The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm genuinely curious as to what happens if the Skins win on Sunday against the Eagles. I have a gut feeling that the bipolar fanbase will go right back to saying they'll win the division, and then after a loss will go right back to the Cousins bashing.

We're not winning the division based upon our play thus far but we may not lose every divisional game this season which would be nice for a change. Hell, we may even split those games this season if we continue to improve. The other teams in the division certainly aren't impressing anyone but they are scoring more points than we are, one of them with a backup quarterback.

markshark84 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:
that is not that big a deal - we are not just a good QB away from being a good team

and who knows what can happen - Brady was not considered very good either

IMHO --- we actually are 1 good QB away from having a good offense.....

We have 2 great RBs. Jones has a fumbling issue, but hopefully he will learn to run the ball in a way that protects it. We have an adequate OL and great WRs once Jackson returns. Reed is a great TE and hopefully will stay healthy. QB is by far our largest issue.

You give us a QB that can utilize this talent and it will keep our DEF off the field and fresh when they play. Now our DEF was exposed last Thursday, so we'll see how they respond.... Regardless, IMHO, we are 1 good QB away from being a playoff team ---

I absolutely agree with this... arm strength on 2, maybe 3, passes changes the outcome of the Giants game.

I do believe that we need two improvements on D to make it super solid... a competent pass rusher on the weak side, and 1 corner who can come close to locking down a side... I fully expect both to be addressed next year. QB not so much.

I keep seeing comments about Cousins arm strength?? IMO I don't think his performance against the Giants was an issue with arm strength as much as it was accuracy with live bullets flying. Remember the long ball he threw to Jackson last year against the Eagles!! He has the arm to make the throw he missed last week; I just thought he was trying harder to not thrown INT’s than he was just slinging it!!

we could win the game this week but if we do Cousins will not have had 40 or more pass attempts

this kid is OK - he just needs everybody else around him to have good games because we're not winning games due to his throwing the ball more than 40 times

SkinsJock wrote:we could win the game this week but if we do Cousins will not have had 40 or more pass attempts

this kid is OK - he just needs everybody else around him to have good games because we're not winning games due to his throwing the ball more than 40 times

Nonsense. Cousins threw 48 times in the game last year vs. the Eagles. 427 yards 3 TDs and only one pick. We lost the game by 3 points because our defense was completely inept, couldn't get Nick Foles off the field and special teams gave up a TD return as usual. Had nothing to do with how many times Cousins threw the ball.

riggofan wrote:Nonsense. Cousins threw 48 times in the game last year vs. the Eagles. 427 yards 3 TDs and only one pick. We lost the game by 3 points because our defense was completely inept, couldn't get Nick Foles off the field and special teams gave up a TD return as usual. Had nothing to do with how many times Cousins threw the ball.

Stop confusing the issue with facts.

IF Cousins throws the ball more than 40 times - we're losing the game - he's not that good - we shall see

SkinsJock wrote:IF Cousins throws the ball more than 40 times - we're losing the game - he's not that good - we shall see

If Cousins is throwing the ball more than 40 times that means our run game isn't very effective, no?

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF Cousins throws the ball more than 40 times - we're losing the game - he's not that good - we shall see

If Cousins is throwing the ball more than 40 times that means our run game isn't very effective, no?

Its a weird thing about playing quarterback in the NFL. Occasionally you have to throw the ball more than you want in order to win the game.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:Nonsense. Cousins threw 48 times in the game last year vs. the Eagles. 427 yards 3 TDs and only one pick. We lost the game by 3 points because our defense was completely inept, couldn't get Nick Foles off the field and special teams gave up a TD return as usual. Had nothing to do with how many times Cousins threw the ball.

Stop confusing the issue with facts.

You're right. If only Cousins had thrown the ball 9 fewer times that game, we probably would have won.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:IF Cousins throws the ball more than 40 times - we're losing the game - he's not that good - we shall see

If Cousins is throwing the ball more than 40 times that means our run game isn't very effective, no?

Not necessarily. It could mean the defense has given up a lot of points and the rushing game isn't scoring fast enough to catch up.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:
Not necessarily. It could mean the defense has given up a lot of points and the rushing game isn't scoring fast enough to catch up.

I think some posters tend to over simplify. Simply rushing the ball more will not lead to more wins or losses, on its own --- regardless of who is QB. There are so many variables that go into whether a team should run or pass ---- and honestly, I don't have the time or desire to go into these. I could literally write a 50 page post on this area alone --- seriously.

Since I don't have the desire, I will instead give you a couple webpages that try to look into the factors. I don't necessarily agree with everything that is said, but it gets to the notion that simplying investing in the run game will get you wins or vice versa. The first link I think is the best at accomplishing this.

http://blog.minitab.com/blog/the-statistics-game/correlation-is-not-causation-why-running-the-football-doesnt-cause-you-to-win-games-in-the-nfl

https://thepowerrank.com/2014/01/10/which-nfl-teams-make-and-win-in-the-playoffs/

At the end of the day, it is about efficiency. What makes football complicated is that every single variable affects the other.

OK - let's see how it goes then ... this is kind of fun ...

