The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

just a huge waste - nobody could play the QB position behind this line

yup...the battle is in the TRENCHES. We suck in the Trenches. We don't draft well in this area and we pick up lousy free agents in too.

SkinsJock wrote:Jay Gruden has stepped into a complete mess - if this draft was put in the hands of GM AJ Smith, HC Jay Gruden and Presdident Bruce Allen, we'd have a shot at beginning the complete rebuild that this franchise needs
Dan Snyder needs to remove himself from anything to do with who coaches or plays for this franchise
we need to have a team of players on the field who are being coached to play to their capabilities & to execute the game plan together

this Snyder & Allen BS of bringing in the latest 'flash' player or coach (BPA) has got to stop - that's stupid fantasy football stuff

we need a plan and the guys in charge need the full authority to make it happen

Link?

Has it been confirmed that Snyder took over the draft picks last draft?

Either way, I just want Snyder gone. No idea what it would take for him to sell.

Irn-Bru wrote:

yupchagee wrote:We have much more invested in

I assume you're going to say Griffin?

If so, I disagree. The only thing we "invested" were draft picks, but those are gone now and we're back to having first round picks again. Draft picks are not investments, anyway; they are a roll of the dice. If your 6th rounder out-performs your 1st rounder, you start the 6th rounder. Who cares if you use one or three first round picks on a guy. If he can't play, you get rid of him, period.

What else could you be referring to? His salary is nowhere near what elite QBs and first-round picks of old make, so it's not like we're thin in other areas because we're spending so much on our QB. And if we get rid of him in the next year or two it will be a clean break with respect to the salary cap. No problems there at all.

Are we "invested" in that we've built a system and team around him? No. The system we have is basically a generic pro-style offense, and while we have built up a pretty good selection of weapons for whoever plays QB, the WRs/TEs and RBs we've got are going to be good regardless of who's playing.

What's the "investment" you're talking about?

Either Griffin can or can't play QB at a high level. If he can't, then too bad and he needs to go. Keeping him because we used multiple draft picks to acquire him would only compound our error.

(That's assuming that Griffin is done in DC and that we can expect to either have Gruden or Griffin here next year. I don't think either assumption is warranted at the moment, but that's just my opinion.)

I agree with much of this post but to say we have little invested in Griffin is asinine. You could be in Danny's front office with your views on draft picks.

"This team makes you want to pretend that you don’t see what you actually see, hear what you really hear. The worst and the saddest sight of all is the apparently poisoned relationship between Gruden and Griffin. Especially since owner Daniel Snyder will be tempted, given any option, to side with Griffin — at least to the extent that he may insist Gruden and Griffin coexist next year in the same dysfunctional relationship. Bring ’em both back! What could be worse? So, for this team, that’s what will happen."
Tom Boswel, WP

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/re ... story.html

NO HOPE. Daniel Snyder's PRIDE and the sweet talk of Bruce Allen in his ear will FORCE both Jay Gruden and RGIII to co-exist yet another season.

It will not work, of course. But you all seem to fail to understand the "logic" behind ...

This is about finding a SCAPEGOAT.

This disaster is not the result of Daniel Snyder's decision to make the trade with the Rams for the pick. He is not at fault.

This disaster is not the result of Bruce Allen understanding of Daniel Snyder's "logic" for star power, give "football legitimization" to the decision for the trade and his rise in the Redskins organization just like Rasputin did.

This disaster is not the result of the shortcomings of Robert Griffin III. He is just misunderstood and poorly coached ... twice.

This year's disaster and the disaster NEXT year can and WILL be attributed to Jay Gruden. It is just a bit easier to FIRE a HC after TWO abysmal seasons instead of just ONE.

Under this scenario, Daniel Snyder's pride as owner is saved (and his willingness to intervene again in the future). Bruce Allen, the President can escape the responsibility of siding with the owner notwithstanding the fact that his Tampa years brought him to justify most of his actions and he can also STAY as head of the most powerful figure in the organization preventing the possibility of giving any possible control to a true knowledgeable General Manager (an Ozzie Newsome). Robert Griffin also gets at least a year or two to linger around. After all, competition is not really hard against Colt McCoy and Kirk Cousins, is it?

