The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

OldSchool wrote:

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:When RGIII went down last year and Cousins became the starting QB it was then that Cousins had the chance to take over the job outright in my opinion. Cousins did not get the job done so this is why RGIII shoud be the starting QB this coming year. I like Cousins and I was really rooting for him to prove he could get the job done. I think at this point in time it would be in the best interest of the team to deal Cousins before pre season gets here and to let everyone know that this is Robert's team and that he is the man.

So Griffin who played even worse than Cousins should be made the starter so everyone will know he's the man? Do you think there is a guy in on the team that hasn't known Griifin has been the man since 2012? I fail to see how that builds confidence and unity in the locker room.

I agree with you Cousins didn't run away with the job when he had the chance but neither did McCoy or Griffin. By my lights Griffin looked the worst of the 3.

I would expect that from someone who admits he was "biased against Griffin from the very beginning"... So, I guess the question is... What else is new???? .

Countertrey wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:When RGIII went down last year and Cousins became the starting QB it was then that Cousins had the chance to take over the job outright in my opinion. Cousins did not get the job done so this is why RGIII shoud be the starting QB this coming year. I like Cousins and I was really rooting for him to prove he could get the job done. I think at this point in time it would be in the best interest of the team to deal Cousins before pre season gets here and to let everyone know that this is Robert's team and that he is the man.

So Griffin who played even worse than Cousins should be made the starter so everyone will know he's the man? Do you think there is a guy in on the team that hasn't known Griifin has been the man since 2012? I fail to see how that builds confidence and unity in the locker room.

I agree with you Cousins didn't run away with the job when he had the chance but neither did McCoy or Griffin. By my lights Griffin looked the worst of the 3.

I would expect that from someone who admits he was "biased against Griffin from the very beginning"... So, I guess the question is... What else is new???? .

In this case I don't think OldSchool's opinion is clouded by "bias".

RGIII was clearly the worst of the 3 last season. This is evident in many stats --- especially QBR which has been proven accurate.

DarthMonk wrote:I agree with much of what oldschool just had to say however I give Griffin a lot more credit in year one than oldschool does. I would not refer to what they were doing as a high school option offense. I think it was something specifically created by Kyle for Griffin. He was amazing in all facets until he got hurt. I think once he truly got hurt he became gun shy. It took over a year for him to get back to normal and he was looking amazing against the Jaguars and then once again he got hurt. I fear he is doomed to continually being injured. Some will say I have no basis for the following opinion but it is my opinion and I do have a basis for it regardless of anyone's opinion of that: Robert Griffin is injury prone. I have outlined my theory regarding his prone-ness to injury in earlier posts and won't bother again here.

To me what would clearly be best for the team and for all parties involved would be running an open quarterback competition. I believe if we did that Kirk Cousins would win. If we actually had such a competition and Robert Griffin won it fair and square then he would be playing at a high level and I would like that.

I think my big thing here, is in an open competition in Jays offense, most would and should agree Cousins wins, bevause traditionally Jay runs a from the pocket offense. Now, that being said, if Jay plans on modifying his offense to the strength of the QB he chooses, so Griffin gets the read option to setup the defense to be easier for him to throw from the pocket (and if Griffin actually embraces it instead of shuns it like he did with shanahan) vs Cousins running an offense completely out of the pocket, I think Griffin may very well win out.

Dark I kinda agree with you on the injuries, but will add on that its Griffins play style that makes him an injury liability on the field. If he can mentally grasp that he only needs to get the easy yards on the read option plays when he sees them, then he wont be any different than Russell Wilson who has yet to be injured, runs the same type of plays, and is not as physically gifted as Robert... he just knows how to use it better.

^^ mostly agree but notice how Wilson is thicker, gets down more fluidly, and is actually not as athletic and therefore doesn't get himself in dangerous positions as often. That leaping dart against the jags where he dislocated his ankle is a perfect example. Wilson could not have done athletically what Griffin did on that play and would not have gotten hurt - and Griffin didn't even really get hit.

IMO the issue is not Griffin being injury prone; it’s about his ability to protect himself. If you look at his injuries he had chances to avoid them all. He should have stepped out of bounds against Atlanta. He could have gone down in the Baltimore game (which would have helped him avoid the injury in the Seattle game). The Jacksonville game was freakish, he could have stepped out of bounds but he was trying to make a play. I’m not ready to call him injury prone, the bigger issues are his lack of pocket awareness and inability to protect himself which has led to some nasty hits. I’m amazed he hasn’t been hurt more!! He has to understand that he needs to be able to stay on the field to help his team!!

