The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Devil's Advocate:

People are pretty optimistic about Cousins wanting to be here next year. How do we know Cousins doesn't want to put the Redskins behind him and go to a more established team? If someone like Denver is willing to pay him, then what's making him stay? Being stuck behind an under-performing RG3 for years due to favoritism may have left a very bad taste in his mouth, and rightly so.

Hooligan wrote:Devil's Advocate:

People are pretty optimistic about Cousins wanting to be here next year. How do we know Cousins doesn't want to put the Redskins behind him and go to a more established team? If someone like Denver is willing to pay him, then what's making him stay? Being stuck behind an under-performing RG3 for years due to favoritism may have left a very bad taste in his mouth, and rightly so.

Cousins cannot go anywhere if the FO wants him to play here

This thread is beginning to make me want to stab my eyes out with a fork. There are only so many ways to say the same thing.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:This thread is beginning to make me want to stab my eyes out with a fork. There are only so many ways to say the same thing.

This one looks like it would hurt...

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:This thread is beginning to make me want to stab my eyes out with a fork. There are only so many ways to say the same thing.

This is nothing. I see the "should the skins re-sign Cousins" thread is almost 30 pages long.

riggofan wrote:This is nothing. I see the "should the skins re-sign Cousins" thread is almost 30 pages long.

- the March 9th date is somewhat of a 'limiting factor' here ...

OK - one more thing .... I hear that JLC is saying that the Cousins camp holds the upper hand in negotiations ....

the Redskins are going to have Cousins as their QB in 2016 - either with the tag or a fair deal is worked out = FO WIN

If Cousins shows he's for real - he might even get more but not enough to hurt the franchise because that is not in his best interest = FO WIN

If Cousins does not show he's an elite QB they have signed him to a fair deal and they still have a good QB = FO WIN

Its not just JLC writing that. John Keim, Tandler, etc; have all been saying the same thing. Kirk Cousins does have the upper hand.

I understand what you're trying to say, but I doubt that the FO really wants to pay him the franchise tag amount for a year. That's not a "win" for a number of reasons that have been written about ad nauseum already.

http://www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/kirk ... tag-021816

"Having Cousins play on a tag would be uncharted territory for Washington and it would also make the salary-cap hit tougher to handle as well, with all of the money hitting in one year instead of spreading out the amount into the future.

It's a delicate negotiation, and it might very well take all the way until the next deadline in July to sign a franchise player to a long-term deal. But in a league where the franchise tag often limits a player's ability to earn full market value, Cousins is one of the players who stands to benefit from it.

Don't expect him to give up that leverage any time soon."

I think that Cousins will help make this deal happen sooner rather than later - however ... If the FO wants him here and he does not go for a reasonable deal they will have to tag him - IF he has a great year, he gets paid accordingly but if 2016 is not a big step forward, he's not getting a lot of money - I doubt that he's going to want to play for a deal that restricts the franchise financially - that's not good for anyone

Cousins has "the upper hand" if this were all about the money - this is not all about the money - he's going to get a lot of money and he does not want the franchise strapped financially because of it - he's not that type of guy

Cousins knows that this is a good FO and that they will not sign a contract that hurts the franchise financially

I'm confident that Cousins is better man than the media thinks and this FO will not hurt the franchise by signing players to silly contacts




it's all good and especially looking at it from a distance

The mistake that many are making is that they do not understand who is making the decisions here now

this FO will not make the mistake of overpaying for anyone - that is what we used to do here - NO MORE

AND

they are selling Cousins short - he's going to get a great deal because he earned it - he will not want a deal that hurts the FO financially

riggofan wrote:

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:This thread is beginning to make me want to stab my eyes out with a fork. There are only so many ways to say the same thing.

This is nothing. I see the "should the skins re-sign Cousins" thread is almost 30 pages long.

Just so we're clear, the answer to that thread, 30+ pages later, is still "Yes."

The answer to this one is "Yes, we project Kirk Cousins will be with the Redskins."

Cousins has earned a good contract and IMO both he and the Redskins will find a way to get one in place - they both want this

we will not see this happening here ... http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/eye-on-foo ... s-contract

this FO knows how to get this done in a way that makes it good for both Cousins and the Redskins

I can't imagine this not working out. The Skins are sold on him and Kirk is a very grounded young man. Maybe they'll tag him while they continue to discussions but unless they are trying to significantly low ball him relative to other top 10 QBs I think the two sides will get it done.

