The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I see the team cut Kendall Reyes this AM. Kind of tells you what the team thinks about this talent v. coaching question.

C00ley was BRUTAL on Reyes this morning doing the film breakdown.

riggofan wrote:I see the team cut Kendall Reyes this AM. Kind of tells you what the team thinks about this talent v. coaching question.

C00ley was BRUTAL on Reyes this morning doing the film breakdown.

I didn't get why he even made the team. He was non-existent in preseason.

Man, we need a player or two on the D-line. This has gotten out of hand, quickly.

Irn-Bru wrote:

riggofan wrote:I see the team cut Kendall Reyes this AM. Kind of tells you what the team thinks about this talent v. coaching question.

C00ley was BRUTAL on Reyes this morning doing the film breakdown.

I didn't get why he even made the team. He was non-existent in preseason.

Man, we need a player or two on the D-line. This has gotten out of hand, quickly.

Wonder what the roster move is now? Can't really let Reyes go without bringing another d-lineman back in. Think its Pot Roast back?

riggofan wrote:I'm just not sure where you see all of the talent on our defense right now. I'm pretty sure we have exactly one first rounder on the field.

It's actually 3; Kerrigan, Ziggy Hood, and (barring injury) Hall.

Compare that with the offense. We started NINE players on Sunday that we drafted. The other two guys were DeSean and Pierre. Not exactly scrubs. I think eight of those nine were drafted in the fourth round or higher including two first round o-line guys.

It's actually not dissimilar to the offense when you look at draft position. Murphy was a 2nd rounder, Smith was a 2nd rounder, Kerrigan was a 1st rounder, Breeland was a 4th rounder, Hall was a 1st rounder, Blackmon was a 4th rounder, Hood was a first, Bruton was a 4th, etc. Baker and Jenkins were UDFA, Norman was a 5th, but Garcon was a 6th for example.

I just have a basic issue with Barry in that he has never had success of a defco. So why the hire?

PulpExposure wrote:It's actually not dissimilar to the offense when you look at draft position. Murphy was a 2nd rounder, Smith was a 2nd rounder, Kerrigan was a 1st rounder, Breeland was a 4th rounder, Hall was a 1st rounder, Blackmon was a 4th rounder, Hood was a first, Bruton was a 4th, etc. Baker and Jenkins were UDFA, Norman was a 5th, but Garcon was a 6th for example.

I just have a basic issue with Barry in that he has never had success of a defco. So why the hire?

Sure, I don't disagree with you on that question at all. I've read that the team wanted to go with a younger DC rather than an older, established guy. But I didn't see anything in Barry's resume at the time that said he should have gotten the job. You can definitely count me among the people screaming for Wade Phillips at the time.

I disagree though with your comparison about draft positions on the offense and defense. A fourth round pick that we drafted is not equivalent to a fourth round pick that someone else drafted and let walk.

Pretty good article on scout.com today says this stuff better than I ever could:

Few coaches can win without talent and the Redskins defensive cabinet is so bare it can star in an episode of Naked and Afraid. Joe Barry is in an impossible situation. When Scot McCloughan was hired, he mentioned that the Skins were at least three years away from contending. This is only year two and last season’s division title has made the fan base impatient. He rebuilt most of the offense, the specialist on teams and the cornerback position. Meanwhile the defensive front seven remains in transition to the point it might not even qualify as work in progress.

McCloughan has used only two of his 17 draft picks on the defensive line. Realize he spent three selections on wide receivers, a position that was already deep with talent. At one point during the second half against the Cleveland Browns, the Redskins defensive line consisted of Ziggy Hood, Cullen Jenkins and Kendall Reyes. Seriously?

http://www.scout.com/nfl/redskins/story ... ad-defense

PulpExposure wrote:It's actually 3; Kerrigan, Ziggy Hood, and (barring injury) Hall.

This hair splitting was just hilarious btw. Hall is out for the season, so I definitely wasn't counting him in our starting 11. And Ziggy Hood is a guy you'll find if you google "first round busts".

