The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

like the man said - there's a thread for this already ....

I just don't see this as being a big a deal as some - kinda wish he hadn't worded it that way ... but no big deal

SkinsJock wrote:I just don't see this as being a big a deal as some - kinda wish he hadn't worded it that way ... but no big deal

I would agree...maybe not say it at all??

mtruslow wrote:

Prowl33 wrote:Go and listen to the interview yourself. Gruden was more stating that we are going into the offseason with Griffin as the #1 guy.

That is different than "Griffin is going to be the starting quarterback in 2015"

Anytime you hear a news story about the skins hear the exact source first.

Yes, I bungled that. But really, what's the difference between what I said with him being anointed the starter and Gruden saying he's the number 1 guy??? It seems to me that is pretty much been proven he can't do it.

... So, which quarterback proved he can do it? Seems Griffin is as good a choice as any...

I have to say I don't really get this: neither the decision nor the timing on announcing it. What has changed since December aside from McCoy being on the track for free agency? Did Griffin show something that has the coaches believing in him already? Though I am pulling for Griffin to get organized and learn what he needs to learn to become a starting QB, I find it hard to believe he's already shown enough to be named a week one starter. It seemed like that was going to be an off-season long project at a minimum.

I don't understand what the reason might be for publicly making a vote of confidence in Griffin, but let's assume it was important to do so. Why not say that Griffin is the starter going into training camp or something along those lines? Or say something like, we're going to keep our eyes open through the off-season and training camp, but we are moving forward under the assumption that he is our week one starter. That lets you say for the next six months that he's your guy but also leaves open the possibility that another QB could outplay him in camp and preseason.

It just seems to me that Gruden just shouldered a bunch of risk unnecessarily. Even if it was prompted by the powers that be, if Griffin continues to struggle Gruden is the one who will receive the blame. Then again, I do not have his perspective on the team, and maybe he had good reasons for doing this. What those reasons are, however, I can't imagine.

I’ve said it before; Jay Gruden was brought here for one reason…to coach RG!! You can’t tell me that topic # 1, 2 and 3 during the interview wasn't about turning RG into a NFL QB. Far be it for me to defend Snyder, but if that conversation took place Gruden can’t bail on RG in a year… I’m sure Snyder reminds Gruden of this frequently! So that makes yesterday’s announcement by Gruden pretty simple…So why not just say what the enviable is going to be and get it out of the way!

SkinsJock wrote:I just don't see this as being a big a deal as some - kinda wish he hadn't worded it that way ... but no big deal

I'm with you, man. You might be surprised Mike Jones/WaPo shares your opinion!

Getting the nod as the anticipated starter this early in the year means very little.

Someone has to take those first-team reps when offseason practices begin. It might as well be the guy that concluded the year as the starter, the player in whom the franchise has the most invested, and the man with the most crucial questions looming over him.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/foo ... i-the-nod/

None of those QBs showed me anything last year. Who really cares? I think it has dawned on everyone that we need to worry about the trenches. Both sides. If someone is being leaned on now it really is irrelevant. What matters is who gets the job when all is said and done. For short term, it's Robert. Nothing is written in stone yet.

thanx riggo - this gig will be over in a heartbeat if Griffin starts missing receivers - he will not be #1 QB 1 minute after it's clear that he cannot read defenses or see the open guys - hello Kirk ... oh! that's right, Kirk gave up like a wimp ...

Deadskins wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:No.1 draft picks are always annointed as starters. Thats the way its always been. Especially at the QB position.

Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, Bernie Kosar, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Theisman, Brett Farve , Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Donovan Mcnabb, Michael Vick etc...

Several of those guys were not #1 picks, and most didn't start their rookie year. Joe Theismann played in the CFL and returned punt for the Skins as the #3 guy long before he was even made the starter.

That was in the days that you sat your QB to learn before playing. But there was no question that they were grooming him to be the guy. Aaron Rogers also sat behind Brett and Brett sat behind that one dude with the sun block under his eyes.

