The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Gruden should definitely be challenged if he continues to play Griffin if he continues to play poorly.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Gruden should definitely be challenged if he continues to play Griffin if he continues to play poorly.

challenged, by who?

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Gruden should definitely be challenged if he continues to play Griffin if he continues to play poorly.

challenged, by who?

Anyone who cares about the Redskins?

DarthMonk wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:Gruden should definitely be challenged if he continues to play Griffin if he continues to play poorly.

challenged, by who?

Anyone who cares about the Redskins?

^ Yeah that.

You can look at the film of most teams in the NFL and see running lanes and wrs running free for touchdowns that are missed at some points in the game. Thats not a good point. The plays work if executed, however the ABILITY of the coach to get his players to effectively make them work is how you measure the coach.

If you spent an entire offseason working on certain plays and you see your qbs still cant see the field, your 3rd down back still cannot pick up the blitz, etc thats on the coach to either bench those weaknesses or call plays that you have coached that are effective with your players.

If Rg3 is that bad like he has spewed to media like an amateur coach he should have had him compete for the job and went with Colt or Kirk day 1 dont wait until the season is over to bench him. What that tell me is he thought he could work magic but didnt do the necessary research on what Griffin needed, to be somewhat successful and failed. If Griffin was never to be then he misevaluated and like I said should have had that gut feeling to do what Pete Carroll did with Flynn in2012.

At the moment we are 3-8. Redskins are not the only team that had to play their backup quarterbacks and with injuries. Im not satisfied with the way we have played collectively and his inability to adjust.

Bruce Arians is winning despite...thats good coaching. Our talent in areas are just as good. Gruden is not winning and overcoming our weaknesses with his coaching. It is natural for fans to have a coach come in thats the anti Shanahan and more of a people person and be blind to coaches faults but
at the end of the day he doesnt look like he is the next young coaching marvel on the block.

DarthMonk wrote:I think this is a completely legit thread.

We must question Gruden along with everyone else. I was concerned when we hired him. I had a feeling the best HC out there was Zimmer. Time will tell.

It seems as an OC, Gruden has put guys in position. It seems like guys are open all the time. However, we have not executed consistently. I'm not sure where I'm at with Gruden but it is possible he is OC material and not HC material. It is certainly worthy of discussion.

I agree

Man, I'm glad the interwebs weren't aroung in Joe Gibbs first year.

Deadskins wrote:Man, I'm glad the interwebs weren't aroung in Joe Gibbs first year.

hah good point!

JSPB - admittedly, after the Joe Gibbs era - we had a board with a lot of posters that had a clue about what's really going on

now that I think about it - we've only been here a little over 10 years and all of it with this twit as the owner

Deadskins wrote:Man, I'm glad the interwebs weren't aroung in Joe Gibbs first year.

Joe Gibbs was willing to ADJUST to the players given to him after starting 0-5 and finished off the season STRONG giving the fans a good feeling for the future. Similar to Marty's year.

You would want to see improvement, adaptation and discipline from Gruden as well. The team as a whole continues to have the same problems game to game as we had week 1.
* slow starts on offense
* poor redzone offense and defense
* blown coverages where opponents are wide open in the secondary.
* poor time management
* lack of identity. Are we a run team, pass heavy...are we zone/blitz/ or man based team on defense? Jon Gruden does not know what we do best and if he do he doesn't stick with it to form an identity.

What players have been benched due to their play on the field this year outside of RG3?

Only thing off the top of my head we have improved upon is Special Teams defense!

I like that he's honest and seemingly straight to his players. I like the fact that he seems player friendly and approachable. Not sure if it was Gruden or Allen but getting the Patriots to come down for a few practices in training camp was an excellent idea. I am not going to grade him on RG3's regression because hey we don't know RG3 may not even be coachable.

mastdark81 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Man, I'm glad the interwebs weren't aroung in Joe Gibbs first year.

Joe Gibbs was willing to ADJUST to the players given to him after starting 0-5 and finished off the season STRONG giving the fans a good feeling for the future. Similar to Marty's year.

You would want to see improvement, adaptation and discipline from Gruden as well. The team as a whole continues to have the same problems game to game as we had week 1.
* slow starts on offense
* poor redzone offense and defense
* blown coverages where opponents are wide open in the secondary.
* poor time management
* lack of identity. Are we a run team, pass heavy...are we zone/blitz/ or man based team on defense? Jon Gruden does not know what we do best and if he do he doesn't stick with it to form an identity.

What players have been benched due to their play on the field this year outside of RG3?

Only thing off the top of my head we have improved upon is Special Teams defense!

I like that he's honest and seemingly straight to his players. I like the fact that he seems player friendly and approachable. Not sure if it was Gruden or Allen but getting the Patriots to come down for a few practices in training camp was an excellent idea. I am not going to grade him on RG3's regression because hey we don't know RG3 may not even be coachable.