"10. Ziggy Hood (2009, No. 32, Missouri) The defensive lineman’s NFL career isn’t over yet, but he never made the impact the Steelers were looking for up front. Hood had trouble cracking the starting lineup and didn’t do much in his time in Pittsburgh. Maybe that’s why the Steelers let him walk."

Did he last a year at Jax after that?

PulpExposure wrote:I just have a basic issue with Barry in that he has never had success of a defco. So why the hire?

We weren't able to get the guy we wanted. Weren't we pushing for Vic Fangio?

Taking emotion out of it and looking at it from a coaching standpoint the inability to tackle is a coaching issue. It seems the Redskins have always had some issue with tackling. We also have had rumblings that practices aren't hard. It seems the Redskins are holding 1st and second downs but allowing 3rd downs at a high success rate. This too seems to be coaching. I would rather go man and blitz than lay back in this passive zone scheme that Barry seems so in love with. I think it's all coaching, and management. Again look we draft a WR with our 1st pick and he has bust written all over him when we could have gotten a DT that we seem to really need. I also don't understand the Redskins lack of ability to draft or get a qualified NT to anchor the 3-4 defense they continue to run. They are always getting Defensive line help with players either past their prime or being used in ways that aren't their strong suit. Let's also admit that Joe Barry doesn't have a stellar resume as it relates to being a DC. So lack of coaching, lack of calling plays at the correct time and lastly using players in plays that aren't their strong point equals what we have, a bad defense that is ranked at the bottom with the exception of turnovers. But those usually don't last and what happens when we don't get 2 fumbles and a interception in a game? I still think there are fundamental issues associated with Joe Barry and his staff. Let's also look at the continued decline of Kerrigan, I wonder what Kerrigan would look like in a Belichick defense or some other top rated defense. Is it his talent is declining or is it the fact that perhaps our LB coach isn't coaching our LB's the proper way? Again this all points to coaching.

Irn-Bru wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:I just have a basic issue with Barry in that he has never had success of a defco. So why the hire?

We weren't able to get the guy we wanted. Weren't we pushing for Vic Fangio?

We took too long with Fangio so he went to work for Chicago and John Fox. Fangio should have never left the building when he was interviewed. Snyder should have done to him what he does to the players he wants.........

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Taking emotion out of it and looking at it from a coaching standpoint the inability to tackle is a coaching issue. It seems the Redskins have always had some issue with tackling. We also have had rumblings that practices aren't hard. It seems the Redskins are holding 1st and second downs but allowing 3rd downs at a high success rate. This too seems to be coaching.

The main issue with tackling is the fact our DEF guys are always going for strips. That needs to stop. I wonder if they do it because they know they can't stop an NFL OFF, so they go for TOs.

With regards to the 3rd down comment, I believe that our inability to stop 3Ds is partly coaching/playcalling; however, I believe it to be 51% on the players. Any DEF player knows that 3D is THE down. You give it everything. Have we seen that type of effort? I haven't. How many 3D plays against CLE were extended by the QB or a result of poor tackling --- the majority. And that's not from bad playcalling --- that from players not making plays. Tackling is a skill you are partly born with and one you learn in college at the latest. Once you are in the NFL, you are learning schemes, speed, etc. Yes, I admit there is a degree of improvement in the NFL, but a DC isn't in charge of that. A DC isn't getting down and showing players proper form.....

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I would rather go man and blitz than lay back in this passive zone scheme that Barry seems so in love with. I think it's all coaching, and management. Again look we draft a WR with our 1st pick and he has bust written all over him when we could have gotten a DT that we seem to really need.

Man is a dying concept. Man and blitz is dangerous and IMHO, we don't have the personnel to use that on a consistent basis (at least at the FS/SS position to pick up WR3, WR4, TE1).