YES, there will be change, just not before the start of next season. Jay Gruden might and he will welcome and enjoy enormously being fired from the most DYSFUNCTIONAL organization in the whole of world sports (Yes, the LA clippers compare favourably against the Snyder Skins). Who would not enjoy an extra 3-year salary on holidays and capable to pay all of his psychotherapy sessions to remove any trauma scars after a 2-year tour of Washington and then enjoy the prospect to coach other teams against and beat Daniel Snyder's team? Other coaches enjoy this pleasure already. Awesome.

A nice quote reminds me of this chronicle announced a year in advance: "plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose" or "the more things change, the more it's the same thing".

Poor Redskins fans. Some still suffering from self-deception, delusion, chest thumping win-or-LOSE valour, defrauded emotionally and economically, incapable to distinguish between rational analysis and eternal unfounded hope.

I admire you and I love you guys. I really do. I love you so much that I almost pity you if it was not for the fact that some of you think that ONLY IF the right coach comes, things will be fine. Obviously, Joe Gibbs II did not teach you ANYTHING.

Me? Not a fan anymore of a Daniel Snyder team. I will not attend a game. I will not watch. I will not pay. I want him to FAIL. I want an empty stadium. I want him BROKE. I want him to be focus of national scorn and ridicule. I want him to REMAIN the laughingstock of the NFL and the world of sports. I want him to PAY economically and socially for all the pain and hurt that he has brought to employees, players, coaches, and mostly true fans and their families. over the last 16 years.

You do not have to join many of us now. You will though. We are patient. We have the best ally one can have in support of our cause: Daniel Snyder.

I don't think Gruden is a quitter, therefore, he is not folding it in (but what do I know?).
It is just sad and pathetic how coaches come here with HIGH hopes and this franchise seems to crush and ruin their dreams.

I like Jay and I hope he succeeds.

thanks RiC - I'm afraid that you're entirely correct - Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen are going to make another HC stay and coach even though he'd rather not be involved with this mess at all ... we really don't have much hope for anything good if these 2 remain in charge


I'm a Griffin fan and I think that Gruden can be a good HC but unfortunately with Dumb and Dumber II that is highly unlikely

IMO Griffin needs to go - I think he's got a better chance at being a good NFL QB than Colt or Kirk but I doubt that's happening here

we're going to need a QB but let's face it we have a lot of issues, not the least of which is we need to draft really well and add some FAs

most importantly, we need a real GM that has full authority to make things right here with ZERO interference from Snyder or Allen

Gruden is a tool.
RG3 is a much higher paid tool.
Gruden is not an NFL head coach.
RG3 might still be an NFL QB.
Coaches don't win games.
Players win games.

It's pretty simple. Gruden either changes his tune and stays, or he's outta there. RG3 is a sometime-idiot, but he endured the Shanahan experience... he deserves a shot to solidify himself as a dependable starting QB. Gruden needs to go be somebody's coordinator - bad hire #75 by Snyder.

^^^

this coming from a fan of the star down in TX...?

This guy probably would have been good for the team, although he's no longer available: http://www.packers.com/team/staff/mark- ... 15333aed42

Or this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Mayhew

SkinsJock wrote:looking at the bad job Gruden has done here the last few weeks - he may be trying to get himself fired

today was another really bad job as HC

I have to admit the past few weeks my attention span has been short while watching the Skins. I did notice that Grudens play calling has gotten worse. It does look like the Washington Redskins are too big for him. IMO
He is a rookie too and this probably isn't the best area for a beginner head coach. The press is ruthless and must be overwhelming. It is a nightmare that I am starting to think he isn't ready for. We can see his talent level and we all know it sucks but, he should be sticking with rolling his QBs out. Never give up on the run even when it isn't working. You have to pound that ball for play action to work. We have gotten worse in the ground game because of the couple of changes on the Oline but got a little better in pass blocking which still sucks.

So it isn't all Grudens fault but he doesn't seem to know how to help. I think he is lost.

Haslett will be the sacrificial lamb at the end of the year.

He doesn't deserve some of the blame people give him, but he definitely needs to be fired if that makes any sense.

Jay Gruden is staying and in a way that is a good thing - this guy inherited a mess that, at the time he was hired, looked, to those of us who are blinded by hope, to not be too bad ...

aside from Trent Williams who can play LT in any scheme the rest of the O line was not put together for this offensive scheme - we also had a secondary that is horrible but is made even worse by an inability to get pressure on the QB without blitzing and blitzing only exposes the secondary even more ...

