snyder/griffin

[riggofan]

I am not local so I may have missed a lot but all I ever remember Jason Reid saying was "Winter is Coming." I knew he was one of the first to turn on RG3 but why didn't he report some of this stuff earlier?

Just a guess but Reid has a real soft spot for RGIII. And he's not one to write "Black Negative" works.

Wow. I can't believe you wrote that. Soft spot for RG3? Reid was one of RG3's harshest critics, calling for him to be benched in favor of Cousins for a LOOOOONG time.

He's been reporting this story for years now. This latest one just has more details. Its a big reason he doesn't have a show on the Redskins owned radio station anymore.

Good grief, here's an article from 2014. Jason Reid Tells All After Reported Robert Griffin III Benching

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2014/11/ ... iffin-iii/

"Part of Reid’s position, by nature, requires remaining silent, at times — withholding information from the public until the right moment.

Well, the RGIII era may very well be over now in the nation’s capital"

[SkinsJock]

DUH - NEWS FLASH - the RG3 'era' as a QB here was over a long time ago - the RG3 era as Dan Snyder's 'pet' ended when he was cut

the media will keep coming up with this trash because that is what gets them attention and that is their job - well, some of them, anyway


to be continued ...

[riggofan]

:shock: DUH - NEWS FLASH - the RG3 'era' as a QB here was over a long time ago - the RG3 era as Dan Snyder's 'pet' ended when he was cut

the media will keep coming up with this trash because that is what gets them attention and that is their job - well, some of them, anyway


to be continued ...

Insightful.

[markshark84]

This is a one sided "Shanny" special. Guy continues to spread blame about the failure of RG3 as if it's solely RG3 and Snyder's fault. Yeah, there is fault on that side, but Shanahan has also got to bear some blame and consistently acts as if he was a victim.

For example, in the article, it paints a picture where RG3 calls them into a room and tells them essentially to sit down and shut up while he talks. What coach would put up with that kind of intro? Especially a coach who is a notorious control freak like Shanny has been. Who actually believes this happened?

It's amazing he continually tars and feathers RG3, when he owes a debt to RG3; he had a very unsuccessful stint in DC up until 2012, and even during that year, essentially threw the towel in at 3-6 (remember the whole "We'll see who plays for a job next year") until the team rallied. Besides that 2012 year, Shanahan was a horrible coach in DC. 6-10, 5-11, 10-6, 3-13. He was worse than Zorn.

I'm tired of hearing from Shanahan. I'm tired of hearing about RG3. He's not in DC anymore, so good riddance.

The "source" was definitely MS. And while I don't like the guy, I don't blame him. The reason RGIII was drafted was 100% due to Snyder. That has been proven. MS's pick, Cousins, is the one that just got franchised.... If I were MS, I would also want people to know the truth about what happened --- after being the one primarily blamed for his inability to develop RGII (especially when RGIII was forced onto him and the reasons that got him fired were proven correct when Gruden gave up on RGIII after seeing how inept he was at being a pocket QB).

As far as the RGIII-room issue --- if one of my staff wanted to have a performance meeting where they wanted to air out their grievances or discuss the potential of working differently, I won't say "No, I'm the boss. Sit down and shut up." That makes no sense. Why wouldn't MS hear him out. He had no idea what he was going to say. People ask for uninterrupted time CONSTANTLY in my line of work. You respect it because (in this case) RGIII earned that respect. I see no reason why that wouldn't have happened and no reason why this wouldn't be the norm ---- no matter how egotistical or controlling the MS is. I have heard first hand stories about players doing the same with Parcells.

I don't think he is "tarring and feathering" RGIII --- more that he is merely telling what actually happened. The fact we haven't heard anything in response from any other party --- especially after RGIII is gone and Snyder is free to do or say whatever he wants --- there is little doubt that MS's side is accurate. This is also confirmed thru subsequent actions, like the fact that Snyder, for the first time in nearly 20 years, hired his FIRST general manager..... or all the statements RGIII has indirectly made about learning, maturation, etc. It appears that RGIII and Snyder have LEARNED from this experience --- because they were the ones that were in the wrong. And I really hope RGIII has learned and crushes it in CLE. I have no ill will towards him. I really think he's a good person and hope he is successful as he will be a great role model for the younger generation.

This all being said ---- I 100% agree that MS was a horrible coach in DC. His record speaks to that. He did inherit a horrendous team --- BUT he only could go up... and didn't. There are extenuating circumstances like the lack of picks, salary cap, etc. issues that didn't help him though. But I'm sure MS continues to bring it up because (1) he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by something he couldn't control, (2) he doesn't want his son's reputation tarnished, (3) he was prevented from using his preferred players; players that were proven superior after he was fired, and (4) it wasn't his fault.