I don't think the kid can carry an offense - if they're making him throw over 40 times behind a line that cannot pass block very well and with a QB that does not handle pressure very well ... good luck to him

Cousins stays as the QB unless he turns the ball over a lot and if he has to throw a lot behind this line, that will happen and that will not be good

not really a big deal to me ... I'll watch and learn

SkinsJock wrote:I'd agree that having a good QB would be great but the reality is we have the time to get a QB because we have so many areas we need to address - O line; D line and defensive secondary come to mind - having a great QB in 2016 is not the answer - having a great QB in 2017 or beyond is the reality of having the time to add the depth we need

Then, shouldn't we get him in 2016, so come 2017 he has a season under his belt?

SkinsJock wrote:I don't think the kid can carry an offense - if they're making him throw over 40 times behind a line that cannot pass block very well and with a QB that does not handle pressure very well ... good luck to him

Seriously...

What are the alternatives?

McCoy and Griffin both hold the ball much longer than Cousins (Griffin obviously the worst offender of the 3). Griffin is not a fit for this offense, and there is a very slim chance he still has the speed he had in 2012. But he's still an injury waiting to happen. And McCoy, while he's also had injury issues in the past, is pure suckage. See vs. Rams last year. So who would you put in if Cousins continues to struggle?

if Cousins gets hurt or can't play they should put in McCoy - but if McCoy is not ready to play this Sunday, there are some here that are advocating bringing in another QB instead of Griffin - I don't think they're going to do that

but ... what do I know

IMO they should hold onto Griffin but I hope they don't play him until he shows that he can play well - whether that is this season or next ...

I'm not certain that will happen but I think that some here (other than Snyder) are not convinced yet that he's a bust ...


at the end of the day, I just want what's best for the franchise and I'm not sure that any of these 3 are but I'm not as convinced as some that Griffin is not a good NFL QB - I guess I'm just not that knowledgeable, but then again, why is he still here?

if Jay and Scot do not want him here and are being forced to keep him on the roster, then it really doesn't matter, does it?

But, if Scot and/or Jay do want him here, then a lot of very knowledgeable fans are going to be very upset - that's kind of fun too

Deadskins wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'd agree that having a good QB would be great but the reality is we have the time to get a QB because we have so many areas we need to address - O line; D line and defensive secondary come to mind - having a great QB in 2016 is not the answer - having a great QB in 2017 or beyond is the reality of having the time to add the depth we need

Then, shouldn't we get him in 2016, so come 2017 he has a season under his belt?

I'd get a QB as soon as possible but I'd give him a lot of time to get ready - but that's just me

If we bring in a future great and find out that these 3 are no good we're going to need someone else to play until the future great and the O line are ready

If these 3 QBs play badly this season, we're most likely, also looking at a new HC - that's another "wait until next season" deal

SkinsJock wrote:If these 3 QBs play badly this season, we're most likely, also looking at a new HC - that's another "wait until next season" deal

That would be equally stupid seeing as how none of the quarterbacks currently on the roster are Jay Gruden's or Scot McCloughan's personal picks. Gruden needs to be given an opportunity to succeed or fail with his own quarterback, not ones handed down from a previous regime, especially from a Shanahan regime. Shanahan doesn't know a damn thing about quarterbacks.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:[That would be equally stupid seeing as how none of the quarterbacks currently on the roster are Jay Gruden's or Scot McCloughan's personal picks. Gruden needs to be given an opportunity to succeed or fail with his own quarterback, not ones handed down from a previous regime, especially from a Shanahan regime. Shanahan doesn't know a damn thing about quarterbacks.

In fairness, wasn't one of the (if not the main) reasons Gruden was given this job was to develop RG??

DEHog wrote:In fairness, wasn't one of the (if not the main) reasons Gruden was given this job was to develop RG??

I don't know. Shanahan knew RGIII couldn't be developed into a quarterback. Why would Gruden think he's smarter than Shanahan?

I hear you B&GF but this is now Scot's franchise to manage and while I'm hopeful that Jay Gruden will do well enough without much to work with to keep the job, Scot also may want to start over - despite what some here think this roster still needs time to develop and Scot may be looking further down the road

Jay Gruden (just like Kirk Cousins) should be given as much time as possible to show what they've got - why not give him another season

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

DEHog wrote:In fairness, wasn't one of the (if not the main) reasons Gruden was given this job was to develop RG??

I don't know. Shanahan knew RGIII couldn't be developed into a quarterback. Why would Gruden think he's smarter than Shanahan?

that really does not matter to Bruce Allen or Dan Snyder - if that's the case and Griffin proves to be the bust that many here think AND Scot does not really, really want Jay Gruden as a HC - He's gone and it's back to the drawing board ...

that is the sort of stupid stuff that Dan Snyder loves - a new HC for the Redskins

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

DEHog wrote:In fairness, wasn't one of the (if not the main) reasons Gruden was given this job was to develop RG??

I don't know. Shanahan knew RGIII couldn't be developed into a quarterback. Why would Gruden think he's smarter than Shanahan?

Doesn't matter he accepted the position knowing full well that job 1 was Griffin. That's why I give Snyder a pass on this one. Don't tell me you can develop him than 6 months into it say I'm done with him. He should be held accountable IMO.