Jay Gruden deserves another shot here but hopefully the FO (& Gruden) make all the player and coaching decisions - Snyder and Allen need to stay away from this and do whatever it is they're good at ... it is OBVIOUSLY something not involved with hiring NFL personnel

not sure what the real status or prospects are for Griffin but it would seem that despite his obvious upside over Kirk and Colt, if Gruden and Griffin have an issue, then Griffin needs to be let go ... and, we're back to needing a QB

I hope that IF the Redskins use their top pick in the draft they take someone like that safety from Alabama
the best thing would be to try and get as many draft picks as we can

it's like every time we get to December, we realize it's going to take more than another season to fix things - and that's wishful thinking

I glad to hear that Jay will stay.
All the talk about how great Allen was at his previous team (which was it?) blah, blah, blah...... now we find out that Allen really sucks? SMH

tribeofjudah wrote:I'm glad to hear that Jay will stay.
All the talk about how great Allen was at his previous team (which was it?) blah, blah, blah .. now we find out that Allen really sucks? SMH

Bruce Allen has some strengths and he can definitely help this franchise - the unfortunate thing is that we presently have 2 guys involved with what players and coaches to bring in here and neither Dan Snyder or Bruce Allen should be making those decisions

Bruce Allen should remain as the President and we need a real GM in charge of all things to do with what goes on the field

Dan Snyder and Bruce Allen can have input but should not be allowed to make any decisions or to overrule the GM & HC

Kilmer72 wrote:I have to admit the past few weeks my attention span has been short while watching the Skins. I did notice that Grudens play calling has gotten worse. It does look like the Washington Redskins are too big for him. IMO

I don't know man. I just inherently disagree with this kind of observation. His play calling has gotten worse the past few weeks? Like he has forgotten how to coach? He called plays effectively with the Bengals the past two years all the way to the playoffs, but then something happens in DC and he just completely loses his football wits? (I have to admit in DC that actually sounds halfway plausible!)

This continues to be a talent issue. It looks to me like he is trying to move the offense back to a traditional, no gimmick offense capable of competing in the NFL. We just don't have the players right now, especially on the offensive line, to do it, and that isn't going to change this season.

I know one complaint people have had this week is that Gruden hasn't adapted by moving RGIII outside the pocket where he is more comfortable. I agree with the observation to a certain extent. However at the same time people have said repeatedly:
1) Griffin needs to learn how to pass from the pocket
2) Griffin is going to get hurt on these read option, bootleg plays
3) Defenses have figured out the read option

We can't have it both ways. We're just going to have to take our lumps right now.

SkinsJock wrote:Bruce Allen should remain as the President and we need a real GM in charge of all things to do with what goes on the field

I'm dying to know who this football messiah is. Football genius who will operate with total autonomy from Snyder/Allen. This is fantasyland stuff.

As much as we all want rg to be a pocket passer like Luck.. fact is we dont have a line to develop those skills behind.

Even worse, Rg is MUCH more likely to get hurt taking hits behind this oline then he would using his legs- imo of course.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As much as we all want rg to be a pocket passer like Luck.. fact is we dont have a line to develop those skills behind.

True. We should probably fire the coach.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Even worse, Rg is MUCH more likely to get hurt taking hits behind this oline then he would using his legs- imo of course.

You mean like when he dislocated his ankle standing in the pocket against the Jags?

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:As much as we all want rg to be a pocket passer like Luck.. fact is we dont have a line to develop those skills behind.

True. We should probably fire the coach.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Even worse, Rg is MUCH more likely to get hurt taking hits behind this oline then he would using his legs- imo of course.

You mean like when he dislocated his ankle standing in the pocket against the Jags?

I sure hope Gruden doesnt pull a Zorn here.. boy would somenpeople look foolish when others saw that he lacked what the position demands out the gate.

At least if he blew up a limb we can get back to injury prone.. id prefer that over watching him get ragged dolled IN the pocket.. the former at least gives us a shot at victory.

He COMPLETED THAT PASS!!! might I add.. dont know that id attribute the roll out to his injury (stepping wrong can happen getting out of bed like wtf? as much as youd attribute Joey Ts leg to standing in the "pocket". The consistency he gets his staying in the pocket is just common sense an injury is more likely percentage wise.
i get your point. . But getting our qb rag dolled all game has lost its fun to me

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:But getting our qb rag dolled all game has lost its fun to me

Then maybe that QB who cannot execute 3 step drops and five step drops should not be playing then? Because he's responsible for a number of sacks...not the o-line.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I sure hope Gruden doesnt pull a Zorn here.. boy would somenpeople look foolish when others saw that he lacked what the position demands out the gate.

