The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:These were Tom Brady's stats against the 32d ranking passing defense in the league btw.

26/42 for 334 yards. 2 TDs and 1 INT.

OK let's hash that out - are you prepared to say that if we'd been playing with Tom Brady at QB today, he would not have had better stats than Cousins ... don't give me any BS about what Tom did against the Giants, that is totally not relevant - just try and make the case that Tom Brady today, would not have had a better day than Cousins

I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying Tom Brady played the same defense that Kirk Cousins just played. Although Cousins played them coming off a bye week and healthier. According to you, they're the 32d ranked pass defense so presumably Tom Brady should have put up about 500 yards and no INTs. Because he's a good QB and Cousins is just a backup.

SkinsJock wrote:ckRGiii is exactly right - this hopeless O line is giving Kirk an incredible amount of time - I know we're going to work on the defense but when we get some decent O line guys in here, our offense is going to be awesome

I don't know why you continue to post such garbage. Our offensive line for the foreseeable future is HERE NOW. The only thing that *might* change is a new center.

It was a nice, deep play. But as we can see, Djax again had to slow down and adjust to the ball.

Yes, Cousins can throw deep and let's give Djax props for always seeing the ball and adjusting nicely to it.

I have no idea what point half of the folks in this thread are trying to make... I'm hoping that mine will be very clear...

Kirk Cousins > Trent Dilfer.
Trent Dilfer won a Super Bowl. Kirk Cousins is as good as, or better than, many quarterbacks whom have won playoff games. Frankly, I believe he is probably in the talent ballpark with Thiesman... Rypien... and Williams, all of whom had journeyman career stats.

DEHog wrote:Hilarious to see people still bashing Kirk, for what I’m guessing is so they can be right??

I see one post that might possibly be construed as "bashing" (the one you cited with the golf comparison). The others are more or less trying to bring some reality back into the conversation.

Deadskins wrote:

DEHog wrote:Hilarious to see people still bashing Kirk, for what I’m guessing is so they can be right??

I see one post that might possibly be construed as "bashing" (the one you cited with the golf comparison). The others are more or less trying to bring some reality back into the conversation.

What reality...enlighten me...

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote:20/29 for 302 yards. 1 passing and 1 rushing TD. No INTs. meh. He was OK.

OK he was better than OK but he certainly was not what you'd call very good - that pass defense is horrible ..

let's not lose sight of the FACT that we're winning the NFC East and it's not because of Cousins, it's because of a lot of other people busting their butt and picking up the slack here - the coaching and QB play could have been a lot better - it was OK ... not very good

Cousins is a really good back up NFL QB and we are VERY lucky to have him but we'll be a lot better when we have a good starting QB

I can wait

This is sounding more and more like self parody now.

hitmandm wrote:I drive the ball 300 yds once or twice a season but that doesn't mean I can do it all the time. Cousins had a good throw. He had to run 4 yards to get enough umph to throw it 45 yds but he did it. He threw it like a hail mary. There was probably a 20 mph wind gust at his back too. If I want to see the real Kirk Cosuins Ill watch the Jets game, the Pats game, the Carolina game.

These are usually good wins. But in this case it increases the odds we have a very bad coach and a BU QB who cant suck for more than one game in a row for another year. We win this game but it dooms us to mediocrity for years longer if DS isn't smart and doesn't get rid of Gruden.

And how did Eli Manning throw for 3 picks and we win by less than a TD if we were any good?

I'll say this. I drive the ball 300 every time I tee it up with a driver and am trying to hit it straight (opposed to a fade, draw, etc. which can lower distance by 10-15 yards depending) and out there. HOWEVER, that doesn't make me a pro --- not even remotely (in the same universe) close. I don't even want to compare my putting/chipping to anyone that is considered a pro as it would be an insult to them and their peers. I am just happy having a single digit handicap. Applying to the NFL, arm strength alone isn't what makes a QB great.

Also, LITERALLY everything you described regarding Cousins' deep pass was WRONG. He took a half step into the throw (like an QB in the NFL would do), there was no wind, and the pass went 58 yards in the air. If you are going to whine like child that your team won, at least be accurate.

As far as why was the game so close:
WAS RUSHING: 37 carries, 105 yards, 2.8 ypc. Blocked FG made it even a game at the end.

I would recommend you do some research on how a front office operates. In a normal, productive, and successful front office --- the owner doesn't fire the HC, that is the GM's job. If Danny boy is the one firing anyone the GM has authority over, then we have FAR FAR FAR bigger problems than Gruden as our HC.

But at the end of the day, you have your personal agenda....... and your jaded eyes can't see threw (pun intended) it..... after all, you thought Cousins took 4 STEPS into a 45 yard pass.

DEHog wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DEHog wrote:Hilarious to see people still bashing Kirk, for what I’m guessing is so they can be right??