I am also tired of hearing about it --- but then again, I read the articles......

[SkinsJock]

:shock: DUH - NEWS FLASH - the RG3 'era' as a QB here was over a long time ago - the RG3 era as Dan Snyder's 'pet' ended when he was cut
the media will keep coming up with this trash because that is what gets them attention and that is their job - well, some of them, anyway

to be continued ...

Insightful.

thanks, glad you took it that way - it was really directed at the media and people that make a living keeping stuff like this 'active'

[SkinsJock]

Hopefully what Shanahan did here hurts his chances at the HOF - he was almost certainly going in before he came here

hopefully Griffin shows what can happen when players are better prepared and better coached ...

there is no way a good HC allows players to get away with what reportedly happened OR let's an owner treat him as badly as reported

[Deadskins]

I 100% agree that MS was a horrible coach in DC. His record speaks to that. He did inherit a horrendous team --- BUT he only could go up... and didn't. There are extenuating circumstances like the lack of picks, salary cap, etc. issues that didn't help him though. But I'm sure MS continues to bring it up because (1) he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by something he couldn't control, (2) he doesn't want his son's reputation tarnished, (3) he was prevented from using his preferred players; players that were proven superior after he was fired, and (4) it wasn't his fault.

I disagree. When he was hired he repeatedly said he was given 100% control, and that in all personnel decisions the buck stopped with him. He wouldn't even take the job unless DS had at least told him this was the case. So, if DS went back on his word, or was meddling in MS's player and coaching decisions, then that was the time to speak up and force the issue. Not three years later, when you're trying to save some sort of legacy by throwing the blame at the Danny. Sorry, but the buck stops with MS on this one, and he's just digging his own hole even deeper in my opinion.

[riggofan]

I 100% agree that MS was a horrible coach in DC. His record speaks to that. He did inherit a horrendous team --- BUT he only could go up... and didn't. There are extenuating circumstances like the lack of picks, salary cap, etc. issues that didn't help him though. But I'm sure MS continues to bring it up because (1) he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by something he couldn't control, (2) he doesn't want his son's reputation tarnished, (3) he was prevented from using his preferred players; players that were proven superior after he was fired, and (4) it wasn't his fault.

I disagree. When he was hired he repeatedly said he was given 100% control, and that in all personnel decisions the buck stopped with him. He wouldn't even take the job unless DS had at least told him this was the case. So, if DS went back on his word, or was meddling in MS's player and coaching decisions, then that was the time to speak up and force the issue. Not three years later, when you're trying to save some sort of legacy by throwing the blame at the Danny. Sorry, but the buck stops with MS on this one, and he's just digging his own hole even deeper in my opinion.

DS I basically agree with what you're saying about Shanahan. He can blame Snyder all he wants, doesn't make him look any better.

I will say though I don't think he's out there on some legacy saving PR tour right now. This was a pretty in depth article that Jason Reid has probably wanted to write for a long time. No doubt he spent some time getting that full story out of Shanny (or at least the MS version).

[riggofan]

:lol: thanks, glad you took it that way - it was really directed at the media and people that make a living keeping stuff like this 'active'

I know you're tired of this story in general. I feel that way looking at "news" about the name "controversy".

I always find the behind the scenes stuff around NFL teams really interesting though. And so much of this stuff that we suspect or guess at, you don't find out until years later.

[markshark84]

I 100% agree that MS was a horrible coach in DC. His record speaks to that. He did inherit a horrendous team --- BUT he only could go up... and didn't. There are extenuating circumstances like the lack of picks, salary cap, etc. issues that didn't help him though. But I'm sure MS continues to bring it up because (1) he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by something he couldn't control, (2) he doesn't want his son's reputation tarnished, (3) he was prevented from using his preferred players; players that were proven superior after he was fired, and (4) it wasn't his fault.

I disagree. When he was hired he repeatedly said he was given 100% control, and that in all personnel decisions the buck stopped with him. He wouldn't even take the job unless DS had at least told him this was the case. So, if DS went back on his word, or was meddling in MS's player and coaching decisions, then that was the time to speak up and force the issue. Not three years later, when you're trying to save some sort of legacy by throwing the blame at the Danny. Sorry, but the buck stops with MS on this one, and he's just digging his own hole even deeper in my opinion.

I understand what you are saying. I recall DANNY BOY saying he was giving MS 100% control ---- at a time the fans had enough of Danny and were nearly attempting a boycott of the team. But saying and doing are two very different things. And as you say similarly --- and as Danny boy has historically/consistently done --- he told MS all the things he wanted to hear in order to get MS to sign as HC. MS signed, brought in his team, etc. and then Danny boy went above him in drafting RGIII......

