The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

/\^^^ bout sums it up right there

If we have a really good passing game, nobody will care what sort of running game we have

and

we'll be able to run the ball because everyone will be looking to stop the really good passing game

DarthMonk wrote: .. We don't have to run the ball real well but we have to run the ball enough times to keep people honest.

BS - that's an old fashioned cliche - today's NFL offenses are a lot more complicated - all you need is a good QB and an OC that knows what weapons he's got and how best to attack the defense

If the D is showing Max cover with their best pass rushers on the field every snap...

We don't run at all to get them to change the package?

You have to do both, cuz if not, the D will put it's best formation on the field to stop yours. If you run the play they think you are going to, then they have the best chance of stopping you.

For instance, they have their nickel or dime package with an actual athletic DB on Reed instead of that beautiful mismatched LB that Kirk looks for.

We can't just expect to pass all over everyone with out the hint of a run game brag!

Things HAVE changed, but some thing ALWAYS stay the same!

Pass to open the run and run to open the pass... keep it mixed up, and keep em guessing!

Do you even Madden???

I love how some here think that they can ONLY make their point by exaggerating - I certainly do not think that we're going to have an offense with zero run plays

I'm a lot less worried about how effective the offense will be than others here because I'm a lot more confident that the OC and Jay will find a way to make it work

and

I'm VERY sure these coaches do not get any help or creative ideas from a stupid game

You sure about that? I happen to know MANY pros not only enjoy Madden, but partake in designing the game..

Not a surprise, you fail to grasp the point.

Best passing team? Name them.

And I'll name their better then average RB.

I'll go further and say teams like NYG have been handcuffed due to the lack of a viable RB.. where as Brady can feast on the opposing D while coach provides RB after RB to get it done in NE.

I think we are all just saying our run game needs to be respected at least, in order for our other weapons to have the best chance to shine.

No big deal man

I doubt that Scot or Jay were thinking that this franchise was going to have a better than average RB this season and I doubt that they're concerned that that would inhibit this offense at all OR they would have taken steps much sooner than this - ESPECIALLY when you consider that Jones was a HUGE question mark at RB BEFORE this injury

I'm sure that Sean and Jay will have a good offensive game plan and not having a better than average RB is not a big deal especially when they've got this really good QB that's going to be really motivated to prove that he's a lot better QB than most think he is

like you aluded to and something I totally agree with - Matt Jones injury is no big deal at all

This isn't brain science or rocket surgery.

If the Redskins can't run the football at least close to the NFL average of 4.0 yard per carry then opposing teams will scheme defenses that place only seven players "in the box" whether that be four down lineman and three linebackers or three down linemen and four linebackers. Either way the strong safety and short corner will play deeper because they don't have to offer run support. That will affect the passing game. Teams aren't going to be surprised by that under ten yard passing attack this season, and while it may still be effective it will be less so without the viable threat of a running game. We need to hope either Robert Kelley or Keith Marshall or both step up big in Friday's game against a good Bills running defense because one of them could be starting week one. And if the front office is still sold on Matt Jones long-term they're probably alone in that. Durability is now a concern. He had the same injury last season.

FWIW - last season Buffalo and Tampa Bay led the league at 4.8 per carry

the Redskins were near the bottom at 3.7 but we were better than the Patriots at 3.6

our front office decided that they could let Alfred go

everyone here knew that Matt Jones was not going to help our running game so the front office also knew this

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:This isn't brain science or rocket surgery.

If the Redskins can't run the football at least close to the NFL average of 4.0 yard per carry then opposing teams will scheme defenses that place only seven players "in the box" whether that be four down lineman and three linebackers or three down linemen and four linebackers. Either way the strong safety and short corner will play deeper because they don't have to offer run support. That will affect the passing game. Teams aren't going to be surprised by that under ten yard passing attack this season, and while it may still be effective it will be less so without the viable threat of a running game. We need to hope either Robert Kelley or Keith Marshall or both step up big in Friday's game against a good Bills running defense because one of them could be starting week one. And if the front office is still sold on Matt Jones long-term they're probably alone in that. Durability is now a concern. He had the same injury last season.

Dang no love for Mack Brown? I thought he was the only back I've seen that moved a pile. Yes he's slow but not sold on Kelley nor Marshall neither, they seem weak. Kelley padded his stats on a run that was perfectly blocked.

HURT THE RUN GAME: (in no order)

Kirk Cousins - When your defense are able to put a safety in the box or play low & be aggressive it is because they don't fear our medium to deep passing. Teams to me didn't fear Kirk Cousins enough. So they said ok we gon play it closer to the line of scrimmage because he's not going to beat us deep. Therefore clogging up lanes alot quicker. Why not blitz when he gon throw a 8 yard pass at best? At midway through the season Kirk was ranked 37th in yards per pass. Even when Desean came back we were lucky if we went to him twice a game on deep throws. Being more aggressive can keep a safety out of the box and have your lb and dline in passrush lanes more, opening up the run.