I remember most of the late eighties and definatley ninties when you sat your QB to learn first. But there was never any question that your no.1 was being groomed to start eventually.

Countertrey wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Here we go again.


Geez Louise..


No.1 draft picks are always annointed as starters. Thats the way its always been. Especially at the QB position.

Joe Montana, John Elway, Dan Marino, Bernie Kosar, Jim Kelly, Troy Aikman, Joe Theisman, Brett Farve , Andrew Luck, Matt Ryan, Donovan Mcnabb, Michael Vick etc...

The day we traded away those picks and chose Robert no.2 overall in the draft he was annointed the starter. Thats the way its always been.

The successful franchises throw full support behind the no.1 rather then drafting a guy in the same draft just in case.

The successful teams put all the necessary players and coaches around the franchise player and then hope to succeed. Everyone has to buy in. Full support behind the no.1 that you chose. Thats the way its always been.

All the experts warned us of this on draft day. Here we are today.

I do think a trade is necessary. Kirk should be traded for as much as we can get. We need to fill our roster up with more talent and go forward with Griffin. Thats why we drafted him in the first place. None of this second guessing. Full support that means shoring up the Oline. Fixing the defense.

Griffin is our franchise player.

Ummm... Your premise is really only true in the first couple of years... At some point, the concept of "sunk costs" must enter the equation. I think there are other (tactical/motivational) reasons for this announcement at this time. I'm sure there is significant frustration that these two, talented, quarterbacks have not moved beyond their "potential".

Until we have a legit Oline and supporting cast. I am not ready to give up on Griffin yet. Both are talented QBs. But thats the problem in the first place. Very few teams can make success of this situation.
The 49ers of the eighties had Montana and Young. But that was a veteran championship team. Montana and Young were not drafted in the same class. Young was brought in as the eventual replacement.

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Countertrey wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Countertrey wrote:Frankly, it sounds to me like Jay is lighting a fire under Cousins...

In what way, exactly? Shouldn't he be doing this for Griffin as well? Naming him the starter is just coddling him.

If he feels that Cousins is the best long term answer, this is an excellent way to test his response to adversity, especially in light of his multiple collapses during games last season. If he rises to the occasion, "WIN". If he doesn't, no harm, no foul.

I suppose so. But I'd get the feeling that, baring some sort of innuendo-conversation between Jon and Cousins, that Cousins would be pretty pissed after this announcement.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Yeah I didn't want to respond to that, but I'm tired of blaming the o-line. They could be better, but Griffin's problem is not the offensive line.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Yeah I didn't want to respond to that, but I'm tired of blaming the o-line. They could be better, but Griffin's problem is not the offensive line.

You are right in that Oline is not all of Roberts problems. You are wrong if you think the Oline is good enough. I mean Scot, Gruden and others know this. Certainly Morris knows this as well. What would it take for you to see that Oline is not just a small problem but huge?

StorminMormon86 wrote:Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Cousins had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do you look at Cousins' [turnover] problems as being on Cousins instead of inventing a conspiracy to shift the blame elsewhere?

I think that most of us have understood for a while that Griffin's problems were not all due to the O line ...

the 2013 offensive line was putrid but it was not the only reason the offense was not effective

hopefully Kirk Cousins is here to show all of us what a good QB he can be - I'm far from convinced ...

hopefully Griffin can show that he's good at reading defenses and finding open receivers - I'm far from convinced

we shall see ...

SkinsJock wrote:I think that most of us have understood for a while that Griffin's problems were not all due to the O line ...

the 2013 offensive line was putrid but it was not the only reason the offense was not effective

hopefully Kirk Cousins is here to show all of us what a good QB he can be - I'm far from convinced ...

hopefully Griffin can show that he's good at reading defenses and finding open receivers - I'm far from convinced

we shall see ...