Yeah, yeah. We hear this crap every year. We've had something like sixteen seasons in the past twenty years where we've lost eight games or more. And there's always some brilliant dude like yourself telling us its the coach's fault. Its always the coach. Always gotta get somebody else. Do you realize what a freaking joke that is at this point?

I was talking about Ya boy Colt- ir.

While the line isnt entirely at fault we both can agree.. rb blocks are nearly ALWAYS missed. TEs are used as wrs more then not and cant block any how.
Kirks sack rste was less due to his quick throws to the opposition aswell as a healthier line. This patch work is caca

A five step vs three step losses its purpose when the sack is from up the gut any how smmfh

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I sure hope Gruden doesnt pull a Zorn here.. boy would somenpeople look foolish when others saw that he lacked what the position demands out the gate.

Yeah, yeah. We hear this crap every year. We've had something like sixteen seasons in the past twenty years where we've lost eight games or more. And there's always some brilliant dude like yourself telling us its the coach's fault. Its always the coach. Always gotta get somebody else. Do you realize what a freaking joke that is at this point?

Ya and theres always some tool defending Zorn and then calling for the bingo caller in the same season... like all of us- we just want to be better.

Gruden isnt bad.. but has hit some speed bumps HARD. Hes made things harder imo, but hopefully has learned a ton.

His wideouts running freely will be AWESOME when he has the oline to protect long enough for the qb to hit them.Maybe none of the guys we have at qb are the answer, but ggiving up on games and trying to pass protect for longer then the group is capable isnt impressing me- as a fan- who isnt happy and rightfully so.

Sorry id rather defend rg then gruden.. you can disagree- questionung my brilliant stance is laughable when you discredit it without providing a valid point.

Sure Coaches get the blame all to often here... QUARTER BACKS DO TOO.
We are becoming Cleveland- or more appropriate have BEEN Clevland where good talented qbs get drafted and ruined.
Coach starting over doesnt sound fun either. New system yadda yadda wasted picks.. lets byild the trenches and go from there. Thats alls im sayin. Then we can point to Snyder for all our faults again! :yawn:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

riggofan wrote:

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I sure hope Gruden doesnt pull a Zorn here.. boy would somenpeople look foolish when others saw that he lacked what the position demands out the gate.

Yeah, yeah. We hear this crap every year. We've had something like sixteen seasons in the past twenty years where we've lost eight games or more. And there's always some brilliant dude like yourself telling us its the coach's fault. Its always the coach. Always gotta get somebody else. Do you realize what a freaking joke that is at this point?

Ya and theres always some tool defending Zorn and then calling for the bingo caller in the same season... like all of us- we just want to be better.

Gruden isnt bad.. but has hit some speed bumps HARD. Hes made things harder imo, but hopefully has learned a ton.

His wideouts running freely will be AWESOME when he has the oline to protect long enough for the qb to hit them.Maybe none of the guys we have at qb are the answer, but ggiving up on games and trying to pass protect for longer then the group is capable isnt impressing me- as a fan- who isnt happy and rightfully so.

Sorry id rather defend rg then gruden.. you can disagree- questionung my brilliant stance is laughable when you discredit it without providing a valid point.

Sure Coaches get the blame all to often here... QUARTER BACKS DO TOO.
We are becoming Cleveland- or more appropriate have BEEN Clevland where good talented qbs get drafted and ruined.
Coach starting over doesnt sound fun either. New system yadda yadda wasted picks.. lets byild the trenches and go from there. Thats alls im sayin. Then we can point to Snyder for all our faults again! :yawn:

Yeah started to respond to you earlier. I don't want to get labelled the Gruden "defender". I don't really feel like there is anything to defend at this point. He's coaching a team with a huge number of deficiencies. Its the same reason I wouldn't criticize RGIII for the second half of the Giants game much, the fourth quarter in particular. How good could that guy possibly be with Compton and Polumbus protecting the edges?

I don't really care about this excuse of "coaches get the blame". Most of the people posting on here are fans who spend enough time following the team to know better. Or at least I like to think so!

I know from most of what you post on here that you know the real deal with the team. O-line (and d-line) aren't good enough and have to be fixed. The worst part is that this is the same situation Shanahan walked into five years ago. Ridiculous that we're not much better off there.

I actually look forward to the day where I can start complaining about something Gruden did. To me, that would mean the players on the field are actually competitive.