Rift Between Cousins/Griffin

[DEHog]

Griffin is not still on this roster solely because he throws a good deep ball. He's trade bait. That's it.

we disagree on this - Griffin is here because he can play QB - if the guys here knew that he could not play QB, like you and some others here think, he would not be here because he would not be worth anything ...


I noticed Griffin on the sidelines during the game - there certainly did not seem to be any animosity that I could see - just the opposite

I think this kid can play QB a lot better than we've seen the past 2 years - maybe that's not happening here and that's fine with me

Griffin may not be on this roster next season - there will be many others who are not here who will most likely go on and play and coach well elsewhere as well

So he won't be on the team next year? What will change between now and then...is he going to foget how to play....according to you he's here because he can play the position??

[riggofan]

Griffin is not still on this roster solely because he throws a good deep ball. He's trade bait. That's it.

I think its more about what he did in 2012 than just that he throws a good deep ball. Its not like he's just all potential. People have seen what he can do. The gamble is whether or not he a team believes he can ever do that again.

Trade bait seems like the most likely thing to me. Might be some hedging going on, too. Snyder not buying in to Gruden/Cousinsand not willing to go all in on those guys yet.

[DEHog]

Griffin is not still on this roster solely because he throws a good deep ball. He's trade bait. That's it.

I think its more about what he did in 2012 than just that he throws a good deep ball. Its not like he's just all potential. People have seen what he can do. The gamble is whether or not he a team believes he can ever do that again.

Trade bait seems like the most likely thing to me. Might be some hedging going on, too. Snyder not buying in to Gruden/Cousinsand not willing to go all in on those guys yet.

Yep...don't think for one second that RG will be here next season if Cousins turns out to be a servicable option. I understand keeping him for some potention trade value but when the deadline comes and no offers have been made he's gone.

[markshark84]

On a positive note, we might be able to trade Griffin for Andrew Luck straight up if Luck keeps playing like this.

Yeah..... We wish.

Luck has LITERALLY not one good player on offense. They actually look a lot like the redskins of old padding their roster with over the hill has beens. Gore and Johnson are NFL senior citizens. Watching the game yesterday, it is abundantly clear both Gore and Johnson are very different players than they were a couple years ago (probably why HOU released Johnson; and Gore "mutually" parted ways with SF). Hilton is good...... for a slot receiver; not a #1. They don't have even an average TE. Their OL is one of the worst in the NFL.

I am definetely in the camp that believes a QB should be the one making opportunities and not relying on his players, but there are limited exceptions to these rules. Luck's situation is one of them.

[riggofan]

Yep...don't think for one second that RG will be here next season if Cousins turns out to be a servicable option. I understand keeping him for some potention trade value but when the deadline comes and no offers have been made he's gone.

Had not thought about that. When is the trade deadline for the NFL?

Even at that point, it still may make sense to keep him on the roster for some time rather than let a division rival snap him up.

[riggofan]

Luck has LITERALLY not one good player on offense. They actually look a lot like the redskins of old padding their roster with over the hill has beens. Gore and Johnson are NFL senior citizens. Watching the game yesterday, it is abundantly clear both Gore and Johnson are very different players than they were a couple years ago (probably why HOU released Johnson; and Gore "mutually" parted ways with SF). Hilton is good...... for a slot receiver; not a #1. They don't have even an average TE. Their OL is one of the worst in the NFL.

Terrible draft for them this past year. Didn't they take like a small WR in the first round? Their OL and defense are horrible like you wrote.

Even so, Luck had a nightmare game last night. Three INTs and a fumble.

[DEHog]

Yep...don't think for one second that RG will be here next season if Cousins turns out to be a servicable option. I understand keeping him for some potention trade value but when the deadline comes and no offers have been made he's gone.

Had not thought about that. When is the trade deadline for the NFL?

Even at that point, it still may make sense to keep him on the roster for some time rather than let a division rival snap him up.

