The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This team was a mess when Gruden arrived...He does need to fix the circus feel for this team, with qbs coming & going. I think he's smart enough to get this figured out - with better talent on the roster, which Scot is clearly working on. and more experienced coaches, which Gruden did do hiring more experienced guys, some with Head Coaching or Coordinator experience.

Of course, all the injuries we had last year on Defense were out of his control. On Defense he lost his best DL (Coefield), OLB pass rusher (Orakpo), CB (Hall). Tell me who would do well on D losing the best DL, LB and CB.

Remember, this rebuild was not a one year fix for Scot. We need to assess this team after 2 off seasons...

Advice for RIC -- find a new team to root for. You have nothing good to say, you're unhappy with the owner, President, GM, coach, QB, bloggers, cheerleaders....isn't rooting for a team suppose to fun??? I'd recommend you root for the Pats, they're close to Canada and they're a winning team! In fact, besides inflating footballs, they're damn near perfect!!

KEEP HOPE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

OldSchool wrote:I don't think this a fair statement. You may be right that Gruden thinks Griffin is hopeless but he hasn't said so publicly, The best evidence contradicts this assertion. In 2014 Gruden gave Griffin the starter reps and started Griffin until he got hurt. Despite McCoy performing pretty well in relief of Cousins Gruden opted to start Griffin when Griffin was healthy enough to play. If Gruden had really quit on Griffin don't you think he'd have put his foot down then and said I want to go with McCoy?

There was a lot speculation in the media about Gruden giving up on Griffin but media reports are not necessarily well grounded in reality. When Griffin was healthy he got the starters reps and started. The distribution of starting reps and starting the games when healthy enough to play is most important measurement. Last year Gruden criticized Griffin and did so publicly but maybe Gruden thought he needed to that to get Griffin's attention. After the season Gruden declared Griffin the starter in 2015, it certainly isn't obvious to me Gruden has quit on Griffin.

Well we’ll agree to disagree, I base my opinion on what Gruden says and does, not the media. Remember RG was benched and was healthy…he didn’t come back until McCoy got hurt. Here are a few of his quotes…what coach says these things publicly about their starting QB??

“Robert needs to understand he needs to worry about himself number one and not everybody else. It’s his job to worry about his position, his footwork, his fundamentals, his reads, his progressions, his job at the quarterback position”

“not close to being good enough to what we expect from the quarterback position.”

“it's important to get a lead so griffin doesn't have to do a lot of dropback passing and defense reading.”

*shrug*
I just want another superbowl win.
At one point it was Redskins, Raiders, Packers, and Patriots.
Well, now we're stuck in the same boat with the Raiders.. not a good boat to be in, not at all.
Yes, I'm over the 3 that we have but I do hold the rights to bring it up when arguing with other teams' fans who have 2 and below... especially our NFC East rival the Smeagles.

DEHog - I think the Redskins can go 7-9 or 6-10 and Gruden still has a chance to keep his job ...

This franchise is now (hopefully) managed by guys that know what they're doing - If the improvement is obvious on the field, it does not matter what the record is - everyone connected to this franchise knows that their job is on the line here - Scot has to do well but IMO he's shown that so far - Gruden and all of the players have to show improvement or they are gone

this season is really simple - we get to see guys trying to earn their spot on the roster and there are no more Snyder's favorites

I agree that Gruden was not hired by Scot but at the same time if he shows that he can do the job, Scot will keep him

same for the QBs and every player - you show improvement or you are gone

The win/loss record is not as important as showing considerable improvement - the wins will come in 2016 and 2017


this is still the wait till next year Redskins ... but I think they can get it done if Snyder lets them

SkinsJock wrote:DEHog - I think the Redskins can go 7-9 or 6-10 and Gruden still has a chance to keep his job ...

This franchise is now (hopefully) managed by guys that know what they're doing - If the improvement is obvious on the field, it does not matter what the record is - everyone connected to this franchise knows that their job is on the line here - Scot has to do well but IMO he's shown that so far - Gruden and all of the players have to show improvement or they are gone

this season is really simple - we get to see guys trying to earn their spot on the roster and there are no more Snyder's favorites

I agree that Gruden was not hired by Scot but at the same time if he shows that he can do the job, Scot will keep him

same for the QBs and every player - you show improvement or you are gone

The win/loss record is not as important as showing considerable improvement - the wins will come in 2016 and 2017


this is still the wait till next year Redskins ... but I think they can get it done if Snyder lets them

Of course he does..I'm just saying there's also the chance he doesn't.