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:When RGIII went down last year and Cousins became the starting QB it was then that Cousins had the chance to take over the job outright in my opinion. Cousins did not get the job done so this is why RGIII shoud be the starting QB this coming year.

I don't know if that's a valid reason why Griffin should be the starter, but I agree Cousins was disappointing last year. He had a legit chance to show what he could do and didn't exactly rise to the occasion.

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:I like Cousins and I was really rooting for him to prove he could get the job done. I think at this point in time it would be in the best interest of the team to deal Cousins before pre season gets here and to let everyone know that this is Robert's team and that he is the man.

I like Cousins too, but that's a terrible reason to trade him. To let everyone know this is Robert's team??

Cousins is an extremely affordable backup QB who has already spent a year in Gruden's system. He's playing behind a QB who has been injured in two of three seasons. He has real value to this team. If the team gets a good offer for him (maybe fourth round pick or higher), but I wouldn't get rid of Cousins just to make RGIII feel better about himself.

there are many that just refuse to look objectively at the choice between Griffin and Cousins - I'm leaning towards (biased if you will) RG3 but I'm not prejudiced against Cousins - Many Cousins supporters are prejudiced and feel that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB - good luck with that

Given that we have a choice I'm leaning towards the guy I think offers more upside - at the same time if Cousins can show that he's a better QB even though he doesn't have the athleticism, more power to him - good luck with that too

I'm looking forward to Jay and Matt (and whomever) making that decision and it will be SOLELY based on which QB they think is better for this franchise going forward to those that are mad about that

Joe T, Sonny or even 'gimpy' Bill would have been better QBs than Griffin or Cousins in 2014 - so get outa here with that logic

riggofan wrote:I like Cousins too, but that's a terrible reason to trade him. To let everyone know this is Robert's team??

Cousins is an extremely affordable backup QB who has already spent a year in Gruden's system. He's playing behind a QB who has been injured in two of three seasons. He has real value to this team. If the team gets a good offer for him (maybe fourth round pick or higher), but I wouldn't get rid of Cousins just to make RGIII feel better about himself.

I agree and I would just add that Cousins should look at how far Griffin has to go to show he can play and how far he (Cousins) has to go - He's a shoe-in for the job .... at least he should think like that

I hope that both QBs really want to be here and want to win the job - anyone that thinks we should just go with Cousins and not go with whomever these guys think should be the QB here, has their heads up their rear end

hopefully both show up and try to show who should be the starting QB here

I know who I think will be the starting QB here because he's the better QB for this franchise going forward

DEHog wrote:IMO the issue is not Griffin being injury prone; it’s about his ability to protect himself. If you look at his injuries he had chances to avoid them all. He should have stepped out of bounds against Atlanta. He could have gone down in the Baltimore game (which would have helped him avoid the injury in the Seattle game). The Jacksonville game was freakish, he could have stepped out of bounds but he was trying to make a play. I’m not ready to call him injury prone, the bigger issues are his lack of pocket awareness and inability to protect himself which has led to some nasty hits. I’m amazed he hasn’t been hurt more!! He has to understand that he needs to be able to stay on the field to help his team!!

I guess what I'm saying is he has a tendency to put himself in bad spots which makes him prone to being injured.

I'm not saying he is unusually brittle or fragile. He's taken many a big hit ... too many ... and often his own fault.

DarthMonk wrote:

DEHog wrote:IMO the issue is not Griffin being injury prone; it’s about his ability to protect himself. If you look at his injuries he had chances to avoid them all. He should have stepped out of bounds against Atlanta. He could have gone down in the Baltimore game (which would have helped him avoid the injury in the Seattle game). The Jacksonville game was freakish, he could have stepped out of bounds but he was trying to make a play. I’m not ready to call him injury prone, the bigger issues are his lack of pocket awareness and inability to protect himself which has led to some nasty hits. I’m amazed he hasn’t been hurt more!! He has to understand that he needs to be able to stay on the field to help his team!!

I guess what I'm saying is he has a tendency to put himself in bad spots which makes him prone to being injured.

I'm not saying he is unusually brittle or fragile. He's taken many a big hit ... too many ... and often his own fault.

I can't or wouldn't argue with that!