I am sure Danny boy thought to himself as he made the trade "Who cares if MS doesn't like this. He'll get over it when he sees how incredible RGIII is. Besides I am the best football mind in the NFL; I can't be wrong. And WTF is MS going to do about it at this point, the deal is done, he signed a 5 yr deal and he's got his son on staff. He'll deal with it and thank me later considering the fact RGIII is amazing and due to much I'm paying him. I'll invite him on my yacht after the draft. He'll love it....."

At that point, what is MS to do? Does he quit? Does he storm out? Remember, he did have a son on staff and had come off 2 losing seasons. Quiting would have made him look worse as if he were giving up. The trade/drafting was already done; the only thing he could do was to draft Cousins (and I believe he did that in response to the actions taken by Danny boy). He retooled the offense to great success. It wasn't sustainable and then was truly "stuck" with RGIII.

I agree that MS is trying to save some sort of legacy. No question. But I think the blame should be placed on the individual that DIRECTLY DID THE THINGS AT ISSUE --- not the one with the empty title that wasn't permitted (in this isolated case) to make the decision. That is politics 101. Push blame based on title and not on the one that actually did it. It's like Danny boy set up MS as the "fall guy" but MS instead opted for the whistle blower route......

[markshark84]

I 100% agree that MS was a horrible coach in DC. His record speaks to that. He did inherit a horrendous team --- BUT he only could go up... and didn't. There are extenuating circumstances like the lack of picks, salary cap, etc. issues that didn't help him though. But I'm sure MS continues to bring it up because (1) he doesn't want his reputation tarnished by something he couldn't control, (2) he doesn't want his son's reputation tarnished, (3) he was prevented from using his preferred players; players that were proven superior after he was fired, and (4) it wasn't his fault.

I disagree. When he was hired he repeatedly said he was given 100% control, and that in all personnel decisions the buck stopped with him. He wouldn't even take the job unless DS had at least told him this was the case. So, if DS went back on his word, or was meddling in MS's player and coaching decisions, then that was the time to speak up and force the issue. Not three years later, when you're trying to save some sort of legacy by throwing the blame at the Danny. Sorry, but the buck stops with MS on this one, and he's just digging his own hole even deeper in my opinion.

DS I basically agree with what you're saying about Shanahan. He can blame Snyder all he wants, doesn't make him look any better.

I will say though I don't think he's out there on some legacy saving PR tour right now. This was a pretty in depth article that Jason Reid has probably wanted to write for a long time. No doubt he spent some time getting that full story out of Shanny (or at least the MS version).

I agree that blaming Danny boy won't make him look any better. Everyone already knows Danny boy is a joke. The fact he teamed up with a joke inherently makes his decisions questionable.

But I think there is a little PR going on --- at least as his eligibility to the HOF goes. I don't think that is the main reason, but I think it's decent sized factor. I think the other major piece is that he doesn't want to get blamed for something that wasn't his fault or choosing.

Regardless, what these articles are saying is consistent with what I've been posting on this subject for the past couple years. They are now coming out from all directions.....
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2640916-washington-owner-dan-snyder-ruined-his-own-quarterback-star?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

[SkinsJock]

:lol: thanks, glad you took it that way - it was really directed at the media and people that make a living keeping stuff like this 'active'

I know you're tired of this story in general. I feel that way looking at "news" about the name "controversy".
I always find the behind the scenes stuff around NFL teams really interesting though. And so much of this stuff that we suspect or guess at, you don't find out until years later.

true dat - I'm sure that a lot of stuff that we've read or 'heard about' is based on fact - it's just that somehow the facts get twisted to suit the teller's agenda

I'm V biased against Shanahan because he did not do as good a job as he's capable of + he allowed Snyder to continue to screw things up

Snyder's 'reputation' was well known and Shanahan is trying to make excuses for what happened here

Shanahan 'orchestrated' the whole deal here well in advance of his coming in and then did not make much of a difference at all - eff him

[SkinsJock]

just reading some of these posts makes it very clear that Snyder and Shanahan aren't the only guys that know how to make things up

[Deadskins]

At that point, what is MS to do? Does he quit? Does he storm out? Remember, he did have a son on staff and had come off 2 losing seasons. Quiting would have made him look worse as if he were giving up. The trade/drafting was already done; the only thing he could do was to draft Cousins (and I believe he did that in response to the actions taken by Danny boy). He retooled the offense to great success. It wasn't sustainable and then was truly "stuck" with RGIII.

No, he doesn't quit. What he does is say to Danny, "Look, you hired me to run this team. You said I had 100% control, and I've said as much in press conferences. So, you either let me do the job you hired me to do, or you fire me." If the Danny fires him, then he can bitch and moan all he wants and I'd accept it, but he's playing it like he should get none of the blame, and it just makes me sick.