Wasn't speaking to the trade dead as much as I was to the new NFL year when they have to pay him.

[SkinsJock]

.. So he won't be on the team next year? What will change between now and then...is he going to foget how to play....according to you he's here because he can play the position??

amazing how people can twist things - I think Griffin is still here because he can play QB (maybe not here but somewhere) and someone here must think that too - the guys in charge here must think he's worth something or he would not still be here - is that not fair to assume?

I do not think that Griffin will be here next season ... but then again I don't think that Cousins or Gruden will be here next season either

[DEHog]

.. So he won't be on the team next year? What will change between now and then...is he going to foget how to play....according to you he's here because he can play the position??

amazing how people can twist things - I think Griffin is still here because he can play QB (maybe not here but somewhere) and someone here must think that too - the guys in charge here must think he's worth something or he would not still be here - is that not fair to assume?

I do not think that Griffin will be here next season ... but then again I don't think that Cousins or Gruden will be here next season either

What did I twist? No I don't think RG is here because he can play (in this sysytem), if that were the case I think he would be active week in and week out. I think he is here for a few other reasons but playing in this system is not one of them.

[OldSchool]

I don't think SM wants to have another Griffin talk with Snyder at this point which is why Griffin is still on the roster. The Skins aren't going to pay 16M for a 3rd string QB in 2016 when they could make do with a low draft choice that might actually have some aptitude to run a WCO. Griffin is going to be cut and able to shop himself around and try to hook up with a NFL team that will value his spread read option skill set.

[mastdark81]

On a positive note, we might be able to trade Griffin for Andrew Luck straight up if Luck keeps playing like this.

Yeah..... We wish.

Luck has LITERALLY not one good player on offense. They actually look a lot like the redskins of old padding their roster with over the hill has beens. Gore and Johnson are NFL senior citizens. Watching the game yesterday, it is abundantly clear both Gore and Johnson are very different players than they were a couple years ago (probably why HOU released Johnson; and Gore "mutually" parted ways with SF). Hilton is good...... for a slot receiver; not a #1. They don't have even an average TE. Their OL is one of the worst in the NFL.

I am definetely in the camp that believes a QB should be the one making opportunities and not relying on his players, but there are limited exceptions to these rules. Luck's situation is one of them.

Honestly the Colts have enough talent on their offense. Duane Allen is a stud and Coby Fleener is serviceable (better than Paulsen/Paul). TY Hilton is a legit #2 (ask Legion of Boom). Moncrief and Dorsett are better than our role receivers (Crowder, Grant). The Colts problem lies with their philosophy. The Colts want to pass the ball a million times to make their superstar qb numbers look great and put fans in the stand. Their offensive line is bottom half of the league for sure but they would be much better if the Colts could run the ball more often. Defenses bring the heat because they know they are passing 65% of the time. Andrew Luck lastly isn't the perfect qb everyone thinks. The same things that all of our qb's are bashed for mechanic wise...drop backs/ release time/ taking un-needed hits/ turning the ball over he does as well. The difference is he makes a lot more plays than our qb's because he has had the green light to throw whatever without a lot of criticism.

Back on topic. It is just like the media to try to stir controversy when the Redskins win a game or we have some light of hope. Happens everytime.

[SkinsJock]

.. So he won't be on the team next year? What will change between now and then...is he going to foget how to play....according to you he's here because he can play the position??

amazing how people can twist things - I think Griffin is still here because he can play QB (maybe not here but somewhere) and someone here must think that too - the guys in charge here must think he's worth something or he would not still be here - is that not fair to assume?
I do not think that Griffin will be here next season ... but then again I don't think that Cousins or Gruden will be here next season either

What did I twist? No I don't think RG is here because he can play (in this sysytem), if that were the case I think he would be active week in and week out. I think he is here for a few other reasons but playing in this system is not one of them.

sorry DeHog - I'm not playing your game of semantics ... but ... you asked for it - let's try this angle ... Griffin is here because the guys in charge think he's worth keeping around - now, that means they think/hope that some franchise agrees with them, in that, they think this kid can play QB - now how hard was that?

