The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I'd love to see #47 try to make this roster ...

I agree with others -- the Oline out of the blocks is my biggest concern.

While the Oline could be good someday, olines take awhile to come together...I just hope Robert doesn't get killed before that "coming together" happens. If they don't meld quickly, the run game will suffer as will the passing game. Unfortunately, that could mean lots of early losses, the team spiraling downward, giving up (like last year), which then throws the team into a situation of questioning everything...coaches, qb, etc.... in essence, starting over. I worry about that the most.

The Defense (minus injuries) will be a lot better. Our Dline is considerably better with basically 3 new guys (if you buy that Hatcher was hurt a lot last year), adding Gallette will really help our pass rush (having Murphy and Smith as situational guys and backups is a real plus) AND our 4 starting DBs are so much better than last year...not worry about the defense!

I also am a little concerned about the O line - we have 2 guys on the right side with no experience

the offensive line will benefit IMO by having Callahan but like anything it's going to take time

I do think that we'll see improvement from the defense, ST and offense but the O line is an issue

The weakest position is the head coach.

Gruden is still learning how to be a head coach. So I am not sold on him as of yet. I am sure he knows all about the Xs and Os. However his motivational,leadership and strategic skills are big question mark to me. Of course these things come with experience. However I dont think we are in a position to groom a head coach when we have a young QB and team that are rebuilding.

Now to the positive. Thank the heavens above we have Scotty Mac. Everything he does and says seem to make perfect sense. Scott just knows what a successful team is supposed to look, act, talk and walk like. He just knows football.

I have no concerns about our defense. We have loads of talent in the secondary. I think Goldson at saftey will be fine. So lots of 3deep/cover 3 and we will be ok. Our corners are as talented a group as any. Hall is a vet and should help our young guys. Amerson has the talent and has been highly praised thus far in preseason. So I am not worried about our secondary.
Our linebackers are clearly talented Kerrigan, Gallette, Robinson those are three potential pro bowlers already mentioned thats not even mentioning Murphy and Smith.
Our Dline is clearly talented as well nuff said about them.
So I know our defense is going to be a strength for us. Now our offense it all depends on the Oline and the running game. We need our running game to be 1300 to 1500 yards by committee or however else we get it done.
This will help ease the pressure on our QB situation.
We have talent on offense we all know this. We have seen our players have success. Its just a matter of putting it all together.

Another minor concern but potentially big one is the tight end position. We need Jordan Reed healthy playing a full season. Reed is a weapon that needs to be on the field. He would help free up the middle routes. In which either he gets double teamed or they leave Jackson or Garcon one on one.

Which brings me back to Gruden. I feel that we have the necessary players to make a huge jump in wins. Im thinking a ten win season team with this talent.

So I ask this question.

If Bellicheck or Carrol were given this same roster. How well do you think they would do? How would there offense and defense differ?

How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

HEROHAMO wrote:How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles? He wasn't a world beater before Jay got here. And that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

StorminMormon86 wrote:that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

I disagree. It was the threat of Griffin running, that opened things up for Alfred. Look at 2013. Alf's numbers declined with basically the same line and coaches. What changed? In the game against Cleveland (the only game RGIII didn't play), he had his third highest attempts of the season, but his second lowest average yards per carry. I'm not saying that Alf didn't contribute mightily to the division title, just that the driving force behind that success was RGIII.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles?.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people already do.

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles?.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people already do.

The only thing I don't hold him accountable for, is not having a QB coach until this season. How ridiculous is that? You draft a QB #2 overall, and you don't even hire a QB coach to guide him until his 4th season?

Deadskins wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

I disagree. [b][b][u]It was the threat of Griffin running, that opened things up for Alfred[/u][/b][/b]. Look at 2013. Alf's numbers declined with basically the same line and coaches. What changed? In the game against Cleveland (the only game RGIII didn't play), he had his third highest attempts of the season, but his second lowest average yards per carry. [b][u]I'm not saying that Alf didn't contribute mightily to the division title, just that the driving force behind that success was RGIII[/u][/b].

This is spot on. RGIII lit the league on Fire in 2012. This is also the main reason why Alfred Morris has always been devalued by the fantasy geeks (sorry), imho a little too much, but still. Revisionist rewritting of RGIII's 2012 based on his struggles in the 2 intervening years is intellectually dishonest.