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:DEHog - I think the Redskins can go 7-9 or 6-10 and Gruden still has a chance to keep his job ...

This franchise is now (hopefully) managed by guys that know what they're doing - If the improvement is obvious on the field, it does not matter what the record is - everyone connected to this franchise knows that their job is on the line here - Scot has to do well but IMO he's shown that so far - Gruden and all of the players have to show improvement or they are gone

this season is really simple - we get to see guys trying to earn their spot on the roster and there are no more Snyder's favorites

I agree that Gruden was not hired by Scot but at the same time if he shows that he can do the job, Scot will keep him

same for the QBs and every player - you show improvement or you are gone

The win/loss record is not as important as showing considerable improvement - the wins will come in 2016 and 2017


this is still the wait till next year Redskins ... but I think they can get it done if Snyder lets them

Of course he does..I'm just saying there's also the chance he doesn't.

DE's point can't be overlooked. This is Scot's team. His future is tied to the performance of the coach, just as the coach's future is tied to the performance of the quarterback. Gruden looked shell shocked a few times last year. Scot will likely not be happy without seeing some significant indicators that Gruden is actually a head coach, and is not in over his head. I think he's perfectly capable of pulling the eject handle on Jay if he's not satisfied. This is something to watch.

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:DEHog - I think the Redskins can go 7-9 or 6-10 and Gruden still has a chance to keep his job ...
The win/loss record is not as important as showing considerable improvement

Of course he does. I'm just saying there's also the chance he doesn't.

I think we both agree that Jay did not have a very good 1st year - IMO he's going to be here in 2016 if he does not do better

Jay Gruden keeps his job if he shows he's a good HC no matter how many games we win is all I was pointing out




btw - I am not a Jay Gruden fan ... but I could be

Countertrey wrote:

DEHog wrote:Of course he does..I'm just saying there's also the chance he doesn't.

DE's point can't be overlooked. This is Scot's team. His future is tied to the performance of the coach, just as the coach's future is tied to the performance of the quarterback. Gruden looked shell shocked a few times last year. Scot will likely not be happy without seeing some significant indicators that Gruden is actually a head coach, and is not in over his head. I think he's perfectly capable of pulling the eject handle on Jay if he's not satisfied. This is something to watch.

[/quote]

I've got no problem with that, and I totally agree Gruden looked shell shocked at times last year. (Join the freaking club, coach. I probably have the same look sitting on my sofa most Sundays once you get past the beer glazed stupor.)

But DEHog wrote "He’ll have to have a winning record". I don't agree with that at all. I don't honestly expect the team to have a winning record in 2015. McGloughan is a smart guy, I doubt he realistically expects them to have a winning record this year either.

I just think if he doesn't win this year, it's going to be considered...I will concede that there are many variables…the first being who’s available??

Countertrey wrote:

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:DEHog - I think the Redskins can go 7-9 or 6-10 and Gruden still has a chance to keep his job ...

This franchise is now (hopefully) managed by guys that know what they're doing - If the improvement is obvious on the field, it does not matter what the record is - everyone connected to this franchise knows that their job is on the line here - Scot has to do well but IMO he's shown that so far - Gruden and all of the players have to show improvement or they are gone

this season is really simple - we get to see guys trying to earn their spot on the roster and there are no more Snyder's favorites

I agree that Gruden was not hired by Scot but at the same time if he shows that he can do the job, Scot will keep him

same for the QBs and every player - you show improvement or you are gone

The win/loss record is not as important as showing considerable improvement - the wins will come in 2016 and 2017


this is still the wait till next year Redskins ... but I think they can get it done if Snyder lets them

Of course he does..I'm just saying there's also the chance he doesn't.

DE's point can't be overlooked. This is Scot's team. His future is tied to the performance of the coach, just as the coach's future is tied to the performance of the quarterback. Gruden looked shell shocked a few times last year. Scot will likely not be happy without seeing some significant indicators that Gruden is actually a head coach, and is not in over his head. I think he's perfectly capable of pulling the eject handle on Jay if he's not satisfied. This is something to watch.

Yea CT that's really the point I was trying to make.