With regard to the WR pick, complaining about that is to not understand Scot's philosophy of best player available (BPA). BPA is what works. If a DT is BPA, you take him, if not, you take the most talented player out there. Scot had a POOR draft this year, no question --- but I'll cut him slack as the alternative is going back to the inconsistencies of the past 20 years (which make me sick). And his 2015 draft was the best this franchise has had in over 30 years (see below).

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also don't understand the Redskins lack of ability to draft or get a qualified NT to anchor the 3-4 defense they continue to run. They are always getting Defensive line help with players either past their prime or being used in ways that aren't their strong suit.

You know we got a new GM in January of 2015, right? The comments you made have nothing to do with Scot's choices. Scot has been here 2 years and his 2015 year draft was remarkable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/01/15/no-nfl-team-got-more-from-2015-draft-class-than-redskins-mel-kiper-says/

I am beginning to believe that Scot understands very few DLs who are signed as FAs work out. There are way too many determinables to predict success with another team. Therefore, he knows they have to come from the draft. So, he has to wait until that happens using the BPA approach. We have had very bad luck with DL, but we have also had a bumbling idiot for a GM over the past 20 years before Scot entered the picture. Due to the determinables, IMHO, DL is the hardest position to anticipate from college to the NFL other than QB (again, because of them having even more determinables). I have been outspoken since the preseason that our DL issues weren't addressed in the offseason. I consider that a fault of Scot, but using his drafting methodology, you can't fault him for not drafting need --- because it has become clear that BPA is the most successful model. And under the BPA model, it takes more time to get there --- but the talent is longer sustained......

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's also admit that Joe Barry doesn't have a stellar resume as it relates to being a DC. So lack of coaching, lack of calling plays at the correct time and lastly using players in plays that aren't their strong point equals what we have, a bad defense that is ranked at the bottom with the exception of turnovers.

Everyone goes back to his resume; and it's true. However, he had the worst DEF talent-wise potentially in NFL history. That being said, I don't think there is much you can do to defend him at this point. His squad is not performing. I would say to keep him for the year, but if it continues, explore what is out there; if someone better is there, go for it.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's also look at the continued decline of Kerrigan, I wonder what Kerrigan would look like in a Belichick defense or some other top rated defense. Is it his talent is declining or is it the fact that perhaps our LB coach isn't coaching our LB's the proper way? Again this all points to coaching.

Decline????? Are you insane???? He was 17th in the entire NFL in sacks last year and 7th the year prior. He was better in 2014 and 2015 than he was in any other previous year. With regards to this year, his numbers are down but it has been 3 games (not counting CLE) and I think the reason is fairly clear --- he doesn't have a decent DE to go behind. I don't think Kerrigan is the concern..... and I don't think it has to do with coaching as he produced in a Barry DEF last year; I believe it to be that we have less talent at the DL. People can say what they want, but Knighton did contribute in creating opportunities for our OLBs and DEs to be singled.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:I just have a basic issue with Barry in that he has never had success of a defco. So why the hire?

We weren't able to get the guy we wanted. Weren't we pushing for Vic Fangio?

We took too long with Fangio so he went to work for Chicago and John Fox. Fangio should have never left the building when he was interviewed. Snyder should have done to him what he does to the players he wants.........

Pretty sure he was using us to get the Chicago job he really wanted. Wade Phillips is the guy who should have gotten the Snyder treatment.

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:
We weren't able to get the guy we wanted. Weren't we pushing for Vic Fangio?

We took too long with Fangio so he went to work for Chicago and John Fox. Fangio should have never left the building when he was interviewed. Snyder should have done to him what he does to the players he wants.........

Pretty sure he was using us to get the Chicago job he really wanted. Wade Phillips is the guy who should have gotten the Snyder treatment.

Agree. I love Wade Phillips. I posting on this forum begging for his signing as DC in 2010, 2014, and 2015.

markshark84 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:
We weren't able to get the guy we wanted. Weren't we pushing for Vic Fangio?

We took too long with Fangio so he went to work for Chicago and John Fox. Fangio should have never left the building when he was interviewed. Snyder should have done to him what he does to the players he wants.........