[SkinsJock]

^^ NAILED IT

[HEROHAMO]

Move on Mike. Griffin is now a Brown.

[SkinsJock]

+ 1 - Let it go Mike and pray that Griffin shows that he cannot play QB in the NFL ...

a little over 100 days to go ...

[DarthMonk]

SNYDER ....................................................................................................... GRIFFIN

[markshark84]

No, he doesn't quit. What he does is say to Danny, "Look, you hired me to run this team. You said I had 100% control, and I've said as much in press conferences. So, you either let me do the job you hired me to do, or you fire me." If the Danny fires him, then he can bitch and moan all he wants and I'd accept it, but he's playing it like he should get none of the blame, and it just makes me sick.

He says all this AFTER the trade???? What does that do? The damage is already done. At that point, MS is under contract. He can walk away, but he'd be walking from $15M and two seasons where he amassed 11 total wins (not a good place to leave -- especially after he had done a good deal to improve the squad from the one he inherited). Words are useless. Precedent was set as soon as the trade was made. As I said, MS did what he could --- thru actions --- by drafting Cousins.

Danny boy could have easily responded with "Ok, I understand MS. But what's done is done. We've got our franchise QB. Bruce graded him at a 10. Let's see how this plays out. You are a HOF coach working with the most talented QB in the 2012 class. The results will be incredible. You'll see."

Personally, I don't think MS should get the blame for the trade (especially because it had Danny boy written ALL OVER IT) --- BUT I do agree he was part of the problem in certain respects. That said, he put together an offense where RGIII could be successful utilizing his skill set and then, in 2013, played RGIII the way RGIII "demanded" via his conference. Then, when Gruden came in, everything that MS was saying was confirmed --- rather quickly. The part I believe MS should get blamed for was how the injury was handled. He is also being a doucher by bringing all this up 2 years later. But at the end of the day, the vast majority of the blame goes to Danny boy, RGIII, and Bruce.

Honest question --- what specifically do you think MS should have done differently given/assuming the trade was done without his approval?

[Deadskins]

You act like the trade was made without his knowledge, and I don't think that is the case. I'm pretty sure even Shanny never made that assertion. He said he had final say on player personnel, and he would have therefore had to give his go ahead for the trade. But, even if they did make the trade behind his back, that excuse only works for 2012 (though he didn't have to start him day 1). 2013, and beyond is on Shanny. If RGIII wasn't ready to return, then he should have made that call. And, if RGIII made the kind of ultimatum Shanny says he did, then he should have said, "You'll run the plays Jr. calls, or you will sit. Tell Danny to call me if he doesn't agree, and I'll tell him the same."

[SkinsJock]

memo to Mike - STFU and just swallow - it will not taste as bad as you think

[Countertrey]

memo to Mike - STFU and just swallow - it will not taste as bad as you think

I'm sure someone will take this bait... smh

[SkinsJock]

[welch]

I wish Griffin well, and Jason Reid wrote a thorough article. However, Griffin is with Cleveland, so the analysis is no more relevant than Eddie LeBaron / Ralph Guglielmi / Rudy Bukich.

In about two months, it 2016.

[markshark84]

You act like the trade was made without his knowledge, and I don't think that is the case. I'm pretty sure even Shanny never made that assertion. He said he had final say on player personnel, and he would have therefore had to give his go ahead for the trade. But, even if they did make the trade behind his back, that excuse only works for 2012 (though he didn't have to start him day 1). 2013, and beyond is on Shanny. If RGIII wasn't ready to return, then he should have made that call. And, if RGIII made the kind of ultimatum Shanny says he did, then he should have said, "You'll run the plays Jr. calls, or you will sit. Tell Danny to call me if he doesn't agree, and I'll tell him the same."

I am not sure whether it was made without his knowledge, but I do think the trade was made regardless of MS' thoughts on the issue. Such as "yeah MS we just trade for RGIII, FYI. It's a done deal." I could be wrong, but if I had to pick between MS or Danny boy ---- when the situation was quintessential Danny boy --- I'm going with history.

For 2013, I agree that he should have benched RGIII, but I'd be interested to see the real story on that. And if the ultimatum was made by Danny to play RGIII, he couldn't have made the "run the plays or sit" statement, because at that time, RGIII couldn't run the read option ---- but this may be bringing up a touchy subject between the two of us as I believe you contend RGIII was 100% healthy in 2013. I disagree with that. I believe he wasn't physically able to run those plays because he was playing at a lower % level. That honestly makes it worse on MS. I fault MS for his dealings post 2012; but I still maintain the onus of the downfall goes in the Danny boy/RGIII camp.