The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

When are people going to let go of Gibbs? It's the past. Time to move forward. Not saying Gruden is the future, but I'm thinking he should at the very least get a third year here.

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:

riggofan wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:Gruden stays the year at the very least.

Even firing him after two years is kind of insane for a bunch of reasons.

Double bingo.

regardless, it won't be Snyder's call.


... And forget about Gibbs v3. Not happening.

First off Gibbs is too classy to down talk his former employer. Heck Gibbs mentions talks with Snyder over the phone at midnight. This tells you how involved Snyder is with everything. Heck I sure as heck dont want to talk to my employer off the clock.

I seriously cant imagine Gibbs speaking to Jack Kent Cooke at midnight? For what reason?

riggofan wrote:

PulpExposure wrote:Gibbs is not coming back, and I'm not sure I'd want to do that to a 75 year old man anyways. Also, Gruden's contract is fully guarenteed, meaning if Snyder fired him during the season, he'd walk away with whatever he had for this year, plus 12 million more for the next 3 years. Snyder is an evil blood sucking vampire, but he's not a stupid businessman.

Gruden stays the year at the very least.

Even firing him after two years is kind of insane for a bunch of reasons. The five year contract is obviously a huge part of that.

I'm not sure if Snyder would ever take this into consideration, but what quality coach in his right mind would be willing to take this job after that? This is not a very attractive situation as it is. You fire a coach two years into a five year contract, because he didn't turn around this horrible roster quickly enough? Because he couldn't work miracles with RG3? That's freaking nuts. This job is becoming a death sentence for coaches.

I'm still not sure what exactly Gruden has done to warrant any of these calls for him to be fired in the first place. People can choose to like or dislike him for whatever reasons, but I hate to break it to people. We're not coming off a 4-12 season because Jay Gruden is an awful coach.

Won't stop fans from arguing the point. Every two years the fan base brain trust tells us that we need a new coach because this one can't call plays. That's really been working out well.

While I agree with everything you said, the wildcard is SM. It would be an easy sell IMO for him to fire Gruden...saying "he wasn't a SM guy etc... I'm sure SM has some ties with quality NFL coaches in the league. There are only 32 of these jobs and where else can a first time HC get a 5 year guaranteed deal!!

This is a message board and I was just passing along what I had heard. Some of you need to chill with your smart comments. Perhaps if some of you got laid you all might be a bit more easy to deal with. Jesus Christ, now I remember why I stopped posting on this board. Retards seem to still be running a muck.

The fact is it's not Jay Gruden is a quality hire in the first place. What has he done to warrant any security? Who has he out coached? What half time adjustments has he made? The fact is he is living off his brother's accolades and if it wasn't for his brother he most likely wouldn't even be in the NFL. This team is as dysfunctional as some of the posters on this board. The fact is SM should pick the coach, not be forced to work with a average at best OC that has done nothing to warrant a Head Coach position in the first place. But hey the Redskins are world beaters so what the heck do I know?

langleyparkjoe wrote:

Burgundy&Wha? wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote::mrgreen:

... he's also bringing back the original hogs along with Mark Rypien

Why the hell would he do that when Doug Williams is already in the building?

Touche... my bad my bad.. or maybe one will be a backup for the other?
Hell, one starts the first half and the other starts the second half?

Do you really believe that? 15 million is nothing to Snyder, didn't Forbes just say the Redskins are worth 2.4 Billion? This is a drop in the bucket. From what I am hearing RGIII will collect his 16 million next year as well. Of course none of us really know but we can only go on past actions and I don't care what anyone says, Snyder is still calling the shots and SM while good at picking players which should bring better talent to the Skins doesn't have the power that he claims cause if he did, RGIII would not be on this team. #FACT

Nailed it.

http://deadspin.com/nobody-hates-the-sk ... 10?ref=yfp

The great ole days. RFK rocked. My father took me to my first football game there as a kid, I got to see OJ Simpson......

DaSkinz Baby wrote:The fact is it's not Jay Gruden is a quality hire in the first place. What has he done to warrant any security? Who has he out coached? What half time adjustments has he made? The fact is he is living off his brother's accolades and if it wasn't for his brother he most likely wouldn't even be in the NFL.

Fan base brain trust making my point for me. Thank you.

I'm looking forward to this popular tune all season long. Certain to join the litany of greatest hits such as "Kyle Shanahan sucks and is only here because his dad is the coach."

DEHog wrote:While I agree with everything you said, the wildcard is SM. It would be an easy sell IMO for him to fire Gruden...saying "he wasn't a SM guy etc... I'm sure SM has some ties with quality NFL coaches in the league. There are only 32 of these jobs and where else can a first time HC get a 5 year guaranteed deal!!

Yeah I can agree with your comment about McCloughan, man. If McCloughan decided to move on from Gruden this year, so be it. What I don't want to see is yet another coach gone because of Snyder's impatience or the ill informed howls of fans. And as much as it sucks to say, we can't be judging these guys on W-Ls yet. We're just not a good enough roster yet to be expecting one coach or one QB or one kicker or whatever to be the difference maker consistently winning games for us.