OldSchool wrote:I can't imagine this not working out. The Skins are sold on him and Kirk is a very grounded young man. Maybe they'll tag him while they continue to discussions but unless they are trying to significantly low ball him relative to other top 10 QBs I think the two sides will get it done.

Cousin's team has said that money is not the issue... I have no reason to doubt that... The odds, at this point, still suggest a tag, which does not preclude continuing to work on a contract. As you note, Cousins is well grounded... he won't get stupid, and no matter how this plays out, he will work his tail off to be the best he can.

^^ - that's it in a nutshell - thanks 'trey

suggesting that this FO might be lowballing a player that they want is just stupid - both sides know that the other side wants a deal

there seems to be a perception that if a deal does not get done and we have to franchise him, the Redskins are financially doomed ...

Both sides want to get a deal done and IMO both sides will figure out how to get one done

Countertrey wrote:Cousin's team has said that money is not the issue... I have no reason to doubt that... The odds, at this point, still suggest a tag, which does not preclude continuing to work on a contract. As you note, Cousins is well grounded... he won't get stupid, and no matter how this plays out, he will work his tail off to be the best he can.

I call bull on the "money is not the issue" claim. Of course money is the issue. They aren't haggling over changing the team name or uniform colors or why RGIII is still on the roster.

It's entirely about guaranteed money. Cousins' agent wants as much of it as he can get up front. The franchise tag amount is as much as he can get.

Furthermore, there's a zero percent chance the Redskins let Cousins hit free agency. ZERO. And everyone knows it.

Ergo, while it's a novel concept to think that the Redskins can franchise tag Cousins and then work out a long-term extension favorable to the team in terms of salary cap, Cousins has absolutely no reason to do so. None. Zero.

If he gets $19.5MM now and blows his back out five minutes into the season opener he's still set for life. If he takes less than that he's risking never seeing it.

The team has absolutely no leverage here. They are going to pay Cousins whatever he wants.

Having said that, even if Cousins takes less than the franchise tag amount, he made all of $660k last season. It's still about the money. This may be the only big payday Cousins sees in his career. He's 27, not 22. He'll be 28 before the season starts.

It's not about his being a good guy or a team player. It's about getting his, and that's exactly what it should be about. It's a job like any other. No one goes to their employer and says, "I really appreciate this 20% raise you gave me but I only need about half of it so you can have the rest back."

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:I call bull on the "money is not the issue" claim. Of course money is the issue. They aren't haggling over changing the team name or uniform colors or why RGIII is still on the roster.

I had the same reaction to that. Not about the money. Yeah right. Why would anybody even bother to put out such a stupid statement? It would actually be worse IMO if it was about anything BUT the money.

In slightly related news since I don't want to start a new post, I see Bruce Allen saying today what we've known for months:

Robert Griffin III's time with the Washington Redskins is just about up.

If there were any questions (there weren't) about whether the team would change gears and keep RGIII, president Bruce Allen shut them down Tuesday during an interview with XEPRS-AM in San Diego.

"Well, no. I see Robert getting an opportunity with another team," Allen said when asked if RGIII would be back. "We've heard from some teams that are interested. I think he's going to have a choice of a couple teams that will let him excel in the future."

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap300000 ... h-him-well

In the meantime, Washington is trying to hammer out a deal with starter Kirk Cousins before being forced to franchise tag the quarterback. The deadline for the tag is next Tuesday.

"Kirk said he wants to be a Redskin and we want him to be a Redskin, so these things usually work themselves out about this time or in the next few weeks, so we're pretty confident with that," Allen said.

I agree that Cousins is not hitting the free agent market but I also think that a deal gets worked out here that pays Cousins a great salary


I'm sure that most will agree that this FO knows what it's doing and will find a way to make this work and not strap the franchise financially

Cousins will also help make this happen is all I'm saying

SkinsJock wrote:I agree that Cousins is not hitting the free agent market but I also think that a deal gets worked out here that pays Cousins a great salary


I'm sure that most will agree that this FO knows what it's doing and will find a way to make this work and not strap the franchise financially

Cousins will also help make this happen is all I'm saying

Yeah I think we're all clear on that now.

I liked Bruce's comment that "these things usually work themselves out about this time or in the next few weeks". Totally agree with you that its going to get done and everything. I think a lot of fans just want to see the whole QB thing settled and done and let's move on to free agency and the draft. Something new to talk about!

Draft is only like 65 days away btw. The only thing I enjoy more than the start of the NFL season.