TE'S - I don't know how many times our TE failed to block a linebacker, who rushes in and hit the RB behind the line of scrimmage. None of them are good at pulling and our rb's don't get wide enough for them to seal an edge most of the times.

Coaching - Gruden will say out his mouth he want to run the ball but at the end of the day we all know Gruden & McVay prefer passing and it shows. With Shanahan you had to be able to block on each position down to WR or you wouldn't play. There is no discipline or lack of accountability for poor performance in the run game. McVay calls run on 1st down it seems like 80% of the time. Why not pass sometimes to setup the run? Defense's typically know our snap count. Watch who gets off the ball faster on most of the plays at the line of scrimmage...the defense! Someone's keying someone off as well as the direction they are going. Maybe it is the strange communication on RUN plays. I believe last year they indicated that on run plays it will go from Callahan to McVay to Gruden. Although I think it was somewhat cleared up that Callahan wouldn't call plays maybe he is and when a defense see him whisper in the headphone they know it is a run.

Something needs to change but I don't think it will with this coaching staff. We would need an elite running back to overcome the deficiencies and we do not have one.

SkinsJock wrote:

DarthMonk wrote: .. We don't have to run the ball real well but we have to run the ball enough times to keep people honest.

BS - that's an old fashioned cliche - today's NFL offenses are a lot more complicated - all you need is a good QB and an OC that knows what weapons he's got and how best to attack the defense

Wrong. It's the new truth. The old cliche is that you must be able to run the ball. Does anyone pass every down ? Nope. Not even close. Because no OC thinks that's "how best way to attack the defense."

It's less about yards per carry and more about making the D honor the run.

Someone else said "viable threat." That's what we need.

this coaching staff knows what they have offensively and will game plan accordingly

we do not have a good offensive line and we do not have a good RB but we and they have known that for months

it's going to be fun

mastdark81 wrote:Dang no love for Mack Brown? I thought he was the only back I've seen that moved a pile. Yes he's slow but not sold on Kelley nor Marshall neither, they seem weak. Kelley padded his stats on a run that was perfectly blocked.

If it's me I get rid of Jones. I think he's the weakest link of all. I think we've seen all we're ever going to see from him. I like Brown but he's going to be the victim of a numbers game. McCloughan will keep his 2016 draft pick and UDFA. It's possible they try to slip either Kelley or Marshall on the practice squad but it's also possible only one of those two makes the roster.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:Dang no love for Mack Brown? I thought he was the only back I've seen that moved a pile. Yes he's slow but not sold on Kelley nor Marshall neither, they seem weak. Kelley padded his stats on a run that was perfectly blocked.

If it's me I get rid of Jones. I think he's the weakest link of all. I think we've seen all we're ever going to see from him. I like Brown but he's going to be the victim of a numbers game. McCloughan will keep his 2016 draft pick and UDFA. It's possible they try to slip either Kelley or Marshall on the practice squad but it's also possible only one of those two makes the roster.

Get rid of JONES???

Dude, all of this mad respect I have for you for picking out Kelley months ago... I just don't know now.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

mastdark81 wrote:Dang no love for Mack Brown? I thought he was the only back I've seen that moved a pile. Yes he's slow but not sold on Kelley nor Marshall neither, they seem weak. Kelley padded his stats on a run that was perfectly blocked.

If it's me I get rid of Jones. I think he's the weakest link of all. I think we've seen all we're ever going to see from him. I like Brown but he's going to be the victim of a numbers game. McCloughan will keep his 2016 draft pick and UDFA. It's possible they try to slip either Kelley or Marshall on the practice squad but it's also possible only one of those two makes the roster.

I think Jones deserves another shot but I can admit he's on thin ice. He does give you something that no other back that I've seen with my own eyes give you and thats the ability to make plays and can catch out the backfield. Honestly to me the best back on the team right now is Chris Thompson and Jones should spell him. Then Mack Brown would be my backup. I say this for the type of offense we probably want to run.

CT is oft injured and certainly doesn't strike me as the feature back type.. he just can't handle the work load... but I get where your head is at.

riggofan wrote:Get rid of JONES???

Dude, all of this mad respect I have for you for picking out Kelley months ago... I just don't know now.

If the Redskins cut Jones do you think any other team in the league would sign him as their starting back? I'm not convinced any team would.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:Get rid of JONES???

Dude, all of this mad respect I have for you for picking out Kelley months ago... I just don't know now.