there's no way that some here can swallow that pill, but it's the truth

[DEHog]

sorry DeHog - I'm not playing your game of semantics ... but ... you asked for it - let's try this angle ... Griffin is here because the guys in charge think he's worth keeping around - now, that means they think/hope that some franchise agrees with them, in that, they think this kid can play QB - now how hard was that?

there's no way that some here can swallow that pill, but it's the truth

Not hard at all, but that's a bit different than what you said. Big difference between thinking he has some value in this league and those in charge thinking he's their QB of the future. "If" those in charge thought he was our QB of the future or as you say "they think this kid can play QB' wouldn't he be playing or at least active?? I guarantee you if RG was a 3rd or 4th round pick that we didn't ttrade anything for he'd been cut already.

[Deadskins]

I guarantee you if RG was a 3rd or 4th round pick that we didn't ttrade anything for he'd been cut already.

Depends on if he still had 2012 under his belt. But, other than that, you are right. We also wouldn't have been faced with the option year in 2016 decision, which seems to be a snag in the trade scenario. If he had been a 3rd rounder, with 2012, he probably would have been traded already. Without 2012, he'd have been gone a couple of years ago.

[DEHog]

I guarantee you if RG was a 3rd or 4th round pick that we didn't ttrade anything for he'd been cut already.

Depends on if he still had 2012 under his belt. But, other than that, you are right. We also wouldn't have been faced with the option year in 2016 decision, which seems to be a snag in the trade scenario. If he had been a 3rd rounder, with 2012, he probably would have been traded already. Without 2012, he'd have been gone a couple of years ago.

I took 2012 into account...IMO he would have still been cut...all things being equal (no one offered a trade)

[SkinsJock]

Fact is he's here - as some have pointed out, there's absolutely no way this kid can make it as an NFL QB - to them he's not worth keeping - all I'm asking is, if all that is true, then why is he here? the answer is not "we're hoping to get something for him" - how in the world do you get something for a player that cannot play - that's all I'm asking

anyone?

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

Fact is he's here - as some have pointed out, there's absolutely no way this kid can make it as an NFL QB - to them he's not worth keeping - all I'm asking is, if all that is true, then why is he here? the answer is not "we're hoping to get something for him" - how in the world do you get something for a player that cannot play - that's all I'm asking

anyone?

He's already bought and paid for this season. You're paying the $3.4M either way. If you cut him you're paying $6.7M. I think you know the answer to your own question.

This site needs a beating a dead horse smilie.

[DEHog]

Fact is he's here - as some have pointed out, there's absolutely no way this kid can make it as an NFL QB - to them he's not worth keeping - all I'm asking is, if all that is true, then why is he here? the answer is not "we're hoping to get something for him" - how in the world do you get something for a player that cannot play - that's all I'm asking

anyone?

He's already bought and paid for this season. You're paying the $3.4M either way. If you cut him you're paying $6.7M. I think you know the answer to your own question.

This site needs a beating a dead horse smilie.

Why is that so hard to understand SJ?

[markshark84]

Honestly the Colts have enough talent on their offense. Duane Allen is a stud and Coby Fleener is serviceable (better than Paulsen/Paul). TY Hilton is a legit #2 (ask Legion of Boom). Moncrief and Dorsett are better than our role receivers (Crowder, Grant). The Colts problem lies with their philosophy. The Colts want to pass the ball a million times to make their superstar qb numbers look great and put fans in the stand. Their offensive line is bottom half of the league for sure but they would be much better if the Colts could run the ball more often. Defenses bring the heat because they know they are passing 65% of the time. Andrew Luck lastly isn't the perfect qb everyone thinks. The same things that all of our qb's are bashed for mechanic wise...drop backs/ release time/ taking un-needed hits/ turning the ball over he does as well. The difference is he makes a lot more plays than our qb's because he has had the green light to throw whatever without a lot of criticism.