I see one post that might possibly be construed as "bashing" (the one you cited with the golf comparison). The others are more or less trying to bring some reality back into the conversation.

What reality...enlighten me...

For my part, it was that it was one pass on the season. Hardly a huge sample size to come on here and try and throw it in the face of folks saying he doesn't throw a good deep ball. I'm not one of those saying he has a noodle arm, but it's certainly not as strong as some other NFL QBs. It doesn't really have to be, either. Accuracy is much more important than strength. Kirk's arm is strong enough, when his mechanics are good.

Deadskins wrote:

DEHog wrote:

Deadskins wrote:I see one post that might possibly be construed as "bashing" (the one you cited with the golf comparison). The others are more or less trying to bring some reality back into the conversation.

What reality...enlighten me...

For my part, it was that it was one pass on the season. Hardly a huge sample size to come on here and try and throw it in the face of folks saying he doesn't throw a good deep ball. I'm not one of those saying he has a noodle arm, but it's certainly not as strong as some other NFL QBs. It doesn't really have to be, either. Accuracy is much more important than strength. Kirk's arm is strong enough, when his mechanics are good.

Does last year count? Because he threw (what I thought was his best long ball) one against Philly last year...The league if full of guys with great arms who can't play the positon.

I agree. Jeff George had one of the strongest arms ever, but was a crappy QB. Virgil Carter had a relatively weak arm, which is why Bill Walsh (then in Cincinnati) designed his offense to throw shorter, timing routes that emphasized running after the catch. Like I said, accuracy is much more important than strength.

I still don't see the big deal here - Kirk Cousins is our QB and we're leading the NFC East in December ...

there are some here that have very different ideas on how good Kirk Cousins is as an NFL QB - IMO he's good & he's here - end of story

he's not very good and he's possibly not here in 2016, but, that doesn't matter - at this time, he's a Redskin


if you think he had a great day yesterday, good luck to you - I thought he played well

SkinsJock wrote:Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB but he cannot carry Williams or Rypien's jock straps - there's no comparison, they are starting NFL QBs that won NFL Super Bowls

Not sure how well you know your history.....

Doug Williams:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm

Mark Rypien:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm

It pains me to post this as Rypien is one of my all time favorite skins and is a really good person.

Rypien was a starter in 4 of his 11 NFL seasons. Williams was a starter in 3 of his 9 NFL seasons. I wouldn't exactly call either of them "starting NFL QBs".....

Now if you meant to say that Cousins wasn't better than 1991 Rypien and 3-game-playoff-early-1988 Williams, then I'd fully agree (just like I'd agree 2012 RGIII is better than 2015 Cousins) --- but I highly doubt that is what you are saying. From a statistical perspective, Cousins is better than Williams, without question. Rypien is closer, but Cousins still edges him out. Cousins is on pace for 4,000 passing yards, 24 TDs, 14 INTs, 26 sacks, 60+ QBR --- with FAR (to the point of not even comparing position by position) less around him. Cousins' 2015 numbers are better than any of Rypien's seasons other than 1991. So saying there is no comparison is ridiculous -- and that is being nice .

I suggest you open your eyes. Based on your history of inaccuracies, I don't expect you to "eat crow", but at least try not to sound crazy.

SkinsJock wrote:Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB but he cannot carry Williams or Rypien's jock straps - there's no comparison, they are starting NFL QBs that won NFL Super Bowls

By your own logic Eli Manning is a better quarterback than any quarterback who won one Super bowl or less.

Mark, Good points! Statistically Kirk is Starting QB and IMO if he had the team either Rypien or Williams had, the Redskins could win another SB

SkinsJock wrote:he's not very good and he's possibly not here in 2016, but, that doesn't matter - at this time, he's a Redskin

If he's not here in 2016, how could this be a good thing?

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB but he cannot carry Williams or Rypien's jock straps - there's no comparison, they are starting NFL QBs that won NFL Super Bowls

Not sure how well you know your history.....

Doug Williams:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm

Mark Rypien:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm

It pains me to post this as Rypien is one of my all time favorite skins and is a really good person.

Rypien was a starter in 4 of his 11 NFL seasons. Williams was a starter in 3 of his 9 NFL seasons. I wouldn't exactly call either of them "starting NFL QBs".....

Now if you meant to say that Cousins wasn't better than 1991 Rypien and 3-game-playoff-early-1988 Williams, then I'd fully agree (just like I'd agree 2012 RGIII is better than 2015 Cousins) --- but I highly doubt that is what you are saying. From a statistical perspective, Cousins is better than Williams, without question. Rypien is closer, but Cousins still edges him out. Cousins is on pace for 4,000 passing yards, 24 TDs, 14 INTs, 26 sacks, 60+ QBR --- with FAR (to the point of not even comparing position by position) less around him. Cousins' 2015 numbers are better than any of Rypien's seasons other than 1991. So saying there is no comparison is ridiculous -- and that is being nice .