Scot could let Jay go no matter what but if he does a good job as HC and the team plays well but ends up with 6 or 7 wins, he's still here


Scot may want another HC and could let him go even if he looks fantastic - I just don't see the record as being the reason

Scot is trying to put a franchise together here - he understands that he'll be lucky to be in the playoffs in 2017 no matter who the HC is

Jay is not that bad and he's certainly got a lot to prove to keep his job - he keeps his job as long as everything is better on the field

SkinsJock wrote:Scot could let Jay go no matter what but if he does a good job as HC and the team plays well but ends up with 6 or 7 wins, he's still here


Scot may want another HC and could let him go even if he looks fantastic - I just don't see the record as being the reason

Scot is trying to put a franchise together here - he understands that he'll be lucky to be in the playoffs in 2017 no matter who the HC is

Jay is not that bad and he's certainly got a lot to prove to keep his job - he keeps his job as long as everything is better on the field

6 or 7 wins means 9 or 10 losses. Have you been to Fedex lately? The last game featured 30K fans in blue shouting “Let’s Go Cowboys”. If the Skins don’t play a meaningful game in December this year Gruden will be hard press to keep his job. Snyder will demand it…as I’ve said it will be an easy sell with a new GM who didn’t hire him.

I agree DEHog - Jay could win 9 games and be let go - I'm nor a Gruden fan but I think if he makes it obvious that he's doing a good job as he made it obvious last season that he was not, he should not be let go

but to your point, Scot could listen to Dan Snyder and fire everyone, even if the franchise looks like it's getting better

Dan could also help Scot find a new HC - that would be just great



I'll look forward to watching this franchise fall even further down than it is if Dan tells Scot who to fire and who to hire because of what the fans are doing in December at FedEx Field

Jay Gruden is screwed if he's got to have this franchise playing 'meaningful' games in December 2015 to keep his job

it does not matter what sort of miracle he pulls off with RG3, this franchise needs at least 3 drafts to be able to have a consistently competitive product on the field

we need to find about 5 offensive starters and 7 defensive starters - that will take more than a few months ...



although if Dan Snyder were to take over he could buy those players in the next year - he's had years of experience to build on

1. I hope progress will be enough to keep the staff around.

2. None of us know how authority Scot has or more importantly how autonomy Snyder is going to allow.

3. I doubt deciding to retain or fire Gruden is Scot's decision. Snyder owns the team and has been calling the shots for 17-18 years now, I don't believe news reports that he is letting his staff manage things.

Its obvious Scot M. knows what he is doing. Scot has already helped build two championship caliber teams San Fran and Seattle.
So far I love the moves he has made already as well.
I have full faith in Scot M. as our GM.

Gruden is a whole other story for me. Its his second year but I dont care. Its my team so I dont have time to give newbie coaches time to learn under the job. I want results now!

The sign of a good coach is does he get the most out of his team and coaches?
After last season I think we can all say that he definatley did not do that.
Also his choice on a defensive coordinator sure has me scratching my head.

Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit. They have had a successful defense as well.
Also add in that he does not draft well either. Him and Bruce I cant recall them bringing in a Pro Bowl player either. So his talent evaluation is not good either. I know Bruce got lucky with a couple players while Mike was coach but that was probably mike S. picking the players.

We did not see any improvement last year. All we got last year from Gruden was more drama and a losing season. How does that give me any confidence in him.

Yes the Redskins were a big mess of a team already. So hiring a rookie head coach was probably not the best choice in the first place to fix the mess that is our team.

Back to hope. I am confident in Scot M. and his decisions. Ultimatley its Snyder then Scot. But I am so greatful that we have an actual good football mind in the building.

Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit.

Scot has said that the coaching staff is the HC responsibility. If you were a high profile veteran assistant whould you want to come to DC under a unproven HC??

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden is screwed if he's got to have this franchise playing 'meaningful' games in December 2015 to keep his job

it does not matter what sort of miracle he pulls off with RG3, this franchise needs at least 3 drafts to be able to have a consistently competitive product on the field

we need to find about 5 offensive starters and 7 defensive starters - that will take more than a few months ...



although if Dan Snyder were to take over he could buy those players in the next year - he's had years of experience to build on

I guess I look at differently, if Gruden wins 8 or 9 games that means we are playing meaningful games in December and I don’t see him being let go. As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1! The NFL is set up to rebound pretty quickly. The salary cap structure makes the NFL the league with the most parity we have in sports, small market teams do just as well and have just as many star players as their big market counterparts. Furthermore I just don’t see ‘rebuliding” in the NFL anymore…when was it that the Pats got bad and rebuilt? They only had two players from their previous SB on this year’s SB team…and they won a lot of game in between!! I don’t think it’s too much to ask for this franchise to be playing meaningful games in December. As a fan and a consumer that’s all I really ever ask for. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing a team in a league that set up for parity, out of contention in November

HEROHAMO wrote:Its obvious Scot M. knows what he is doing. Scot has already helped build two championship caliber teams San Fran and Seattle.
So far I love the moves he has made already as well.
I have full faith in Scot M. as our GM.