All of that is true, but Gibbs wouldn't have been given the time to right the ship with today's 24 hour barrage of news, social media, and internet blogs. Also, although the Skins had experienced some success under Allen and Pardee in the '70s, It's nothing compared to what today's coaches have to live up to. Not to mention, he had Bobby Beathard picking his players, and only had to worry about coaching the team. Not sure what the MNF announcer has to do with anything.

mastdark81 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:Man, I'm glad the interwebs weren't aroung in Joe Gibbs first year.

Joe Gibbs was willing to ADJUST to the players given to him after starting 0-5 and finished off the season STRONG giving the fans a good feeling for the future. Similar to Marty's year.

You would want to see improvement, adaptation and discipline from Gruden as well. The team as a whole continues to have the same problems game to game as we had week 1.
* slow starts on offense
* poor redzone offense and defense
* blown coverages where opponents are wide open in the secondary.
* poor time management
* lack of identity. Are we a run team, pass heavy...are we zone/blitz/ or man based team on defense? Jon Gruden does not know what we do best and if he do he doesn't stick with it to form an identity.

What players have been benched due to their play on the field this year outside of RG3?

Only thing off the top of my head we have improved upon is Special Teams defense!

I like that he's honest and seemingly straight to his players. I like the fact that he seems player friendly and approachable. Not sure if it was Gruden or Allen but getting the Patriots to come down for a few practices in training camp was an excellent idea. I am not going to grade him on RG3's regression because hey we don't know RG3 may not even be coachable.

I'm not sure what you expect from Gruden. If anyone deserves the blame for this team's performance it's Bruce Allan for putting together this dumpster fire of a roster. We have no pass rush on defense, mediocre linebackers, and an abomination of a secondary. Realistically, we have no real playmakers or difference makers on defense. Offensively, we're now playing our third string qb, the offensive line is basically a turnstile, and our 225 pound running back can't get the ball in from the 1 yard line. The only unit on the team that is up to par is the wide receives, but we don't have a qb that can consistently get them the ball. No coach in the world could succeed with this bunch.

Allen is horrible. Outside of DJax, we got ZERO in free agency. He definitely deserves to get more blame.

So.............is Jay Gruden "toast" after today? Perhaps his job is not secure for next year.

Who know what this owner will do next..............

I am hoping that someone is brought in to be the GM and is given the authority to make a plan and find the personnel to fit that plan

Jay Gruden is not a bad HC but he looked lost out there today and if the new GM thinks we can do better then just like everyone else on this roster we need to start heading in a new direction

this franchise is in huge hole right now and needs to find a way out - even if that includes a new HC - Gruden may want out of here anyway, if all the rumors about him being fed up with things here have any weight

everyone on this roster needs to know they're playing and coaching for their jobs and not many are worth keeping

SkinsJock wrote:I am hoping that someone is brought in to be the GM and is given the authority to make a plan and find the personnel to fit that plan

Jay Gruden is not a bad HC but he looked lost out there today and if the new GM thinks we can do better then just like everyone else on this roster we need to start heading in a new direction

this franchise is in huge hole right now and needs to find a way out - even if that includes a new HC - Gruden may want out of here anyway, if all the rumors about him being fed up with things here have any weight

everyone on this roster needs to know they're playing and coaching for their jobs and not many are worth keeping

hmmm.....bailing out would mean that Jay is a QUITTER. I don't think he wants that on his resume.
This fanchise is in a huge hole.....so you say...? LOL, we've been a HUGE HOLE for decades. Why oh why ....?

You down 9-0 and you punter is asked to run nearly 15 yards for a first down in enemy territory? If anything he is suppose to pass the ball or your lead block fb is suppose to take a direct snap. How is Gruden not Zorn at this point?

Offensively Jordan Reed is a WR now over Hankerson or Grant? No sign of DY nor Paulsen...but you want Helu to block instead. Helu has 1 good play its called back and they never run it again. Smh.

I dunno if he's reached the "Send him packing" stage... Yet. But, he certainly looks absolutely clueless at this point! He is throwing out just about anything to see if it sticks. It just starts to look desperate and in total disarray.

hanburgerheel wrote:I dunno if he's reached the "Send him packing" stage... Yet. But, he certainly looks absolutely clueless at this point! He is throwing out just about anything to see if it sticks. It just starts to look desperate and in total disarray.

Its amazing how all of these well regarded coaches come to DC and suddenly forget how to coach.

I just feel bad for him. Washington is where coaches come to kill their careers and reputations.

Glad to see Kyle has been able to clear the stench of failure off him and remember how to coach again.

It must be amazing to be Mike Shanahan, collecting $7m this year, kicked back and laughing his *** off. We were all SO right about him.

Deadskins wrote:All of that is true, but Gibbs wouldn't have been given the time to right the ship with today's 24 hour barrage of news, social media, and internet blogs. Also, although the Skins had experienced some success under Allen and Pardee in the '70s, It's nothing compared to what today's coaches have to live up to. Not to mention, he had Bobby Beathard picking his players, and only had to worry about coaching the team. Not sure what the MNF announcer has to do with anything.