If the Redskins cut Jones do you think any other team in the league would sign him as their starting back? I'm not convinced any team would.

I don't know about their starting back, but I'm 100% sure somebody would sign him and he would make a roster.

He's entering his second season after a decent first year. He has to show he's not going to be perpetually fumbling and that he can stay healthy. I'm not really sure at this point what's changed about that or what has happened that we'd be thinking about cutting him. Banged up his shoulder in a preseason game?

Seems to me allowing Morris to leave and deciding to keep a fumbling 2 year injury prone back is a stupid and retarded move. I know Jay has a pass first mentality however we need a 1000 yard back and Jay needs to have a viable running option, the pass to open up the running game is stupid. Especially when you have a QB that hasn't proven consistency. I hope to be wrong but I think the decision to allow Morris to go is going to bite us in the ass.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Seems to me allowing Morris to leave and deciding to keep a fumbling 2 year injury prone back is a stupid and retarded move. I know Jay has a pass first mentality however we need a 1000 yard back and Jay needs to have a viable running option, the pass to open up the running game is stupid. Especially when you have a QB that hasn't proven consistency. I hope to be wrong but I think the decision to allow Morris to go is going to bite us in the ass.

We have a 1,000+ yard back. He wears #22. You heard it here first.

I am not a big Jay Gruden fan but I do think that he and the offensive coaches know a whole lot more than we all do about the players they have and what they need to game plan in order to best suit those players
the Redskins' RB 'issue' is not that big of a deal or they would have found a way to address it - we may not have the 'star' RB that some might like but I highly doubt the Redskins would go into a season without a way to run the ball when they want to

SkinsJock wrote:I am not a big Jay Gruden fan but I do think that he and the offensive coaches know a whole lot more than we all do about the players they have and what they need to game plan in order to best suit those players
the Redskins' RB 'issue' is not that big of a deal or they would have found a way to address it - we may not have the 'star' RB that some might like but I highly doubt the Redskins would go into a season without a way to run the ball when they want to

btw - and not picking on you SkinsJock - but I've noticed this pattern where people praise Scot McCloughan for roster moves they like and complain about Jay Gruden for roster moves they don't!

Nobody is infallible, but the GM made a decision on letting Morris walk. I still trust him on it. Think we'll be ok.

For what it's worth.

Alfred Morris signed a 2 year, $3,500,000 contract with the Dallas Cowboys, including a $1,000,000 signing bonus, $1,800,000 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $1,750,000. In 2016, Morris will earn a base salary of $800,000 and a signing bonus of $1,000,000.

Matt Jones signed a 4 year, $2,951,415 contract with the Washington Redskins, including a $599,415 signing bonus, $599,415 guaranteed, and an average annual salary of $737,854. In 2016, Jones will earn a base salary of $539,000 and a workout bonus of $10,000.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I am not a big Jay Gruden fan but I do think that he and the offensive coaches know a whole lot more than we all do about the players they have and what they need to game plan in order to best suit those players
the Redskins' RB 'issue' is not that big of a deal or they would have found a way to address it - we may not have the 'star' RB that some might like but I highly doubt the Redskins would go into a season without a way to run the ball when they want to

btw - and not picking on you SkinsJock - but I've noticed this pattern where people praise Scot McCloughan for roster moves they like and complain about Jay Gruden for roster moves they don't!

Nobody is infallible, but the GM made a decision on letting Morris walk. I still trust him on it. Think we'll be ok.

I agree and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was intimating that Gruden may not have wanted Alf here - the FO made the decision and I'm not sure it's that big a deal - I don't think that the offense is going to be that badly affected by this injury

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I am not a big Jay Gruden fan but I do think that he and the offensive coaches know a whole lot more than we all do about the players they have and what they need to game plan in order to best suit those players
the Redskins' RB 'issue' is not that big of a deal or they would have found a way to address it - we may not have the 'star' RB that some might like but I highly doubt the Redskins would go into a season without a way to run the ball when they want to

btw - and not picking on you SkinsJock - but I've noticed this pattern where people praise Scot McCloughan for roster moves they like and complain about Jay Gruden for roster moves they don't!

Nobody is infallible, but the GM made a decision on letting Morris walk. I still trust him on it. Think we'll be ok.

I agree and I'm sorry if it seemed like I was intimating that Gruden may not have wanted Alf here - the FO made the decision and I'm not sure it's that big a deal - I don't think that the offense is going to be that badly affected by this injury

No, seriously, wasn't pointing my comment towards you at all. Just reminded me.

I'm with you though on roster moves right now. He's not perfect, but I'm feeling confident McCloughan is making the most informed football decision possible.