Gruden is a whole other story for me. Its his second year but I dont care. Its my team so I dont have time to give newbie coaches time to learn under the job. I want results now!

The sign of a good coach is does he get the most out of his team and coaches?
After last season I think we can all say that he definatley did not do that.
Also his choice on a defensive coordinator sure has me scratching my head.

Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit. They have had a successful defense as well.
Also add in that he does not draft well either. Him and Bruce I cant recall them bringing in a Pro Bowl player either. So his talent evaluation is not good either. I know Bruce got lucky with a couple players while Mike was coach but that was probably mike S. picking the players.

We did not see any improvement last year. All we got last year from Gruden was more drama and a losing season. How does that give me any confidence in him.

Yes the Redskins were a big mess of a team already. So hiring a rookie head coach was probably not the best choice in the first place to fix the mess that is our team.

Back to hope. I am confident in Scot M. and his decisions. Ultimatley its Snyder then Scot. But I am so greatful that we have an actual good football mind in the building.

You got a lot of this very wrong.

First you cant expect results in the first year with a team on the level ours is on. In the first year, Gruden had to roll with a lot of the old coaching staff, and a large amount of players that didnt fit his plan offensively. This would be a multi year project I dont care if its Jay Gruden or Bill Belichek.

We actually were going to get a coach from the san fran defensive coaching staff, but vic fangio turned us down due to the drama that is the redskins.

Pretty sure Bruce was in charge of last years draft, and the scouting department that did all the research, has nothing at all to do with Jay.

Breeland may very well be a pro bowl calibre player, so wrong again.

Rookie head coach had some to do with it, but not much. Thing I like though is this year his vision is coming together, and the coaching matches the vision Scot has. Bigger stronger players win games. This year you can begin measuring.

DEHog wrote:I guess I look at differently, if Gruden wins 8 or 9 games that means we are playing meaningful games in December and I don’t see him being let go. As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1! The NFL is set up to rebound pretty quickly. The salary cap structure makes the NFL the league with the most parity we have in sports, small market teams do just as well and have just as many star players as their big market counterparts. Furthermore I just don’t see ‘rebuliding” in the NFL anymore…when was it that the Pats got bad and rebuilt? They only had two players from their previous SB on this year’s SB team…and they won a lot of game in between!! I don’t think it’s too much to ask for this franchise to be playing meaningful games in December. As a fan and a consumer that’s all I really ever ask for. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing a team in a league that set up for parity, out of contention in November

DE you are right and wrong in my opinion. The NFL is setup in a fair way that any team can be competitive given the right people running the show. The Pats is a bad example though. The constants in that are the gm and head coach and tom brady. You have a team that already had a plan that works, and has over their entire dynasty period brought in players they know fits their plan. Once you have that you can cycle players out every 5 years no problem.

The skins though, you had a complete coaching staff that was a failure, and a team with a bunch of players that either just plain arent good enough, or dont fit the new schemes.

So in our case, it is a rebuild. It takes time for players to adjust to new schemes and plays and even training and practicing in different ways. Then it takes time to replace a vast majority of 53 guys with the talent you like and fits what you want to do.

Honestly Jay can keep his job with 5 or 6 wins. If Scot is evaluating him and his coaches, and the players on the field, and sees that the players just arent executing, then Jay stays. Scot knows it takes a few years to accumulate 53 players that can contribute. If he looks and sees that Jay and Crew just arent getting players to produce or making bad decisions with play calling, then they could be gone next year. Time will tell.

I don't think Gruden did a great job last year at all. He actually looked overmatched in the job. But the quarterback situation basically overshadowed any other issues with the team last year, so he got a free year to learn.

To be fair, you need to be patient with a new head coach and give him more than 2 years to see if he can grow into the role. Lots of head coaches had rough first years; Bill Parcells, for example, was 3-12-1 in his first year.

DEHog wrote:

Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit.

Scot has said that the coaching staff is the HC responsibility. If you were a high profile veteran assistant whould you want to come to DC under a unproven HC??

Actually, yeah. You have first chance to impress the owner as the in-house replacement when they fire that unproven HC.