SkinsJock wrote:
Given that we have a choice I'm leaning towards the guy I think offers more upside - at the same time if Cousins can show that he's a better QB even though he doesn't have the athleticism, more power to him - good luck with that too

Don’t want to put words in your mouth so I’ll just ask what you mean by this comment. Are you saying RG’s athleticism is what/or will make him a better QB than Cousins??

Im so done with this debate in regards to the media and so forth. RGIII is the starting QB of the Washington Redskins so there is no debate. I support whomever is the starting QB and that is RGIII. The real discussion should be how are they going to protect the QB. It doesnt matter if its RGIII or Cousins IMO that is more important at this point.

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:Im so done with this debate in regards to the media and so forth. RGIII is the starting QB of the Washington Redskins so there is no debate. I support whomever is the starting QB and that is RGIII. The real discussion should be how are they going to protect the QB. It doesnt matter if its RGIII or Cousins IMO that is more important at this point.

I don't blame you to be tired of this discussion and ignore it if you want to but the rest of us will be talking about it until something better comes along because unfortunately it appears Daniel Snyder directed Jay to make Griffin the starter. I don't think the Head Coach agrees with this decision and I doubt the players are enthusiastic about it either but the owner has exercised his prerogative and instructed Gruden to start Griffin. I am going exercise my prerogative as a fan of the team to complain and criticize this decision.

OldSchool wrote:

Skins Fan in Indy wrote:Im so done with this debate in regards to the media and so forth. RGIII is the starting QB of the Washington Redskins so there is no debate. I support whomever is the starting QB and that is RGIII. The real discussion should be how are they going to protect the QB. It doesnt matter if its RGIII or Cousins IMO that is more important at this point.

I don't blame you to be tired of this discussion and ignore it if you want to but the rest of us will be talking about it until something better comes along because unfortunately it appears Daniel Snyder directed Jay to make Griffin the starter. I don't think the Head Coach agrees with this decision and I doubt the players are enthusiastic about it either but the owner has exercised his prerogative and instructed Gruden to start Griffin. I am going exercise my prerogative as a fan of the team to complain and criticize this decision.

We as Skins fans have the right to discuss this. Im talking about NFL Network, ESPN, Yahoo and every other media outlet.

DEHog wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:

DEHog wrote:IMO the issue is not Griffin being injury prone; it’s about his ability to protect himself. If you look at his injuries he had chances to avoid them all. He should have stepped out of bounds against Atlanta. He could have gone down in the Baltimore game (which would have helped him avoid the injury in the Seattle game). The Jacksonville game was freakish, he could have stepped out of bounds but he was trying to make a play. I’m not ready to call him injury prone, the bigger issues are his lack of pocket awareness and inability to protect himself which has led to some nasty hits. I’m amazed he hasn’t been hurt more!! He has to understand that he needs to be able to stay on the field to help his team!!

I guess what I'm saying is he has a tendency to put himself in bad spots which makes him prone to being injured.

I'm not saying he is unusually brittle or fragile. He's taken many a big hit ... too many ... and often his own fault.

I can't or wouldn't argue with that!

Nor would I.

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:
Given that we have a choice I'm leaning towards the guy I think offers more upside - at the same time if Cousins can show that he's a better QB even though he doesn't have the athleticism, more power to him - good luck with that too

Don’t want to put words in your mouth so I’ll just ask what you mean by this comment. Are you saying RG’s athleticism is what/or will make him a better QB than Cousins??

the Redskins staff are not yet as convinced (as some here) that Griffin does not have the talent and ability to be the better QB

they are looking to see if he can be a better QB than Cousins - these guys are not giving up on this project

IMO Griffin has to overcome more (or has more to prove) than Cousins - I feel that his athleticism and his upside is making the decision more difficult - Griffin needs to use his athletic talent more wisely and protect himself better

I think that Cousins can be a good QB but Griffin will prove to be a better QB - he's not there yet but these guys are not giving up on him

SkinsJock wrote:

DEHog wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:
Given that we have a choice I'm leaning towards the guy I think offers more upside - at the same time if Cousins can show that he's a better QB even though he doesn't have the athleticism, more power to him - good luck with that too

Don’t want to put words in your mouth so I’ll just ask what you mean by this comment. Are you saying RG’s athleticism is what/or will make him a better QB than Cousins??

the Redskins staff are not yet as convinced (as some here) that Griffin does not have the talent and ability to be the better QB

they are looking to see if he can be a better QB than Cousins - these guys are not giving up on this project

IMO Griffin has to overcome more (or has more to prove) than Cousins - I feel that his athleticism and his upside is making the decision more difficult - Griffin needs to use his athletic talent more wisely and protect himself better

I think that Cousins can be a good QB but Griffin will prove to be a better QB - he's not there yet but these guys are not giving up on him

IMO his athleticism is one of the reason for him not being able/or wanting to protect himself…he always thinks he can make a play, gives up on the play to quick, doesn’t trust the protection in the pocket, and thinks he can out run everyone. I agree the organization is going to see this through… but unless the parts around him are vastly improved I can’t seeing him as a QB who can carry a team because I don’t see him improving at the position enough this year.

