make their OLs look SIGNIFICANTLY better. It's honestly almost as direct as OL making their RBs look better. QBs do a TON of things that directly affect the OL, whether it is quick release, pocket movement, pre-snap protection adjustments, pre-snap motion, snap count, etc. etc. etc.
You can also see it from a statistical standpoint. For example, Brady is sacked around 20-30 times a year, it's pretty consistent. The year he was injured ---- Cassell was sacked 47 times..... Year before Drew Brees comes to NO, QBs are sacked 41 times, Brees was sacked 18 the subsequent year.... Peyton got sacked like 20 times a year for 18 years; it didn't matter who was on the OL....
It's a story as old as time. And that is another reason I am so bullish on Cousins. Only the "great" QBs have this ability. Rodgers, Stafford, and co. still get sacked. They don't have the ability to make the quick reads that Cousins does. Very very very few QBs do. It's seriously impressive.
Re Shields ---- it honestly depends on the $$$$. I wouldn't give him anything guaranteed. There is the potential to work out a couple years since he is 29, but why did GB cut him? After all, they had one of the worst 2ndarys in the game this past year. I think there is more to his concussion situation than we are aware of. He's already had 4 --- that we know about......
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:14 pm
by Burgundy&GoldForever
markshark84 wrote:It's a story as old as time. And that is another reason I am so bullish on Cousins. Only the "great" QBs have this ability. Rodgers, Stafford, and co. still get sacked. They don't have the ability to make the quick reads that Cousins does. Very very very few QBs do. It's seriously impressive.
We'll see how great his reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:10 pm
by SkinsJock
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:markshark84 wrote: ..that is another reason I am so bullish on Cousins. Only the "great" QBs have this ability. Rodgers, Stafford, and co. still get sacked. They don't have the ability to make the quick reads that Cousins does. Very very very few QBs do. It's seriously impressive.
We'll see how great his reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game.
as someone recently posted - PLEASE "quit confusing people with logic and common sense" ...
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:08 pm
by HEROHAMO
Countertrey wrote:HEROHAMO wrote: Latter options would be Kappernick
I would immediately become a Cowboys fan.
I just threw some names out there who are free agent qbs next year.
In the event that Kirk chooses another team you have to consider options.
Garropolo, Romo and Kappernick are the immediate names that I think would be available. Now that you mention it Kappernick would be my last choice though because of the media baggage he brings.
I'm more concerned about drafting and building a defense.
We aren't one or two pieces away from a SuperBowl? Maybe maybe not? Miracles do happen.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:10 am
by OldSchool
HEROHAMO wrote:1.Qb Kirk Cousins. Not going to spend too much time on the QB situation there are other threads on the subject. It's obviously the top priority according to most.
My thoughts are simple. Offer a fair market offer but not the highest offer. Full intentions on placing the non exclusive franchise tag. If Kirk takes our offer great if not we get compensation.
In the event Kirk signs elsewhere. We are compensated and we go after best available vet QB while we shore up the defense and running game. Tony Romo or Jay Cutler. Latter options would be Kappernick or Garropolo. No way do I draft a qb early. Maybe rounds 4-7.
2. Defense
Opponents averaged 119 yards rushing and 258 yards passing. While giving up 23 points per game. 23rd and 24th in the league. The few positives are the defense was 10th in sacks with 38. Panthers led with 48. The Giants had 35. So our defense can rush the qb.
Holes to fill NT,Ilb,Ilb and fs.
There's no way we could just expect a drastic improvement on defense right away through the draft alone. A combination of veteran free agents 1 or 2 and draft picks could do the trick.
We run a 3-4 defense the most important position is NT. Our draft position is no.17. Great defensive tackles are more rare then even great Qbs. You can count them on one hand. So unless a top prospect drops to us at no.17 in the draft I say we sign a veteran DT. Dontari Poe and Kawaan Short are both free agents. If we are to sign one free agent let it be one of them. It's also very difficult to find in the draft.
Linebackers the inside are terrible. The worst in the league. Should of resigned Keenan Robinson last year. He's now playing well on the Giants for cheap as well. Reminds me of how we let Antonio Pierce and Lavar go to the Giants. Sorry Scott I love you but you dropped the ball on that one.
Finding good linebackers in the draft isn't hard so I say draft one or two. Zach Cunningham 6-4 220 lbs, Lb, Vanderbilt runs a 4.7 is the only prospect I would consider picking at no. 17.
Free saftey....ah one of my favorite positions and one of need and importance. Also for sentimental reasons I place high value on the saftey position. Lucky for us this year's draft has not 1 or 2 but 3 of the best safety prospects in years.
I'M SERIOUS FOLKS. THE NEXT SEAN TAYLOR IS COMING IN THIS DRAFT. WE MUST DRAFT SAFETY.(Please Scott)
1.Malik Hooker 6-2 210lbs safety Ohio state. Runs a 4.4
2.Jabril Peppers 6-1 210 lbs hybrid safety /lb Michigan runs a 4.4.