Agree. I love Wade Phillips. I posting on this forum begging for his signing as DC in 2010, 2014, and 2015.

I don't think any respectable defensive coordinator wanted or wants the job. 1985 Buddy Ryan couldn't do much with this personnel.

I just can't believe somebody wrote on here that "the inability to tackle is a coaching issue". Maybe if you're blaming a Pop Warner coach.

Is there any more basic requirement for the job than the ability to tackle??? If you can't tackle at this point in your career, you probably have no business being in the NFL.

Blaming a coordinator for that kind of failing is the epitome of bullsh** excuse making. Man up and make a play.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I don't think any respectable defensive coordinator wanted or wants the job. 1985 Buddy Ryan couldn't do much with this personnel.

Wade wanted the job. His son was already coaching for the Skins, he was living in the area, and he said he could work with the personnel we had. If you're running a 3-4, Phillips is the man you want to coach it. smh

riggofan wrote:I just can't believe somebody wrote on here that "the inability to tackle is a coaching issue". Maybe if you're blaming a Pop Warner coach.

Is there any more basic requirement for the job than the ability to tackle??? If you can't tackle at this point in your career, you probably have no business being in the NFL.

Blaming a coordinator for that kind of failing is the epitome of bullsh** excuse making. Man up and make a play.

I disagree. Pros actually spend very little time doing real tackling because of how limited practices are, how complicated schemes are (hence how they spend what time they do spend practicing), and the concerns over injuries. If you look at Seattle, they took the time to instill a very different style of tackling with their team, stressing fundamentals and wrapping up. Amazingly, very few teams spend much time on those fundamentals, and it shows on game day.

See for example: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2014/07/2 ... s-tackling

I'd like to see our team focus more on the fundamentals of tackling. As crazy as it sounds, considering we are talking about professionals, it's something that they need to learn and learn again if they're rusty or have forgotten. I agree with markshark that they seem to want to strip the ball right now more than they want to tackle, looking to create a turnover. That's a nice sentiment, but it should only come after we've got a solid, fundamental approach to wrap-and-tackle in place. And that overall approach is very much something that I see as a coach's responsibility — absolutely I do . . . I wouldn't think to put the blame on anyone else if it was missing.

Deadskins wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I don't think any respectable defensive coordinator wanted or wants the job. 1985 Buddy Ryan couldn't do much with this personnel.

Wade wanted the job. His son was already coaching for the Skins, he was living in the area, and he said he could work with the personnel we had. If you're running a 3-4, Phillips is the man you want to coach it. smh

No argument there. It would be asinine to argue Joe Barry was a better choice than Wade Phillips. In his case I genuinely believe it was age discrimination. He is (obviously) otherwise extremely qualified.

I was referring to the other defensive coordinators who came and didn't stay long enough to finish a cup of coffee.

markshark84 wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Taking emotion out of it and looking at it from a coaching standpoint the inability to tackle is a coaching issue. It seems the Redskins have always had some issue with tackling. We also have had rumblings that practices aren't hard. It seems the Redskins are holding 1st and second downs but allowing 3rd downs at a high success rate. This too seems to be coaching.

The main issue with tackling is the fact our DEF guys are always going for strips. That needs to stop. I wonder if they do it because they know they can't stop an NFL OFF, so they go for TOs.

With regards to the 3rd down comment, I believe that our inability to stop 3Ds is partly coaching/playcalling; however, I believe it to be 51% on the players. Any DEF player knows that 3D is THE down. You give it everything. Have we seen that type of effort? I haven't. How many 3D plays against CLE were extended by the QB or a result of poor tackling --- the majority. And that's not from bad playcalling --- that from players not making plays. Tackling is a skill you are partly born with and one you learn in college at the latest. Once you are in the NFL, you are learning schemes, speed, etc. Yes, I admit there is a degree of improvement in the NFL, but a DC isn't in charge of that. A DC isn't getting down and showing players proper form.....