Deadskins wrote:Talk to me in four years, when RGIII is still getting chances after showing no improvement.

See you next year!

Jason Campbell comparison 'laughable' you say? Don't remember this crap?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/f ... over_N.htm

'Elite', 'electric wonder', etc. Same old song and dance.

StorminMormon86 wrote:My main issue with the two sides of the argument is simple: the anti-Cousins side is quick to point out that Kirk has squandered every opportunity he's ever had in a total of 9 games. But Griffin, who has looked a lot worse than Cousins since 2012, continues the Jason Campbell treatment. I'm actually amazed that there aren't more, "best man wins open competition" fans.

Exactly. Cousins doesn't even have a seasons worth of starts. Truth is neither QB has shown the ability to be the man. Both have shown flashes of brilliance but inconsistencies cast a shadow on both.

SkinsJock wrote:Many Cousins supporters are prejudiced and feel that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB - good luck with that

I have yet to see one person state on this message board that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB. Everyone, aside from those who think starting Griffin is the best choice, opts for a full blown open competition and let the best QB of the bunch win.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Talk to me in four years, when RGIII is still getting chances after showing no improvement.

See you next year!

Jason Campbell comparison 'laughable' you say? Don't remember this crap?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/f ... over_N.htm

'Elite', 'electric wonder', etc. Same old song and dance.

What the WTF?!

I can't believe any article would claim Jason Campbell is elite at any point in his Redskins career. I had to double check to make sure it wasn't an Onion article.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Many Cousins supporters are prejudiced and feel that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB - good luck with that

I have yet to see one person state on this message board that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB. Everyone, aside from those who think starting Griffin is the best choice, opts for a full blown open competition and let the best QB of the bunch win.

Yeah right. lol. Everyone? You read any of Old School's posts?

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Talk to me in four years, when RGIII is still getting chances after showing no improvement.

See you next year!

Jason Campbell comparison 'laughable' you say? Don't remember this crap?

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/sports/f ... over_N.htm

'Elite', 'electric wonder', etc. Same old song and dance.

I don't see what that has to do with anything. I told you why the comparison is laughable. Nothing in that article changes that.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:Many Cousins supporters are prejudiced and feel that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB - good luck with that

I have yet to see one person state on this message board that Cousins 'deserves' to be the starting QB. Everyone, aside from those who think starting Griffin is the best choice, opts for a full blown open competition and let the best QB of the bunch win.

Yeah right. lol. Everyone? You read any of Old School's posts?

Try not to.

DEHog wrote:IMO his athleticism is one of the reason for him not being able/or wanting to protect himself…he always thinks he can make a play, gives up on the play to quick, doesn’t trust the protection in the pocket, and thinks he can out run everyone. I agree the organization is going to see this through… but unless the parts around him are vastly improved I can’t seeing him as a QB who can carry a team because I don’t see him improving at the position enough this year.

DEHog - if RG3 does not show an almost unbelievable transformation in the way he plays, he will not be playing QB here for much longer

RG3 is going to be given an opportunity to show that he can read defenses, find the open receiver and take care of himself better on the field - these are all key to his future here and are areas of concern because he was not at all OK with any of them

as far as the offense is concerned - they are in a major rebuild program here - the QB position is Griffin's as long as he can do the things he could not do - he does not need to do much more than that while they build the O line and get things ready for 2017

Cousins can be the starting QB here but he needs to stop doing what he does best - turn the ball over - good luck with that

neither of these 2 QBs are being expected to "carry the team" just yet - we need an O line and other areas fixed first

we're not looking for anything but building the franchise back into a contender for 2017 - EARLIEST

anyone that thinks this franchise is a playoff contender before 2017 is dreaming - not happening

all that Scott and Jay need to do is remake this franchise and determine whether either of these guys can play QB

no pressure, just keep adding young starters - we need about 11 in the next 3 drafts - 4 for the O line and 7 on defense