I'm not buying that this franchise can realistically expect to be close to playing meaningful games this season ... maybe in 2016

I did not like the job that Gruden did last season and he's got to do a lot to still be the HC here in 2016
I don't believe the win loss record is as important as Jay Gruden showing that he's a good HC and not just a very good OC

If Snyder does not let this FO and especially Scot have the authority to make all the personnel decisions here (players, coaches & FO staff) then it really does not matter who the HC is or how lucky we get in the draft and free agency

things have changed here, but if Dan Snyder is going to 'help' & make decisions like he used to - we will continue to be bad


it sure is funny how many guys are drinking the same old BS and thinking things are a lot better here

PulpExposure wrote:I don't think Gruden did a great job last year at all. He actually looked overmatched in the job. But the quarterback situation basically overshadowed any other issues with the team last year, so he got a free year to learn.

To be fair, you need to be patient with a new head coach and give him more than 2 years to see if he can grow into the role. Lots of head coaches had rough first years; Bill Parcells, for example, was 3-12-1 in his first year.

DEHog wrote:

Its one thing if a rookie head coach is surrounded by a veteran coaching staff. Yet he chooses another rookie defensive coordinator? Why not opt for one of the former San Francisco defensive staff members who have ties to Scot M.? Would have been a perfect fit.

Scot has said that the coaching staff is the HC responsibility. If you were a high profile veteran assistant whould you want to come to DC under a unproven HC??

Actually, yeah. You have first chance to impress the owner as the in-house replacement when they fire that unproven HC.

That rarely happens in cases where the coach was fired for poor performance, it usually only happens in cases where the previous coach has some successes.

Prowl33 wrote:

DEHog wrote:I guess I look at differently, if Gruden wins 8 or 9 games that means we are playing meaningful games in December and I don’t see him being let go. As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1! The NFL is set up to rebound pretty quickly. The salary cap structure makes the NFL the league with the most parity we have in sports, small market teams do just as well and have just as many star players as their big market counterparts. Furthermore I just don’t see ‘rebuliding” in the NFL anymore…when was it that the Pats got bad and rebuilt? They only had two players from their previous SB on this year’s SB team…and they won a lot of game in between!! I don’t think it’s too much to ask for this franchise to be playing meaningful games in December. As a fan and a consumer that’s all I really ever ask for. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing a team in a league that set up for parity, out of contention in November

DE you are right and wrong in my opinion. The NFL is setup in a fair way that any team can be competitive given the right people running the show. The Pats is a bad example though. The constants in that are the gm and head coach and tom brady. You have a team that already had a plan that works, and has over their entire dynasty period brought in players they know fits their plan. Once you have that you can cycle players out every 5 years no problem.

The skins though, you had a complete coaching staff that was a failure, and a team with a bunch of players that either just plain arent good enough, or dont fit the new schemes.

So in our case, it is a rebuild. It takes time for players to adjust to new schemes and plays and even training and practicing in different ways. Then it takes time to replace a vast majority of 53 guys with the talent you like and fits what you want to do.

Honestly Jay can keep his job with 5 or 6 wins. If Scot is evaluating him and his coaches, and the players on the field, and sees that the players just arent executing, then Jay stays. Scot knows it takes a few years to accumulate 53 players that can contribute. If he looks and sees that Jay and Crew just arent getting players to produce or making bad decisions with play calling, then they could be gone next year. Time will tell.

I don’t see how you can use “the right people running the show” argument to defend that the league is set up to succeed…isn’t that implied?? The Pats are the perfect example of a franchise that has turned over multiple times and been successful….You could add the Steelers, Ravens, and Packers. It’s not the NFL faults that the Skins don’t have “the right people running the show”. I don’t buy –in to the time to adjust to new schemes argument…its football not rocket science. I coach and to be honest I don’t look for players to fit my scheme as much as I try to exploit what they do best...no coach will ever get everyone they want. How long did it take Harbaugh, Arians, Pagano, Kelly, Payton, Fox, Reid, McCoy, Caldwell to win or be competitive ?

DEHog wrote:As for taking 3 draft classes…The NFL didn’t make the Redskins dump contracts leading to a cap penalty or give up 4 picks for 1!

Neither did Jay Gruden.

DEHog wrote:I don’t think it’s too much to ask for this franchise to be playing meaningful games in December. As a fan and a consumer that’s all I really ever ask for. Nothing is more frustrating than seeing a team in a league that set up for parity, out of contention in November

I'm with you on that, man. I'd be curious to know how many years out of the past fifteen this team was completely out of playoff contention by the first week of December. Anybody have that number? I'll bet the number is at least seven.