Back on topic. It is just like the media to try to stir controversy when the Redskins win a game or we have some light of hope. Happens everytime.

Well, I disagree with your talent assessment.
- Allen is not a "stud" -- not even CLOSE. The guy had 29 --- YES 29 --- receptions last year. So these days a TE who is 27th in the league in receptions is now a "stud"..... His best year was 2012 when he had 50 receptions..... I can name 15-20 better TEs (and Flener is one of them).
- Flener is serviceable but not talented -- big difference.
- Hilton is a slot (not #2), playing #1 --- big problem.
- Role receivers (outside of #1, 2 and slot) shouldn't even be considered. Sort of grasping at straws even bringing these guys into the conversation.

Their real issue is that they do NOT have a #1 WR OR a RB. That is a HUGE deal. Without a real #1 WR threat, it shortens the field. Without an RB and a BAD OL, it exacerbates things even further.

As far as the bold ---- so you think they should run the ball with a bad RB and OL and a stacked DEF more often???? Sooooo, how do you think that would work out.......

Luck is literally the only shread of talent their offense has. While I don't consider him a top 5 QB, he is in the top 10 (and close to top 5). As far as his mechanics --- first off, only 1 of our QBs has mechanics issues and that is RGIII. Cousins has solid mechanics and make lighting fast reads. I don't care about McCoy. That being said, Luck's mechanics are NOWHERE near similar to RGIIIs..... Luck is also 40 pounds heavier than RGIII and build to take hits, has average read times, and is mechanically sound in all aspects (footwork, reads, progressions, etc). Listen, I know that people are butt hurt about the RGIII situation, but it is what it is. Just because it didn't pan out doesn't mean we have to bring other QBs down and make completely false statements about those QBs.

And sorry man, this isn't some conspiracy theory to sell tickets. Their HC knows that they have no run game and poor OL. It's not a big secret. Every team in the league laces up to WIN --- because that is what puts fans in the chairs.

[SkinsJock]

I'm just tired of the piling on - there are a few here that just want Griffin gone because they can't stand him - just own up to it, like I own up to hoping that Griffin can still play - don't try and cover up the bias

btw - this is a Redskins site and I really like annoying those that I don't agree with - it's part of the reason I post here - that and the fact that we have a number of supposed fans here that think they're knowledgeable about the game when they're obviously not

[riggofan]

I'm just tired of the piling on - there are a few here that just want Griffin gone because they can't stand him - just own up to it, like I own up to hoping that Griffin can still play - don't try and cover up the bias

hah. Not sure what you're looking for exactly. I can guess most of the posters you're referring to. I don't think any of them have exactly hid the fact that they're done with Griffin and just want him completely gone.

I get it though. What's the point of beating on RGIII right now? He's not even dressing for these games. He's keeping his head down and avoiding any big issues.

[SkinsJock]

not really looking for anything and you're right a couple have finally owned up to their feelings ...

I have watched the games and it looks to me like Griffin is a positive - just let it go or admit that the only reason you want him gone is that there's a very slight chance that he could get back out there while he's still on the roster ... now, that would be fun



I'm enthused that the product on the field is looking so promising

Thursday night, we have a big opportunity to show a lot of NFL fans that things are changing here - no matter the outcome, it would be great to see us show the nation that we are not the disaster we have been on national TV

we can beat the giants - that would be huge

[DEHog]

btw - this is a Redskins site and I really like annoying those that I don't agree with - it's part of the reason I post here - that and the fact that we have a number of supposed fans here that think they're knowledgeable about the game when they're obviously not

So you just want to annoy people but you think you know more than others...i take it you're kidding??? You sound really emotionally invested in RG. He can either play or he can't and right now there are people who know much more about football than you and I that think he can't??

[Burgundy&GoldForever]

This thread is painful to read.

[riggofan]

This thread is painful to read.

That's usually how the Griffin threads go.