The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:There isn't a team in the NFL outside of the Jets that would start Griffin over who they currently have. Nothing to worry about if he resigns with another team.

geez man - enough already ... how do you know for certain that Griffin cannot become a good NFL QB

and,

how do you know for certain that Jay Gruden is going to be the HC here next season if Cousins and McCoy do not prove to be capable QBs

I agree

The Skins happen to ruin players.

Griffin will probably be a starter again next year. He just needs to get away from the circus.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:The only coach Snyder has been afraid to interfere with was Gibbs.

More like Marty. If he hadn't interfered with Joe, we would have never had Al Saunders and his 1,000,000 page playbook.

haha true. I did think of Marty when I wrote that - but of course he just canned him instead of interfering.

Jay Gruden wanted to be the HC here and that means he has a job with an owner that screws everything up - he knew that when he came here and he did not handle that or the QB mess very well - that is on him

recently he announced that Griffin was the starting QB and that mess continued even though we could see who was playing QB better

IMO - Scot has stepped in and Cousins is now the QB and Scot and Gruden are in charge of who plays, not Dan or Bruce

it's simple, Gruden gets to show Scot (Bruce and Dan) that he can be a good HC or he is out of here

I have (and will continue to) always contended that we got the WRONG Gruden. I think Danny wanted Jon, and then settled for a name: cough cough , over the hill shanny. Proof is in the pudding. Dalton? Ya pretty much a Rex Grossman w stud receivers... Similar to an int throwing machine who just inherited the starting job here, huh go figure.

Regardless of the qb play I think he has a long way to go, to prove me he isn't a liability as our HC.

Just my humble opinion

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I have (and will continue to) always contended that we got the WRONG Gruden. I think Danny wanted Jon, and then settled for a name: cough cough , over the hill shanny. Proof is in the pudding. Dalton? Ya pretty much a Rex Grossman w stud receivers... Similar to an int throwing machine who just inherited the starting job here, huh go figure.

Regardless of the qb play I think he has a long way to go, to prove me he isn't a liability as our HC.

Just my humble opinion

there's a lot messed up here - this is still a franchise in a major rebuild mode - we were hoping to get 6-8 wins no matter who was playing QB

now Jay gets to play with the QB that everyone thinks better suits his offense but he still does not have much of an O line

the defense should be better but that's not saying much and and there are still obvious issues with special teams

hope springs eternal each year - this is the Redskins - I do think Scot will get it right if he gets enough time

StorminMormon86 wrote:There isn't a team in the NFL outside of the Jets that would start Griffin over who they currently have.

Seems like a fairly straightforward opinion that is either true or not far from it. Of course a lot could change but, right now, Griff's pretty bad.

Of course, "who" should be "whom" but who cares.

SkinsJock wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I have (and will continue to) always contended that we got the WRONG Gruden. I think Danny wanted Jon, and then settled for a name: cough cough , over the hill shanny. Proof is in the pudding. Dalton? Ya pretty much a Rex Grossman w stud receivers... Similar to an int throwing machine who just inherited the starting job here, huh go figure.

Regardless of the qb play I think he has a long way to go, to prove me he isn't a liability as our HC.

Just my humble opinion

there's a lot messed up here - this is still a franchise in a major rebuild mode - we were hoping to get 6-8 wins no matter who was playing QB

now Jay gets to play with the QB that everyone thinks better suits his offense but he still does not have much of an O line

the defense should be better but that's not saying much and and there are still obvious issues with special teams

hope springs eternal each year - this is the Redskins - I do think Scot will get it right if he gets enough time

Ya... My point was that Jon woulda been a much better candidate, falling for his inexperienced (as far as HC goes) brother had more to do with his genes rather then his accomplishments. The Gruden name attracted fanboy and Bruce, imho.

With Scott in place I think we can now find better.. Jay still looks like he is in over his head, but not quite as clueless as last year tho.