3. Jamal Adams 6-1 210 lbs saftey LSU runs a 4.5.
I've never seen a draft class with safties this good.
At pick no.17 we must draft one of these safties. My pick would be Jabril Peppers then Hooker. It's likely one of them would be available at no.17. Hooker is projected top 10.
Priority no.3
Fix the running game.
Our offensive line has made huge strides especially in pass protection but our run blocking is still lacking. We need an all around guard/center. I think we could find one in the 2nd round. Good guards are expensive too so I think the draft is the option.
Running backs, Matt Jones is a fumbler. Rob Kelly gives his all but is just a solid backup imho.
I'm torn we only have one pick in the 1st rnd at no.17. This year's draft is excellent at Rb as well.
1.Leonard Fournette 6-1 230lbs,Rb LSU. Runs a 4.5
2. Christian Mccaffrey 6-1 200lbs,Rb Stanford. Runs a 4.4
3. Dalvin Cook 5-11 200lbs ,FSU, runs a 4.4.
3 of the best prospects in years.
So 3 saftey and 3 running back prospects. That's 6 prospects
who could be there at pick no.17. My guess would be either Jabril Peppers or Christian Mccaffrey would be there at no.17.
I'm going to throw out one more name
1.O.J. Howard 6-6 250lbs, tight end,Alabama runs a 4.6. The next Gronk. If Scott is truly best player available I think Howard might be at no.17.
So to summarize here's what I would do.
1. Tag Kirk non exclusive
2. Re sign Baker and Garcon. Desean will be too expensive.
3. I think we have a shot at signing Dontari Poe. Both Eric Berry and Dontari Poe are free agents. I doubt Berry even hits the market. Kawaan Short will be the top paid free agent. Too expensive.
4. Draft Jabril Peppers or Christian Mccaffrey at no.17.
Draft best available guard in 2nd. 3rd round best available inside linebacker.4-7 best available Lbs and defensive tackles.
I think you plan is flawed out of the gate. If they sign Kirk than the top priority is resolved. But it they just tag don't expect Kirk to field offers because it woul be much smarter to play under the tag become an unrestricted FA in 2018. So it is a 1 & done tag for Kirk they need to plan on McCoy starting 2018 or acquire one with a high pick that can take over for Cousins.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:37 am
by markshark84
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:markshark84 wrote:It's a story as old as time. And that is another reason I am so bullish on Cousins. Only the "great" QBs have this ability. Rodgers, Stafford, and co. still get sacked. They don't have the ability to make the quick reads that Cousins does. Very very very few QBs do. It's seriously impressive.
We'll see how great his reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game.
First off, getting the ball out quickly has NOTHING to do with whom (or the talent of) a QB is throwing to. NOTHING. Can't emphasis that enough.
What do you consider "best in the game". Is "above average" or an average #1 WR considered "best in the game" in your mind? I consider "best in the game" to AT LEAST be top 10, if not top 5. And considering neither are top 15, I'd like to know your methodology:
Jones, Beckham, Evans, Brown, Nelson, Cooper, Thomas, Hilton, Fitzgerald, Green, Hopkins, Crabtree, Baldwin, Landry, Sanders (and there are 5 more that are debatable types I left out)
Jackson is a VERY good receiver, he spreads the field and does things that you don't see in the stat line when it comes to offense and opp DEF scheming. We will miss him A LOT next year, but I'd MUCH rather have any of the 15 above. Garcon is a great team-guy, works hard, and plays with tremendous fire ---- but his drop off is NOTICEABLE. His ability to break free after the catch doesn't compare to what it was a couple years ago. I remember in 2012 thinking that every time he got the ball, he could go to the house. Now, he catches it, does some stiff arm type thing, then does a cut (where he slips) or spin move and gets tackled less than 2 yards from where he caught it. He says he's not a possession guy, but that is what he is and if Doctson is ready, he's expendable. And if both these WRs were "best in the game", we would at least attempt to resign them no matter what the Cousins situation is --- because we have the cap room for one of them, even at a top WR salary.
UPDATE: Just took a poll at work on this topic. 8 out of 8 agree that NEITHER DJack nor Garcon are "best in the game" WRs --- and come to think of it, no one even asked the conditions. 3 actually gave me a look of disgust for even bringing it up --- as if they were judging me (I work in a fairly uptight/stuffed shirt, judgy type field). Doesn't count for much, but not one person in the office (at least the ones I consider to know football) agree with you here.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:45 am
by riggofan
markshark84 wrote:Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:markshark84 wrote:It's a story as old as time. And that is another reason I am so bullish on Cousins. Only the "great" QBs have this ability. Rodgers, Stafford, and co. still get sacked. They don't have the ability to make the quick reads that Cousins does. Very very very few QBs do. It's seriously impressive.
We'll see how great his reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game.