I agree and think that is why smart teams give away very little to the media (at least in an attempt to dodge additional scrutiny from what they already receive without saying anything). Good/seasoned HC, GMs, etc. understand this. Meanwhile in redskins park, everybody offers some sort of sound bite for the media to pounce all over. When NE Pats got crushed by KC and everyone said the dynasty was over, Brady was done, etc., all Behick did was say they were moving on to Cincy. He offered no sound bite or response worthy of a rumorous headline. Because of this, the media had nothing (except to joke about the repetition of the moving on statement) and the attention was directed elsewhere.

As far as your Bethard comment ---- the fact Gibbs had Bethard shouldn't be a knock on Gibbs (and I'm not sure you were saying this). I personally think a smart HC would have a full service GM who scouts and picks players. There obviously should be some communication, but a good GM is the single most important piece to a successful franchise. If a HC decides to take on additional responsibilities, that should be on them --- and many times wearing too many hats can be the cause of failure.

markshark84 wrote:I agree and think that is why smart teams give away very little to the media (at least in an attempt to dodge additional scrutiny from what they already receive without saying anything). Good/seasoned HC, GMs, etc. understand this. Meanwhile in redskins park, everybody offers some sort of sound bite for the media to pounce all over.

Its worse than that though man. We have people actively leaking damaging stories - true or not - to the media here. I suspect that's one of the big issues people have had with RGIII. Its not been any secret that his "camp" has done that in the past. Not that he's alone.

This is one crazy town.

riggofan wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:I dunno if he's reached the "Send him packing" stage... Yet. But, he certainly looks absolutely clueless at this point! He is throwing out just about anything to see if it sticks. It just starts to look desperate and in total disarray.

Its amazing how all of these well regarded coaches come to DC and suddenly forget how to coach.

Glad to see Kyle has been able to clear the stench of failure off him and remember how to coach again.

I don't think they forget how to coach --- I think it is an organizational issue that starts from the owner down. It also has a TON to do with the players we have on the team.
--> You can't win without a QB --- we don't have a QB.
--> You can't win with a decent DEF --- we don't have a good DEF.
--> You can't win without foundational draft picks --- we never have draft picks.
--> You can't win without commitments to OL and DL --- we never have good OL or DLs.
--> You can't win without a firm commitment/support from management --- Danny boy is extraordinarly impatient with HCs and has allowed butt kissing FO figures to push blame on the HCs and not to the people at the root of the issue; those in charge of bringing in talent.
--> You can't win without shared vision --- It is clear Danny boy's ego doesn't permit him to see alternatives outside of his own personal opinions.

As far as Kyle --- I was 100% certain he would be succesful once he left DC. I was skeptical of him going to CLE, but he was able to overcome their issues (honestly, they were probably nothing compared to the ownership crap in DC) and produce. He is a very good OC. He was a good OC in DC. In fact, I thought he even did a decent job last year considering what he was working with.

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:I agree and think that is why smart teams give away very little to the media (at least in an attempt to dodge additional scrutiny from what they already receive without saying anything). Good/seasoned HC, GMs, etc. understand this. Meanwhile in redskins park, everybody offers some sort of sound bite for the media to pounce all over.

Its worse than that though man. We have people actively leaking damaging stories - true or not - to the media here. I suspect that's one of the big issues people have had with RGIII. Its not been any secret that his "camp" has done that in the past. Not that he's alone.

This is one crazy town.

Agree.

And IMHO, that is also a by-product of a lack of respect for the organization and it's people. Why don't you hear leaks in NE --- because people respect Belick and Brady. The players don't respect RGIII or Danny boy (I'm not sure about Gruden). And honestly, they don't deserve it. Respect is earned.

How the players act is a reflection of the values found within an organization. Danny boy is not a classy guy. He is not an ethical businessman. People do as they see, not as they are told. So I don't understand why anyone would expect the franchise to be anything different.

markshark84 wrote:And IMHO, that is also a by-product of a lack of respect for the organization and it's people. Why don't you hear leaks in NE --- because people respect Belick and Brady. The players don't respect RGIII or Danny boy (I'm not sure about Gruden). And honestly, they don't deserve it. Respect is earned.

No doubt. Belichick is in a position to get rid of those guys who don't toe the line also.

riggofan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:And IMHO, that is also a by-product of a lack of respect for the organization and it's people. Why don't you hear leaks in NE --- because people respect Belick and Brady. The players don't respect RGIII or Danny boy (I'm not sure about Gruden). And honestly, they don't deserve it. Respect is earned.

No doubt. Belichick is in a position to get rid of those guys who don't toe the line also.

That is a good point in terms of players knowing they can go crying to Danny if they don't like something. Danny doesn't give authority to anyone other than himself. For example, RGIII basically had the coach fired.

What makes this even worse is that the players don't even respect the guy they go crying to (ie, Danny boy) --- so basically no one in any position of "authority" is respected.....