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles?.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people already do.

That's amazing. Stormin, you simultaneously are one of the more ardent holders of Griffin to being accountable for his shortcomings, yet are asking at what point we hold Griffin accountable. That cake you're eating must taste fantastic!

I doubt there is one actual Griffin supporter on this board that doesn't hold him accountable. The problem is that an extreme position taken in either direction re: Griffin will necessarily generate an equal and opposite reaction. The kind of accompanying hyperbole from both sides has thankfully died down since the end of last year, and is allowing more reasoned discussion of Griffin (& Gruden). Personally, that the shift even happened is emblematic of why this board is such a good one.

Deadskins wrote:

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles?.

It seems to me that the vast majority of people already do.

The only thing I don't hold him accountable for, is not having a QB coach until this season. How ridiculous is that? You draft a QB #2 overall, and you don't even hire a QB coach to guide him until his 4th season?

Especially when everyone and their mother knew that the system he ran in college meant his development to a "traditional" drop back passer would take more time than Luck or Wilson. This, by the way, makes his 2012 ROY performance that much more amazing. Sorry, not sorry.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:How well would Griffin be doing? All legitimate questions.

At what point do we hold Griffin accountable for his struggles? He wasn't a world beater before Jay got here ... that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

are you kidding? he's already been put in his place by many fans and his QB rating by the media is the lowest of the starting QBs - plus he knows his position as starting QB for this franchise WILL be taken away from him in a heartbeat if he does not show improvement

nobody's saying or intimating that Griffin's improvement is stunning but it's clearly been enough for him to hold the starting QB job ... for now

the starting QB job here is CLEARLY up for grabs - many predicted that Cousins would easily show that he was a better QB than the inept QB that Griffin had clearly become - this has not happened - Griffin seems to have shown the only people that matter, the coaches, who is the best QB

the detractors are just haters and do not want to accept that the coaches know more about a player's potential than they do

Griffin may not prove that he's a good starting NFL QB, but, all he has to do now is show he's better than McCoy or Cousins, that's easy

secondary and oline .... along with the dline as a unit ... we have talent up front but how we they play as a unit.

the oline has to take a percentage of the blame for rg3s performance .... right ? i mean his part is reading the d .... getting down or get rid of the ball .... most of all protecting the football

redskinz4ever wrote:the oline has to take a percentage of the blame for rg3s performance .... right ? i mean his part is reading the d .... getting down or get rid of the ball .... most of all protecting the football

Well... there's also going to the correct depth in his drop... 3 step... 5 step... 7 step... the OL sets up it's blocking scheme according to the anticipated drop. If Bob gets it wrong, he gets DL/LB in his face. That is ALL on Bob, but to the uneducated viewer, it looks like the OL got beat... When I hear about his improvements, I suspect that is one of the critical details he is finally understanding.

Countertrey wrote:

redskinz4ever wrote:the oline has to take a percentage of the blame for rg3s performance .... right ? i mean his part is reading the d .... getting down or get rid of the ball .... most of all protecting the football

Well... there's also going to the correct depth in his drop... 3 step... 5 step... 7 step... the OL sets up it's blocking scheme according to the anticipated drop. If Bob gets it wrong, he gets DL/LB in his face. That is ALL on Bob, but to the uneducated viewer, it looks like the OL got beat... When I hear about his improvements, I suspect that is one of the critical details he is finally understanding.

thats my understanding also ..... we shall see

would like to add a concern ..... special teams ... not so special !!!!!

Pulse Check? WE GOT FOOTBALL TONITE! WoofukingHoo! My pulse is checked and I'm ready!
Go Skins!

Deadskins wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

I disagree. It was the threat of Griffin running, that opened things up for Alfred. Look at 2013. Alf's numbers declined with basically the same line and coaches. What changed? In the game against Cleveland (the only game RGIII didn't play), he had his third highest attempts of the season, but his second lowest average yards per carry. I'm not saying that Alf didn't contribute mightily to the division title, just that the driving force behind that success was RGIII.

Ah yes...those games when Griffin essentially was playing on one leg. Clearly a run threat. And I forgot about how well he did against Cleveland that year as well.

emoses14 wrote:That's amazing. Stormin, you simultaneously are one of the more ardent holders of Griffin to being accountable for his shortcomings, yet are asking at what point we hold Griffin accountable. That cake you're eating must taste fantastic!