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I would rather go man and blitz than lay back in this passive zone scheme that Barry seems so in love with. I think it's all coaching, and management. Again look we draft a WR with our 1st pick and he has bust written all over him when we could have gotten a DT that we seem to really need.

Man is a dying concept. Man and blitz is dangerous and IMHO, we don't have the personnel to use that on a consistent basis (at least at the FS/SS position to pick up WR3, WR4, TE1).

With regard to the WR pick, complaining about that is to not understand Scot's philosophy of best player available (BPA). BPA is what works. If a DT is BPA, you take him, if not, you take the most talented player out there. Scot had a POOR draft this year, no question --- but I'll cut him slack as the alternative is going back to the inconsistencies of the past 20 years (which make me sick). And his 2015 draft was the best this franchise has had in over 30 years (see below).

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I also don't understand the Redskins lack of ability to draft or get a qualified NT to anchor the 3-4 defense they continue to run. They are always getting Defensive line help with players either past their prime or being used in ways that aren't their strong suit.

You know we got a new GM in January of 2015, right? The comments you made have nothing to do with Scot's choices. Scot has been here 2 years and his 2015 year draft was remarkable. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/football-insider/wp/2016/01/15/no-nfl-team-got-more-from-2015-draft-class-than-redskins-mel-kiper-says/

I am beginning to believe that Scot understands very few DLs who are signed as FAs work out. There are way too many determinables to predict success with another team. Therefore, he knows they have to come from the draft. So, he has to wait until that happens using the BPA approach. We have had very bad luck with DL, but we have also had a bumbling idiot for a GM over the past 20 years before Scot entered the picture. Due to the determinables, IMHO, DL is the hardest position to anticipate from college to the NFL other than QB (again, because of them having even more determinables). I have been outspoken since the preseason that our DL issues weren't addressed in the offseason. I consider that a fault of Scot, but using his drafting methodology, you can't fault him for not drafting need --- because it has become clear that BPA is the most successful model. And under the BPA model, it takes more time to get there --- but the talent is longer sustained......

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's also admit that Joe Barry doesn't have a stellar resume as it relates to being a DC. So lack of coaching, lack of calling plays at the correct time and lastly using players in plays that aren't their strong point equals what we have, a bad defense that is ranked at the bottom with the exception of turnovers.

Everyone goes back to his resume; and it's true. However, he had the worst DEF talent-wise potentially in NFL history. That being said, I don't think there is much you can do to defend him at this point. His squad is not performing. I would say to keep him for the year, but if it continues, explore what is out there; if someone better is there, go for it.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Let's also look at the continued decline of Kerrigan, I wonder what Kerrigan would look like in a Belichick defense or some other top rated defense. Is it his talent is declining or is it the fact that perhaps our LB coach isn't coaching our LB's the proper way? Again this all points to coaching.

Decline????? Are you insane???? He was 17th in the entire NFL in sacks last year and 7th the year prior. He was better in 2014 and 2015 than he was in any other previous year. With regards to this year, his numbers are down but it has been 3 games (not counting CLE) and I think the reason is fairly clear --- he doesn't have a decent DE to go behind. I don't think Kerrigan is the concern..... and I don't think it has to do with coaching as he produced in a Barry DEF last year; I believe it to be that we have less talent at the DL. People can say what they want, but Knighton did contribute in creating opportunities for our OLBs and DEs to be singled.

My decline comment was based on this year. Has he shown you anything this year? He seems slowed and not as explosive.

Irn-Bru wrote:I disagree. Pros actually spend very little time doing real tackling because of how limited practices are, how complicated schemes are (hence how they spend what time they do spend practicing), and the concerns over injuries. If you look at Seattle, they took the time to instill a very different style of tackling with their team, stressing fundamentals and wrapping up. Amazingly, very few teams spend much time on those fundamentals, and it shows on game day.