What do you consider "best in the game". Is "above average" or an average #1 WR considered "best in the game" in your mind? I consider "best in the game" to AT LEAST be top 10, if not top 5. And considering neither are top 15, I'd like to know your methodology:
Jones, Beckham, Evans, Brown, Nelson, Cooper, Thomas, Hilton, Fitzgerald, Green, Hopkins, Crabtree, Baldwin, Landry, Sanders (and there are 5 more that are debatable types I left out)
I'm not really sure what Cousins' reads have to do with Garcon or Jackson in the first place.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:47 am
by riggofan
Early mock draft on NFL.com. People would lose their **** if this happened.
http://www.nfl.com/draft/2017/mock-draf ... iah/335600
Pick No 17. FORREST LAMP OG WESTERN KENTUCKY
Lamp could play either guard or center for the Redskins.
I've seen mocks lately showing Michigan State DE Taco Charlton as the pick, but he goes to the Ravens at 16 in this one.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:51 am
by markshark84
riggofan wrote:markshark84 wrote:Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:We'll see how great his reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game.
What do you consider "best in the game". Is "above average" or an average #1 WR considered "best in the game" in your mind? I consider "best in the game" to AT LEAST be top 10, if not top 5. And considering neither are top 15, I'd like to know your methodology:
Jones, Beckham, Evans, Brown, Nelson, Cooper, Thomas, Hilton, Fitzgerald, Green, Hopkins, Crabtree, Baldwin, Landry, Sanders (and there are 5 more that are debatable types I left out)
I'm not really sure what Cousins' reads have to do with Garcon or Jackson in the first place.
I actually was updating my post to say the same thing as you were posting this (which I did). So, I agree and don't understand why people would even come to that conclusion (i.e., WRs impact how quickly the ball is thrown ---- considering that in the NFL, most WRs aren't even "open" when the ball is released).
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:54 am
by markshark84
SkinsJock wrote:as someone recently posted - PLEASE "quit confusing people with logic and common sense" ...
Oh man., it's like you
TRY to make yourself look bad......
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 11:55 am
by SkinsJock
oh boy - some here just get so defensive when their golden boy is questioned ... get over yourselves
BG&F did not post that these 2 WRs are THE best in the game - he referred to them as being part of a group that could be considered as "best in the NFL" - Cousins benefitted a lot by just having these 2 guys on the field - Cousins had a lot of passes dropped that could have been caught but he also threw more passes that could never have been caught and some that should never have been thrown
Cousins is a good NFL QB but he was certainly helped by having some very good receivers and the fact that we called a lot of pass plays
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:01 pm
by SkinsJock
markshark84 wrote:SkinsJock wrote:as someone recently posted - PLEASE "quit confusing people with logic and common sense" ...
Oh man., it's like you
TRY to make yourself look bad......
you might want to check the rules ..
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:30 pm
by Burgundy&GoldForever
markshark84 wrote:First off, getting the ball out quickly has NOTHING to do with whom (or the talent of) a QB is throwing to. NOTHING. Can't emphasis that enough.
To hell it doesn't. The QB can't just count to x and throw the ball without any knowledge or confidence his receivers are where they should be or close enough to make a play on the ball.
Yes, Cousins can continue to get rid of the ball "quickly" but when his receivers are average and aren't where they need to be his completion percentage will take a dive and his interceptions will go up.
Without Jackson's speed to stretch the defense there will be more defenders to make plays on those passes.
Without Garcon's hands on 3rd downs there will be more attention paid to Reed.
It's not a vacuum. Everything affects everything else.
This strategy of *f$ck* the offense and fix the defense is not one I'd care to see employed.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:41 pm
by riggofan
SkinsJock wrote:Cousins is a good NFL QB but he was certainly helped by having some very good receivers
Of course he was. What QB wouldn't be helped by that?
Its a fair comment from BGF. I don't personally think that losing Garcon and/or DJax is going to cause Cousins to fall apart, but losing a guy like DJax does seem like it might be less likely he's passing for 4000 yards next season. That guy is a home run hitter, no doubt about it.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:44 pm
by Burgundy&GoldForever
riggofan wrote:Its a fair comment from BGF. I don't personally think that losing Garcon and/or DJax is going to cause Cousins to fall apart, but losing a guy like DJax does seem like it might be less likely he's passing for 4000 yards next season. That guy is a home run hitter, no doubt about it.
The Skins are either about to pay him a fortune or franchise tag him again to find out.
Re: Off season priorities, draft and free angency.
Posted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 12:45 pm
by riggofan
Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Yes, Cousins can continue to get rid of the ball "quickly" but when his receivers are average and aren't where they need to be his completion percentage will take a dive and his interceptions will go up.
You seem to be talking now about a quick RELEASE. What you wrote earlier was about a quick READ. "We'll see how great his
reads are when his X and Y receivers aren't two of the best in the game." That was just confusing.