Even if SM doesn't like Gruden, I would still be very surprised to see him move on after this year. He's already warned that the rebuilding process is going to take some time.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:While I agree with everything you said, the wildcard is SM. It would be an easy sell IMO for him to fire Gruden...saying "he wasn't a SM guy etc... I'm sure SM has some ties with quality NFL coaches in the league. There are only 32 of these jobs and where else can a first time HC get a 5 year guaranteed deal!!

Yeah I can agree with your comment about McCloughan, man. If McCloughan decided to move on from Gruden this year, so be it. What I don't want to see is yet another coach gone because of Snyder's impatience or the ill informed howls of fans. And as much as it sucks to say, we can't be judging these guys on W-Ls yet. We're just not a good enough roster yet to be expecting one coach or one QB or one kicker or whatever to be the difference maker consistently winning games for us.

Even if SM doesn't like Gruden, I would still be very surprised to see him move on after this year. He's already warned that the rebuilding process is going to take some time.

Riggofan, is it wrong to simply want COMPETENCE? I mean come on the points I raised are valid. I don't care about wins and losses when a coach is first hired but God Dammit I do expect to see some signs of progression. Jay Gruden is a fricking hack, he wasn't liked or respected in Cincy! and since being here has done nothing but be out coached and look like nothing but a deer in headlights.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Riggofan, is it wrong to simply want COMPETENCE? I mean come on the points I raised are valid. I don't care about wins and losses when a coach is first hired but God Dammit I do expect to see some signs of progression. Jay Gruden is a fricking hack, he wasn't liked or respected in Cincy! and since being here has done nothing but be out coached and look like nothing but a deer in headlights.

Brilliant analysis.

Seriously man. All you are doing is whining. You want competence? We came out in week 1 intending to run the ball on reputedly one of the best d-lines in the league. Did we rush for 160 yards? Did we cut down on sacks by starting Cousins over Griffin?

I'm sorry man, but you're not asking for competence you're asking for wins. And you're whining because the team isn't good enough to win consistently yet.

riggofan wrote:Seriously man. All you are doing is whining. You want competence? We came out in week 1 intending to run the ball on reputedly one of the best d-lines in the league. Did we rush for 160 yards? Did we cut down on sacks by starting Cousins over Griffin?

I'm sorry man, but you're not asking for competence you're asking for wins. And you're whining because the team isn't good enough to win consistently yet.

So Suh kicking Morris in the head, and ripping Moses helmet off and almost poking his eyes out and our offensive line being called for 11 penalty's is nothing right? All the quick passes that Gruden and McVay called Sunday, which WAS NEVER CALLED when RGIII was in means nothing as well right? Competence is calling plays to the strength of the players, I see Gruden and McVay do that for Cousins but didn't for RGIII. Sorry that is what I see. I think we have more than enough talent to win now, however we have a HC that brings knives to gun fights. Yep that is what I see.......

My take - I just hope that Scot is in charge here and is evaluating everyone's performance and making plans for 2016 and beyond

Question: what is the significance of Griffin still being on the roster - if he's not a part of the plan for the future, he should be gone - this does not seem like a decision that was made solely by Scot and Jay - that's a problem ....


btw - Dan Snyder bought the Redskins and FedEx Field in May 1999 for $800M - the franchise is currently valued at $2.85B and growing!

Joe Gibbs is not coming back to coach the Redskins but Dan Snyder can afford to do anything and everything he wants

DaSkinz Baby wrote:Jay Gruden is a fricking hack, he wasn't liked or respected in Cincy! and since being here has done nothing but be out coached and look like nothing but a deer in headlights.

He wasn't? Citation needed. I know the fans were complaining about his offense but fans are generally the least educated people when it comes to judging coaching. All we see is the results.

Here's a quote from ESPN:

the Bengals were mostly successful under Gruden the past three seasons, posting a combined 30-18 regular-season record and watching Dalton enjoy some of the best passing numbers of any quarterback through his first three seasons, there was one glaring issue: They weren't very good in the postseason.

So, the fans didn't like or respect a coach who led them to a .625 winning percentage? When was the last time we had one of those? 2012. And only three times since 1991. Gruden also inherited a much worse roster in D.C. than he had in Cincy. He may not be the head coach we hoped we were getting but so far in his tenure he has a lot of valid reasons for the onus being placed elsewhere. If anyone expects much out of what he has to work with this season that's a problem. It's a tough schedule. There are already numerous injuries to starters and backups. There are player suspensions. The secondary in particular was suspect even before the injuries. There are two new offensive linemen who have played together a total of one game. I could continue but there's little point. The only people who wanted Gruden gone in Cincy were the fans who didn't care for his playcalling. So, they got what they asked for: Hue Jackson. Another OC who can't win a playoff game. Same results. Wild card playoff game loss. That should tell you it wasn't Gruden who was the problem.

SkinsJock wrote:Question: what is the significance of Griffin still being on the roster - if he's not a part of the plan for the future, he should be gone - this does not seem like a decision that was made solely by Scot and Jay - that's a problem ....