I suggest you open your eyes. Based on your history of inaccuracies, I don't expect you to "eat crow", but at least try not to sound crazy.

Concur... as this is the same point, that I made on page 2... All that is needed in a QB is competence (which Cousins, without question, is)... IF there is competence surrounding him. There is the problem. How many perfect to catchable balls were dropped in the NE game? What happens in the Panther game if Leribus gets his head out of his rear? In either case, a few more conversions... a little more rest for the D. A shot at a different outcome.

Cousins has also displayed flashes of the ability to put the team on his shoulders, and drag it to the finish line... which is a bonus.

I'll reserve the right to look at Kirk Cousins record at the end of his career when comparing him to QBs like Williams and Rypien - like someone here recently pointed out, "stats don't always give you the full picture ..."

Kirk has improved but I'm not that sure that he's going to prove to be as good a QB as some here think ... we shall see

as far as next season is concerned, if Cousins is not here it's a good thing thing in that Scot and the FO did not 'overpay' him

I think that these guys have a better idea of which players they want and which players they really need and that's OK by me ...

SkinsJock wrote:I'll reserve the right to look at Kirk Cousins record at the end of his career when comparing him to QBs like Williams and Rypien -

So basically you will come out and say that Cousins as a QB can't carry Rypien/Williams' jock to the point it isn't even a comparison --- and now, after being provided ample evidence to the contrary, you are back-peddling and saying that, after being proven incorrect, that you will instead reserve the right to wait until Cousins has finished his career before performing the proper comparison......

So to get this straight --- you initially compared Cousins to Rypien/Williams on pg. 1 of this thread, but NOW (after getting educated) you are saying that in order to compare Cousins to Rypien/Williams you need to see Cousins' record at the end of his career? So then why did you initially compare them if you knew you didn't have the requisite information to do so in the first place???????

But what about the Rypien/Williams being "starting NFL QBs" comment you made? Do you also need to see Cousins' record to determine that.......

Unless Cousins/Rypien/Williams are all playing with the same players, it would tough to compare their records, don't you agree? Now, Based on stats it seems Cousins is a capable starting QB.

I don't consider Cousins performance worthy enough to say that he's as good a QB as Rypien or Williams

I'm not sure that Cousins is over his tendency to turn the ball over but that is improving - hopefully he can keep it up for the next 5 games

I'm just not that enamored with the way he plays - I still think he's a very good back-up QB that's getting a great opportunity here and I hope he stays because I cannot see anyone else I'd rather have but I'm looking forward to Scot eventually bringing in a QB - I'm also not convinced that Cousins is going to take a very fair offer from Scot and the FO when it is given to him and I don't want Scot to overpay Kirk Cousins

I like Kirk Cousins but I'm not going to go gaga over him like some here - he's good, he's not great ...

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Kirk Cousins is a good NFL QB but he cannot carry Williams or Rypien's jock straps - there's no comparison, they are starting NFL QBs that won NFL Super Bowls

Not sure how well you know your history.....

Doug Williams:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/W/WillDo01.htm

Mark Rypien:
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RypiMa00.htm

It pains me to post this as Rypien is one of my all time favorite skins and is a really good person.

Rypien was a starter in 4 of his 11 NFL seasons. Williams was a starter in 3 of his 9 NFL seasons. I wouldn't exactly call either of them "starting NFL QBs".....

Now if you meant to say that Cousins wasn't better than 1991 Rypien and 3-game-playoff-early-1988 Williams, then I'd fully agree (just like I'd agree 2012 RGIII is better than 2015 Cousins) --- but I highly doubt that is what you are saying. From a statistical perspective, Cousins is better than Williams, without question. Rypien is closer, but Cousins still edges him out. Cousins is on pace for 4,000 passing yards, 24 TDs, 14 INTs, 26 sacks, 60+ QBR --- with FAR (to the point of not even comparing position by position) less around him. Cousins' 2015 numbers are better than any of Rypien's seasons other than 1991. So saying there is no comparison is ridiculous -- and that is being nice .

I suggest you open your eyes. Based on your history of inaccuracies, I don't expect you to "eat crow", but at least try not to sound crazy.

So just to be transparent here, it's not fair to compare passing stats from even 1991 to nowadays. The rules changes and the game changes so favor passing offenses now it's almost a different game.

^^ agreed - not that it makes a difference when you're a blind follower ...

Kirk Cousins is doing his job well - I'm just not ready to jump on the "he's a really good QB" bandwagon just yet

Hey Kirk! ... just sign the damn contract already

Cousins has certainly improved where turnovers are concerned. But I'm not sure I'm sold on him yet. When he starts winning road games for us, then I think I lean in favor of signing him and making him our starting QB for the long run. All that said, I just want him to win the final five games to win the division and get to the playoffs. I'll worry about 2016 when 2016 gets here.