Getting a challenge flag right/overturned was nice to finally see! Sob

riggofan wrote:Btw even now that Gruden has picked Cousins as his starter for the season, is anybody really 100% sure Cousins is the guy he wanted? There's been speculation that he just couldn't sell the team on benching Griffin to start McCoy.

I'm not saying that's true. Just given how things have gone so far, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

No way. Keim has said that both McCoy and Griffin had problems holding the ball too long during the camps, and that Cousins excelled in this area. Among other things (Cousins' performance in the preseason games) is the reason why Gruden picked him to start, IMO. They know what they have in McCoy. Not so much with Cousins.

OMG...how do you all continue to find the energy to blog about dysfunction -- 3 and 4 win years, Jay, RGIII, Synder, Tweets, Mike S....

What makes this type of drama go away is winning. Fans of 4-12 teams ALL believe they know the answer to turning it around.

We can't go back and fix the past, yeah, maybe Jay wasn't the guy to match up with RGIII. Maybe RGIII has spent too much time with his logo, maybe the players hate him, maybe it's fault, NOT Jay's, who knows at this point! It's Kirk time!

My hope is, Scot and Jay have us moving forward. We are finally beyond the $36 million cap penalty. (I believe we were still suffering from it last year). Scot made some great moves in FA, draft and resigning guys...give Jay a chance with his pick of Def Coord, better players on D and a run game.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Btw even now that Gruden has picked Cousins as his starter for the season, is anybody really 100% sure Cousins is the guy he wanted? There's been speculation that he just couldn't sell the team on benching Griffin to start McCoy.

I'm not saying that's true. Just given how things have gone so far, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

No way. Keim has said that both McCoy and Griffin had problems holding the ball too long during the camps, and that Cousins excelled in this area. Among other things (Cousins' performance in the preseason games) is the reason why Gruden picked him to start, IMO. They know what they have in McCoy. Not so much with Cousins.

I hope you're right on that, and I don't disagree with your reasoning. My point is just that given what's happened to date - specifically Gruden standing up in front of the world supporting a QB he clearly didn't support - its impossible to know for 100% certain.

I have heard consistently that they liked Cousins last preseason over McCoy and he just didn't deliver when he had his chance. Very possible that's the case this year. Hopefully KC will perform better this time around.

SkinsJock wrote:he did not handle that or the QB mess very well - that is on him

Again man, that's incredibly easy for you to write. What specifically should he have done to handle the QB mess better? If your boss tells you to start RGIII, announce him as the starter, etc; what specific thing could he have done to handle the situation better? He could quit his job and lose his paycheck. He could tell Snyder, no, and be fired for failing to do his job and lose his paycheck. What is it you believe he could have done?

SkinsJock wrote:recently he announced that Griffin was the starting QB and that mess continued even though we could see who was playing QB better

And why did he have to make that announcement? There's no longer any mystery about who has been responsible for this year's QB fiasco. Why are you wasting our time trying to blame that on Gruden when that is demonstrably false?

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

riggofan wrote:Btw even now that Gruden has picked Cousins as his starter for the season, is anybody really 100% sure Cousins is the guy he wanted? There's been speculation that he just couldn't sell the team on benching Griffin to start McCoy.

I'm not saying that's true. Just given how things have gone so far, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

No way. Keim has said that both McCoy and Griffin had problems holding the ball too long during the camps, and that Cousins excelled in this area. Among other things (Cousins' performance in the preseason games) is the reason why Gruden picked him to start, IMO. They know what they have in McCoy. Not so much with Cousins.

I hope you're right on that, and I don't disagree with your reasoning. My point is just that given what's happened to date - specifically Gruden standing up in front of the world supporting a QB he clearly didn't support - its impossible to know for 100% certain.

I have heard consistently that they liked Cousins last preseason over McCoy and he just didn't deliver when he had his chance. Very possible that's the case this year. Hopefully KC will perform better this time around.