I'm sure it's a huge thing down in that area - this will get done, it's too important for everyone

I'm also looking forward to seeing what these guys do to help this franchise this year - few if any free agents IMO

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Cousin's team has said that money is not the issue... I have no reason to doubt that... The odds, at this point, still suggest a tag, which does not preclude continuing to work on a contract. As you note, Cousins is well grounded... he won't get stupid, and no matter how this plays out, he will work his tail off to be the best he can.

I call bull on the "money is not the issue" claim. Of course money is the issue. They aren't haggling over changing the team name or uniform colors or why RGIII is still on the roster.

It's entirely about guaranteed money. Cousins' agent wants as much of it as he can get up front. The franchise tag amount is as much as he can get.

Furthermore, there's a zero percent chance the Redskins let Cousins hit free agency. ZERO. And everyone knows it.

Ergo, while it's a novel concept to think that the Redskins can franchise tag Cousins and then work out a long-term extension favorable to the team in terms of salary cap, Cousins has absolutely no reason to do so. None. Zero.

If he gets $19.5MM now and blows his back out five minutes into the season opener he's still set for life. If he takes less than that he's risking never seeing it.

The team has absolutely no leverage here. They are going to pay Cousins whatever he wants.

Having said that, even if Cousins takes less than the franchise tag amount, he made all of $660k last season. It's still about the money. This may be the only big payday Cousins sees in his career. He's 27, not 22. He'll be 28 before the season starts.

It's not about his being a good guy or a team player. It's about getting his, and that's exactly what it should be about. It's a job like any other. No one goes to their employer and says, "I really appreciate this 20% raise you gave me but I only need about half of it so you can have the rest back."

I think they have an agreement about the total money... it is about how it is distributed, and about the guarantee... so... you are right about the money... and you are wrong. It's about how much in the signing bonus vs salary. Post TAG contracts happen every year... there is no reason not to expect one here. Cousins has a solid head, a no nonsense agent and is negotiating with skilled management who want him here. Cousins also knows that his skill is not such that he will survive long without improved talent around him... wins = endorsements... he knows that.

reasoning and facts ... always a good thing

Countertrey wrote:I think they have an agreement about the total money... it is about how it is distributed, and about the guarantee... so... you are right about the money... and you are wrong. It's about how much in the signing bonus vs salary. Post TAG contracts happen every year... there is no reason not to expect one here. Cousins has a solid head, a no nonsense agent and is negotiating with skilled management who want him here. Cousins also knows that his skill is not such that he will survive long without improved talent around him... wins = endorsements... he knows that.

I almost think Cousins wants to know what he's worth on the open market, even if it's less than the franchise tag. Obviously, it's less than the franchise tag but how much less? He's not elite but he's better than the players making $16MM a year. $18MM actually sounds about right, especially with the cap going up. $19.5MM isn't much of an overpayment on that to make him prove he's not a one year wonder. I guess I doubt the team saves much in the way of money even if they work out a long-term deal. I hate backloaded contracts, by the way. Pay now, not later. Paying later is how we got into the mess we've been in for much of the last fifteen years. McCloughan and McCartney are good friends from way back but I'm not sure that matters here.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

Countertrey wrote:I think they have an agreement about the total money... it is about how it is distributed, and about the guarantee... so... you are right about the money... and you are wrong. It's about how much in the signing bonus vs salary. Post TAG contracts happen every year... there is no reason not to expect one here. Cousins has a solid head, a no nonsense agent and is negotiating with skilled management who want him here. Cousins also knows that his skill is not such that he will survive long without improved talent around him... wins = endorsements... he knows that.

I almost think Cousins wants to know what he's worth on the open market, even if it's less than the franchise tag. Obviously, it's less than the franchise tag but how much less? He's not elite but he's better than the players making $16MM a year. $18MM actually sounds about right, especially with the cap going up. $19.5MM isn't much of an overpayment on that to make him prove he's not a one year wonder. I guess I doubt the team saves much in the way of money even if they work out a long-term deal. I hate backloaded contracts, by the way. Pay now, not later. Paying later is how we got into the mess we've been in for much of the last fifteen years. McCloughan and McCartney are good friends from way back but I'm not sure that matters here.

I don't like them either... but, as long as the backloaded contract is reserved for the true exception, rather than the rule, it should not be much of a problem... Regarding Cousins wanting to test his value in the market? It's moot. He will not get the chance. He is either tagged... or he signs a contract with DC. And, the reality is, the only way the Redskins "save" any money here, is to release Cousins... Not a chance in Hades...

SkinsJock wrote:=D> reasoning and facts ... always a good thing

Discussions with give and take are much better...