I agree with all that really. Funny how Scot said the game is won in the trenches by BIG GUYS not small. Both of our QBs would benefit from a second or two longer in pass protect. IMO.

I can't believe Gruden actually said that, what was he thinking?

Snyder is still calling the tunes in Ashburn. The cast of characters coaches and managers receiving 7 figure salaries change periodically but that is a sham Snyder is calling the tunes. Gruden did us a favor by killing any hope that the new GM and he are in charge in Ashburn. No one can convince me that Gruden actually wants to invest the most effort preparing Griffin who he dumped on repeatedly. Whether Griffin whined to Snyder or Snyder decreed this without Griffin pleading for it we don't know but there is absolutely no way Gruden wants it this way. If it was up to Gruden I don't think Griffin would be on the roster now but at best Gruden would give Griffin and opportunity to compete for the job in 2015. There is no way it would be gifted again.

The new GM and a still new coach created some hope for me now that Snyder would say out of it but no chance. February 18 is hope for the season is dead.

This really pisses me off I can't even enjoy false hopes the new GM is going to change things that football men are going to run the team. Snyder is going to be messing up the Franchise for another 20 to 30 years too, I'll be dead before the Skins get a new owner. I'm going to put some time into nurturing an interest in a second team because the Skins are really hopeless.

Deadskins wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Cousins had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do you look at Cousins' [turnover] problems as being on Cousins instead of inventing a conspiracy to shift the blame elsewhere?

Jesus, could you make it anymore obvious that you are a Griffin fan?

No one is excusing Cousins' turnovers. You get the tired, "he got his shot, he sucked" responses. With Griffin it's, "get him an o-line, a competent GM, cooler water in the Gatorade bottles, better head coach, QB coach, faster receivers, better blocking RB's, and a decent offensive coordinator". If you can't see the difference, you're one of the ones who still loves Griffin more than the team.

OldSchool wrote:This really pisses me off I can't even enjoy false hopes the new GM is going to change things that football men are going to run the team. Snyder is going to be messing up the Franchise for another 20 to 30 years too, I'll be dead before the Skins get a new owner. I'm going to put some time into nurturing an interest in a second team because the Skins are really hopeless.

J-E-T-S. Jets, Jets, Jets!!!

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Besides an average to subpar o-line, Griffin had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do we look at Griffin's problems as being on Griffin instead of blaming them elsewhere?

Besides an average to subpar o-line, Cousins had DJax, Garcon, Reed, Morris, etc. last year...at what point do you look at Cousins' [turnover] problems as being on Cousins instead of inventing a conspiracy to shift the blame elsewhere?

Jesus, could you make it anymore obvious that you are a Griffin fan?

No one is excusing Cousins' turnovers. You get the tired, "he got his shot, he sucked" responses. With Griffin it's, "get him an o-line, a competent GM, cooler water in the Gatorade bottles, better head coach, QB coach, faster receivers, better blocking RB's, and a decent offensive coordinator". If you can't see the difference, you're one of the ones who still loves Griffin more than the team.

Yea funny how that works....Interesting to see this years QB draft prospects...One is a spread option guy...the other threw 18 picks...guess which one is going to be drafted first?

DEHog wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Jesus, could you make it anymore obvious that you are a Griffin fan?

No one is excusing Cousins' turnovers. You get the tired, "he got his shot, he sucked" responses. With Griffin it's, "get him an o-line, a competent GM, cooler water in the Gatorade bottles, better head coach, QB coach, faster receivers, better blocking RB's, and a decent offensive coordinator". If you can't see the difference, you're one of the ones who still loves Griffin more than the team.

Yea funny how that works....Interesting to see this years QB draft prospects...One is a spread option guy...the other threw 18 picks...guess which one is going to be drafted first?

... And, how many games did he win?

Let's just pretend that has no relevance. There's Brett Favre throwing picks'-yet still kicking the crap out of the league... And then there's that whole universe of never-heard-from-again players throwing picks.