Which is exactly why I quoted the poster, I was asking HIM, not making a blanket statement. His post was essentially bashing Gruden for not developing Griffin properly.

SkinsJock wrote:are you kidding? he's already been put in his place by many fans and his QB rating by the media is the lowest of the starting QBs - plus he knows his position as starting QB for this franchise WILL be taken away from him in a heartbeat if he does not show improvement

nobody's saying or intimating that Griffin's improvement is stunning but it's clearly been enough for him to hold the starting QB job ... for now

the starting QB job here is CLEARLY up for grabs - many predicted that Cousins would easily show that he was a better QB than the inept QB that Griffin had clearly become - this has not happened - Griffin seems to have shown the only people that matter, the coaches, who is the best QB

the detractors are just haters and do not want to accept that the coaches know more about a player's potential than they do

Griffin may not prove that he's a good starting NFL QB, but, all he has to do now is show he's better than McCoy or Cousins, that's easy

You actually think by taking potshots at McCoy or Cousins somehow that offends me...good for you.

The poster I quoted had questioned how good Griffin would be if we had someone other than Gruden as the coach. I asked that poster at what point is Griffin held accountable? It's simple.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:that division title in 2012 was just as much (if not more) on Alfred Morris as it was Griffin.

I disagree. It was the threat of Griffin running, that opened things up for Alfred. Look at 2013. Alf's numbers declined with basically the same line and coaches. What changed? In the game against Cleveland (the only game RGIII didn't play), he had his third highest attempts of the season, but his second lowest average yards per carry. I'm not saying that Alf didn't contribute mightily to the division title, just that the driving force behind that success was RGIII.

Ah yes...those games when Griffin essentially was playing on one leg. Clearly a run threat. And I forgot about how well he did against Cleveland that year as well.

Not sure what you are saying here, but if you are referring to the final two games of 2012, RGIII may not have been a running threat against the Smeagols in his first game back, but he clearly was against the Pies, as he ran 6 times for 63 yards and a TD. The point was, Alf clearly benefitted from the threat of RGIII running, so I don't see how you can say he was possibly more responsible for the division title than Bob. One last point: It was Bob who called the players only meeting, and was elected captain, right before the seven game win streak that ended the season.

Deadskins wrote:Not sure what you are saying here, but if you are referring to the final two games of 2012, RGIII may not have been a running threat against the Smeagols in his first game back, but he clearly was against the Pies, as he ran 6 times for 63 yards and a TD. The point was, Alf clearly benefitted from the threat of RGIII running, so I don't see how you can say he was possibly more responsible for the division title than Bob. One last point: It was Bob who called the players only meeting, and was elected captain, right before the seven game win streak that ended the season.

Nevermind, it was all RGIII.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Not sure what you are saying here, but if you are referring to the final two games of 2012, RGIII may not have been a running threat against the Smeagols in his first game back, but he clearly was against the Pies, as he ran 6 times for 63 yards and a TD. The point was, Alf clearly benefitted from the threat of RGIII running, so I don't see how you can say he was possibly more responsible for the division title than Bob. One last point: It was Bob who called the players only meeting, and was elected captain, right before the seven game win streak that ended the season.

Nevermind, it was all RGIII.

Yeah, that's what I said.

Deadskins wrote:I'm not saying that Alf didn't contribute mightily to the division title, just that the driving force behind that success was RGIII.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:are you kidding? he's already been put in his place by many fans and his QB rating by the media is the lowest of the starting QBs - plus he knows his position as starting QB for this franchise WILL be taken away from him in a heartbeat if he does not show improvement - nobody's saying or intimating that Griffin's improvement is stunning but it's clearly been enough for him to hold the starting QB job ... for now

You actually think by taking potshots at McCoy or Cousins somehow that offends me...good for you.

The poster I quoted had questioned how good Griffin would be if we had someone other than Gruden as the coach. I asked that poster at what point is Griffin held accountable? It's simple.

I'm not trying to offend you - IMO Griffin understands what is expected of him - PLUS he knows he will not be the starting QB here 1) if he does not show improvement and 2) if he does not show that he gives this offense a better chance at success than Cousins or McCoy

I may be completely wrong about this kid and I'm starting to think that maybe Snyder is involved with things again