Yea I've been questioning that as well, if you see any value or hope in him developing shouldn't he be playing?
It's makes no sense to keep him and not play him. My fear is that SM wanted to cut him and signal a new era in Washington that's no one's safe and he is clearly in charge...keeping him says to me that he may not be??

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote: ... what is the significance of Griffin still being on the roster - if he's not a part of the plan for the future, he should be gone - this does not seem like a decision that was made solely by Scot and Jay - that's a problem

Yea I've been questioning that as well, if you see any value or hope in him developing shouldn't he be playing?
It's makes no sense to keep him and not play him. My fear is that SM wanted to cut him and signal a new era in Washington, that no one's safe and he is clearly in charge...keeping him says to me that he may not be??

If Griffin is still here in a week or 2 and we keep losing games we should have won, especially against better teams - this could be a big mess

there's logic in the thought that this is a rebuilding season and it does not matter who is the QB or the HC ... but this owner is not that ...

SkinsJock wrote:If Griffin is still here in a week or 2 and we keep losing games we should have won, especially against better teams - this could be a big mess

We were 3.5 point underdogs at home. Just because we COULD have won that game doesn't mean that we SHOULD have won that game. It certainly wasn't the expectation.

I agree with your comment though SJ that its going to be a distraction with Griffin on the sideline every time we don't win a game. It already is. Honestly though, its going to be a mess either way. The only difference is that if we cut him people will be complaining that we cut him rather than complaining that we should start him. Pick your poison.

I still believe that this is just a calculated business move right now. Holding out for the possibility that we might get something for him rather than just letting him walk and getting nothing. Or at least I want to believe that's the case. Who knows for certain...?

Burgundy&GoldForever wrote:Here's a quote from ESPN:

the Bengals were mostly successful under Gruden the past three seasons, posting a combined 30-18 regular-season record and watching Dalton enjoy some of the best passing numbers of any quarterback through his first three seasons, there was one glaring issue: They weren't very good in the postseason.

hah. Let's not let historical facts get in the way of our arguments. Good stuff!

Seriously though. I'm more than willing to believe that Gruden might not ultimately make the grade as a head coach. He would not be the first OC who couldn't make the jump. Judging him after only 17 games especially given all of the issues with this team coming in? Come on, let's not be stupid.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:All the quick passes that Gruden and McVay called Sunday, which WAS NEVER CALLED when RGIII was in means nothing as well right? Competence is calling plays to the strength of the players, I see Gruden and McVay do that for Cousins but didn't for RGIII. Sorry that is what I see...

Well at least we all know that you're part of the Robert Griffin butt hurt camp. Yes, if only Gruden/Shanahan would just call the right plays he would be good again.

It's kind of interesting that if you want Griffin to play QB you're part of whatever a "butt hurt" camp reference means

some of us just want what's best for this franchise in the long term & see some things happening that we don't see the same way as others do

I don't think that Jay Gruden and Kirk Cousins are going to be here next season but I certainly don't think that it's in the best interests of this franchise to get rid of them this early in the season

I also do not think Griffin should be here if Jay Gruden is not planning on having him play QB here, BUT, I don't think that Scot should let Griffin go if he thinks that Griffin can still help this franchise

I just hope that Scot is in charge here and not Dan Snyder - it does not look like that is the case ...

but ... I'm a part of the "butt hurt" camp and we certainly don't know as much as the "Kirk Kissers" camp do

or, is that the "Kissing Cousins" camp ... whatever

I think coaches coach and players play and I think 1982 Joe Gibbs couldn't do much with this roster. I think RGIII doesn't understand the fundamentals of the NFL game and no amount of film study or playbook review is helping. I think he just doesn't get it and never will. That's not saying he's dumb. It's saying his football IQ is low. A lot of intelligent people fail at the quarterback position. It's takes a very specialized ability to rapidly process information. Not many have it. Einstein and Hawking may have processed some of the most complicated information known in recorded history but neither did it in a matter of seconds with a team intentionally impeding their progress. I'm thinking they would have (theoretically) made poor quarterbacks. You know who would probably make a great quarterback from the neck up? Those people who never miss an answer on Jeopardy. They have an ability to process information quickly.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

langleyparkjoe wrote:Touche... my bad my bad.. or maybe one will be a backup for the other?
Hell, one starts the first half and the other starts the second half?

Do you really believe that?

Wait wait wait... believe what? That Doug and Rypien will be backups for each other?
Exactly what are you asking me bro?

Everyone knows that Griffin cannot play QB ... right? Everyone knows this. maybe not the "Griffin butt hurt" camp, but everyone else, right?

If Griffin is still here because Dan Snyder wants him here, then it really is possible that Joe Gibbs is going to come back and either be the HC or advise Dan Snyder on who should be playing and coaching here - are you freaking kidding me ...

BTW - does anyone really and truly think that Griffin is still on this roster because Jay Gruden wants him here?


this is really a shame - these guys had better find a way to win 1 of the next 3 games - we cannot go 0-4 with 3 home games ... right?