I have full confidence that he did in fact make a "huge leap" as Gruden put it. If he didn't, they most surely would have rolled with the "safest" bet...McCoy.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:he did not handle that or the QB mess very well - that is on him

Again man, that's incredibly easy for you to write. What specifically should he have done to handle the QB mess better? If your boss tells you to start RGIII, announce him as the starter, etc; what specific thing could he have done to handle the situation better? He could quit his job and lose his paycheck. He could tell Snyder, no, and be fired for failing to do his job and lose his paycheck. What is it you believe he could have done?

SkinsJock wrote:recently he announced that Griffin was the starting QB and that mess continued even though we could see who was playing QB better

And why did he have to make that announcement? There's no longer any mystery about who has been responsible for this year's QB fiasco. Why are you wasting our time trying to blame that on Gruden when that is demonstrably false?

I'm wasting your time - get out of here with that BS - who are you to make that call here?

Gruden wanted to be the HC - he came in here fully knowing that Dan Snyder would interfere with just about everything he would want to do - the only way he could get the job was because Snyder wanted someone to make his pet QB and friend into a much better QB - that went bad almost as soon as Gruden watched RG3 play - then Gruden humiliated Snyder's pet QB and friend - PLUS - Gruden did not 'look like a good HC' last season - he now has his coaches and his QB - this could get messy unless he shows improvement - everybody knows we do not have a good O line and the secondary and special teams are not all that great - fact is, Gruden needs to 'look like' he can do the job - he has not done that

So - Jay Gruden wanted to be the only HC that could come and work for Dan Snyder and make this a better NFL team?

How's that worked out?

SkinsJock wrote:I'm wasting your time - get out of here with that BS - who are you to make that call here?

Quit deflecting and back up your statement. You've repeatedly written that Gruden should have "handled the QB situation better". You still haven't explained HOW he could have handled it better or WHAT he could have done differently.

SkinsJock wrote:So - Jay Gruden wanted to be the only HC that could come and work for Dan Snyder and make this a better NFL team?

How's that worked out?

Jay Gruden wanted to be the only HC that could come and work for Dan Snyder and make this a better NFL team? huh???

I assume that any coach who took the job would want to be the only HC. Not sure that's actually an unreasonable expectation.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:So - Jay Gruden wanted to be the only HC that could come and work for Dan Snyder and make this a better NFL team?

How's that worked out?

Jay Gruden wanted to be the only HC that could come and work for Dan Snyder and make this a better NFL team? huh???

I assume that any coach who took the job would want to be the only HC. Not sure that's actually an unreasonable expectation.

No, but the same people who scream "leave Robert alone" love to pile on Gruden an awful lot.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:I'm wasting your time - get out of here with that BS - who are you to make that call here?

Quit deflecting and back up your statement. You've repeatedly written that Gruden should have "handled the QB situation better". You still haven't explained HOW he could have handled it better or WHAT he could have done differently.

Wasn't that Gruden's job to figure out? Far be it for me to defend Snyder but you know Gruden was brought here to mentor/coach/correct RGIII. If Gruden felt he couldn't do that then he shouldn't have taken the job. Gruden wasn't in the building 6 months and hadn't played one regular season game before he started bailing on RG. While I don't believe Snyder "told" him who to play, I'm quite sure he reminded Gruden of why he was hired. So fast forward to this year and I'm sure Snyder gave in and said OK...but if Gruden doesn't win ( not so much with Cousins but more so without Robert)...he could be looking for new job next year.

Many have pointed out the obvious - winning cures all ills.

But how? Beating the Jaguars and Titans does nothing for the Redskins. I wish the head coach would come out and say, "It starts with beating our divisional rivals." I would gladly go 6-10 for 1-2 years if it meant sweeping the NFC East. I think the momentum has to start there. Dominate your divisional rivals and the rest will take care of itself. It would be a great way to focus the players on a few teams, double up on the game tape for those games, and unleash the fury on the teams that we as fans hate the most.