See for example: http://www.seahawks.com/video/2014/07/2 ... s-tackling

I'd like to see our team focus more on the fundamentals of tackling. As crazy as it sounds, considering we are talking about professionals, it's something that they need to learn and learn again if they're rusty or have forgotten. I agree with markshark that they seem to want to strip the ball right now more than they want to tackle, looking to create a turnover. That's a nice sentiment, but it should only come after we've got a solid, fundamental approach to wrap-and-tackle in place. And that overall approach is very much something that I see as a coach's responsibility — absolutely I do . . . I wouldn't think to put the blame on anyone else if it was missing.

I'll be the first to admit some of you guys know more about actually playing football than I ever will, so its possible I'm completely wrong on this. And I don't doubt there are fine points and different techniques to coach. My point was that I find it highly unlikely these guys got to the NFL in the first place without knowing how to tackle another player.

Our run defense is epically bad right now. The suggestion that its because Joe Barry needs to teach the d-line to tackle better just seems farfetched to say the least.

Let me just say Donte Whitner isn't going to improve the tackling statistics. He is going to improve the safety play because he's always in the area of the receiver.

He's also going to get fined a lot, because he likes to headhunt.

DaSkinz Baby wrote: My decline comment was based on this year. Has he shown you anything this year? He seems slowed and not as explosive.

Fair enough, but I don't really see it. Last year thru 3 games he had 4 tackles and .5 sack. This year 9 tackles and 1.5 sacks. His production has increased. I don't think he is slowing down at age 28. Let's talk in 3 years.

I corrected myself here. His numbers are NOT down.

riggofan wrote: I'll be the first to admit some of you guys know more about actually playing football than I ever will, so its possible I'm completely wrong on this. And I don't doubt there are fine points and different techniques to coach. My point was that I find it highly unlikely these guys got to the NFL in the first place without knowing how to tackle another player.

Our run defense is epically bad right now. The suggestion that its because Joe Barry needs to teach the d-line to tackle better just seems farfetched to say the least.

I can only say from my personal experiences that don't include any professional ball ----- but emphasis is primarily put on tackling by the group coaches. The meathead stuff --- Oklahoma, tunnel, pitt, etc. drills are generally done in the spring or "offseason" sessions and honestly while it is the most fun you'll have with any drill at any practice, it doesn't teach you s&!t. And the meathead drills are observed by everyone, including the HC, DC, OC, etc. People just eat that s&!t up.

As you get older and further into high school & beyond, coaches fear injuries and limit hard contact by the end of summer (not only because of the prescribed guidelines for "contact" practices). For this and the fact tackling techniques (while generally the same in certain ways) vary depending on your position --- are why position coaches are so important and are on the front lines of developing their players. In my experience, DCs are less involved in fundamentals development and more involved in analyzing talent, determining scheme, quality control, meeting with the HC, and then high level coaching to particular players.

As I said earlier --- much of the ability to tackle is God-given. Everyone needs to learn the proper techniques/fundamentals; I learned that in high school (mom wouldn't let me play FB in grade school....), but most learn it in pop warner. You will continue to improve as you climb the ranks, but I don't see how anyone on the planet should ONLY be upset at the NFL DC when his players aren't tackling well --- given the DC's duties and amount of time allocated to contact drills. That being said, you CAN be upset if it continues as the DC is in charge of what to work on ---- but I believe the NFLPA prevents "contact" practices to a high degree, so when would instruction be done? I don't know the rules with regards to what "contact" involves within the NFLPA, but in order to improve, you have to first learn the technique, then apply it IN PRACTICE at half speed, move to full speed, train muscle memory, and then get instruction as to what is not translating with regards to your technique when transition it from "non contact" to "contact", etc.

This has gotten too long, but what I am saying is that we shouldn't blame the DC for lack of fundamentals. That is on the position coaches --- from high school and college. It is more the GMs fault for IDing it when drafting/signing. HOWEVER, if it continues, it's on the DC as he is the one that has control over what is worked on moving forward.