This would be a very unconventional approach, but I think it would be a great way for a struggling young coach to build rapport with the players, fans and front office. Step 1 - beat the rivals. Step 2 - Make the playoffs. Step 3 - SUPER BOWL baby!! This would be my overly simplified approach to getting the franchise back on track. While the one-game-at-a-time approach is great for a winning team not needing to overlook any team, when you are at the bottom, the view/perspective must be very different. Certain games are more important than others. Colt is now thought of as an equal by many to Cousins simply because he marched into big D and brought home a big W.

If the Redskins were known as that pesky team that the Cowboys, Eagles and Giants just can't beat, the national attitude would be significantly different. Instead, we are the expected W of the division. It's gotta start there.

DEHog wrote:Wasn't that Gruden's job to figure out? Far be it for me to defend Snyder but you know Gruden was brought here to mentor/coach/correct RGIII. If Gruden felt he couldn't do that then he shouldn't have taken the job.

Fair enough, man. I don't totally agree with that, but its at least an answer to the question. The answer is: he should have handled "the QB mess" by turning Robert into an effective NFL QB in one season. (Something Mike Shanahan failed to do in three.)

DEHog wrote:While I don't believe Snyder "told" him who to play

oh man.

To be fair to Gruden, I don't know how much he knew how far off in development Griffin was when he took the job.

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:Wasn't that Gruden's job to figure out? Far be it for me to defend Snyder but you know Gruden was brought here to mentor/coach/correct RGIII. If Gruden felt he couldn't do that then he shouldn't have taken the job.

Fair enough, man. I don't totally agree with that, but its at least an answer to the question. The answer is: he should have handled "the QB mess" by turning Robert into an effective NFL QB in one season. (Something Mike Shanahan failed to do in three.)

DEHog wrote:While I don't believe Snyder "told" him who to play

oh man.

OK I'll play your game....and I'm NOT a fan of Dan Snyder, what evidence do you have that Snyder made the decisions on who plays QB? If my memory is corect didn't RG get benched when he was healthy last year?

DEHog wrote:OK I'll play your game....and I'm NOT a fan of Dan Snyder, what evidence do you have that Snyder made the decisions on who plays QB? If my memory is corect didn't RG get benched when he was healthy last year?

You could totally see back in April when Gruden went from having an open QB competition to suddenly naming Griffin the starter for no apparent reason that he was blinking out morse code with his eyelids. "T-H-I-S-I-S-B-U-L-L-S-H..."

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:OK I'll play your game....and I'm NOT a fan of Dan Snyder, what evidence do you have that Snyder made the decisions on who plays QB? If my memory is corect didn't RG get benched when he was healthy last year?

You could totally see back in April when Gruden went from having an open QB competition to suddenly naming Griffin the starter for no apparent reason that he was blinking out morse code with his eyelids. "T-H-I-S-I-S-B-U-L-L-S-H..."

I think every serious person paying attention understands the emphasis to fix Griffin came from Snyder and the his employees did their best and couldn't fix Griffin.

OldSchool wrote:

riggofan wrote:

DEHog wrote:OK I'll play your game....and I'm NOT a fan of Dan Snyder, what evidence do you have that Snyder made the decisions on who plays QB? If my memory is corect didn't RG get benched when he was healthy last year?

You could totally see back in April when Gruden went from having an open QB competition to suddenly naming Griffin the starter for no apparent reason that he was blinking out morse code with his eyelids. "T-H-I-S-I-S-B-U-L-L-S-H..."

I think every serious person paying attention understands the emphasis to fix Griffin came from Snyder and the his employees did their best and couldn't fix Griffin.

Well of course it did, does it shock you that a boss asked his employee to do something he hired him to do?? Guess who said in the interveiw that he could!!
So after 6 months a few regular season games Gruden's done, that's it?? For the record I agree with the decsion, but Gruden didn't get it done and for that he should be held accountable.

Sorry Riggo I don't know morse code...not sure if what Gruden said about not wanting to answer all the questions about who the starting QB is all off seeason is true...but that was pretty smart thing if you ask me.