The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Irn-Bru wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

grampi wrote:You know what? I'm sick of people saying "if Robert looks as bad as he did last week" garbage...people have been saying that for the last two seasons...HE'S NOT GETTING ANY BETTER AND HE'S NOT GOING TO! It's time to pull the plug on the RG3 project!

I'm sick of people randomly reappearing on this board after Griffin either has a wonderful game or a horrendous game.

I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

Let me join you there. StorminMormon kind of nailed it in three sentences.

hanburgerheel wrote:I also agree that the offensive line is pretty bad, but two of the QB's manage to elude sacks and one gets sacked all the time.

Man, this is kind of what I've been getting at talking about the offensive line that past week or two. Something just isn't right with what's going on there. Its not just that the other two QB's are "eluding sacks", they just didn't seem to be under the same duress. Am I wrong on that? To be fair, Cousins was getting rid of the ball super quickly - so quickly that he was throwing a ton of INTs! I kind of suspect that Colt showed the middle ground between Cousins and RGIII. He was sacked more than Cousins, less than RGIII. Probably shows what our o-line is really capable or not capable of.

hanburgerheel wrote:From what I can tell, Kyle Shanahan managed to assemble an offensive scheme that exploited RG3's Baylor greatness. Then he got hurt (which was inevitable).

I was just listening to Kevin Sheehan on the radio today. He said that one of the big problems started with RGIII when Cousins played v. the Browns in 2012. RGIII saw that Cousins was not running the same offense that he was and threw a fit about it. Started refusing to run those plays that had worked for him, etc; Not a story I'd heard before but I thought it was interesting.

hanburgerheel wrote:The defense has talent but lacks coaching. As I already said, Jim Haslett is awful and should never have been here this long.

I agree with you about Haz, but not completely sold that the defense just needs to be coached up better. There may be talent, but which player outside of Ryan Kerrigan on defense has been an honest to god play maker? I like Breeland and Amerson but we have THREE interceptions this year. Need a few more studs for sure.

RGIII is not going anywhere, nor should he. You don't "cut your losses" with a guy who won rookie of the year just 1 1/2 seasons later. So please stop with that talk. Get the guy some go**amn protection and stop trying to MAKE him into a pocket passer. Its like buying a corvette only to take it on runs to the local deli. Let him improvise. Job # 1 has to be to upgrade the line tho, because as someone else said on this thread, if we don't do that, it doesn't matter who we put behind this line.

Griffin stunk last year trying to play in the pocket also it's not just a this year problem, for whatever reason he doesn't have the mental processing skills of Cousins or McCoy. Tired of hearing about 2012 Griffin that's as gone as my teenage waistline. Time to chalk Griffin up as Snyder's megabust and have Robert clean out his locker. it can't happen soon enough.

I'd like to see McCoy play the balance of the season to see what we have in him. I think Cousins might be fixable but having him sit the rest of the year to atone for his interceptions while McCoy auditions the rest of the year makes sense to me. If McCoy runs away with it we have our 2015 starter if not we have a McCoy vs Cousins competition for the job while we focus on improving the defensive backfield and OL. If the defensive backfield and OL are upgraded maybe the Skins can start to improve with McCoy or Cousins under center with the cult of Griffin in the history books. The Skins shouldn't be asking with guy to throw it 35+ times on average like this year, improve the OL so the running game can take the pressure off of the QB's and the defensive. With a better run game and some improvement in the defensive secondary the Skins might get to .500. At any rate I think the Skins should upgrade these units before they worry about franchise QBs, put a game manager on the field and improve the rest of the team in 2015.

PAPDOG67 wrote:RGIII is not going anywhere, nor should he. You don't "cut your losses" with a guy who won rookie of the year just 1 1/2 seasons later.

You do when he's either hurt or plays like crap all the time...and don't give me this garbage that his poor play isn't his fault...even behind this lousy O line he gets opportunities to make plays and yet he doesn't...RG3 is just as bad as the rest of the team...

Some people should really listen to 980 with Sheehan and Loverro. There pretty spot on with their analysis, for the most part. Today for example they went on about Kyle developing a game plan where Griffin had one read before taking off to run, and because of his ability to run, that first read (Garcon) was wide open virtually every time. Which resulted in the ROY and the division title. But that type of offense will only go so far in the NFL. The defenses will either: game plan against it (or "figure it out"), or your quarterback is bound to get hurt. Looks like both of those things happened fairly quickly.

There's just a lot of frustration affecting the thinking of most fans ...

there's no doubt that Gruden needs to get more from his players and coaches but he also has to get more from Griffin - I find it hard to believe that this kid is not going to be a good NFL QB - right now he seems to not be as instinctive or as comfortable running the offense as he needs to be and while a lot of that is due to Griffin some of it also is on the coaches

I hope Gruden keeps getting onto Griffin for what he's doing wrong - the kid will learn from these mistakes

we need a lot of help but I hope we don't need to find a QB as well

SkinsJock wrote:there's no doubt that Gruden needs to get more from his players and coaches but he also has to get more from Griffin - I find it hard to believe that this kid is not going to be a good NFL QB - right now he seems to not be as instinctive or as comfortable running the offense as he needs to be and while a lot of that is due to Griffin some of it also is on the coaches

But you can't keep hanging your hat on the 2012 season. Virtually every analyst (including Kyle himself) has said that in 2012 he implemented an offense very closely resembling the offense Griffin ran at Baylor. It's not an NFL offense. 2013 and now are the first times he has tried to run a traditional NFL offense, with results that leave little to be desired.

I don't think that Griffin's play in 2012 is indicative of the QB that Gruden wants Griffin to be

Gruden is trying to get Griffin to be more of a complete QB and that is a huge part of why he was brought in here as HC

Hopefully for all of us that becomes a lot more likely to happen than what we've seen so far this season


I want to see Griffin more comfortable running the offense than he's been - Gruden needs to make that happen

APPARENTLY Griffin is like a lot of other players on both offense and defense - they're not doing EXACTLY what the coaches want them to

StorminMormon86 wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:there's no doubt that Gruden needs to get more from his players and coaches but he also has to get more from Griffin - I find it hard to believe that this kid is not going to be a good NFL QB - right now he seems to not be as instinctive or as comfortable running the offense as he needs to be and while a lot of that is due to Griffin some of it also is on the coaches

But you can't keep hanging your hat on the 2012 season. Virtually every analyst (including Kyle himself) has said that in 2012 he implemented an offense very closely resembling the offense Griffin ran at Baylor. It's not an NFL offense. 2013 and now are the first times he has tried to run a traditional NFL offense, with results that leave little to be desired.

NOT me - I want Griffin to be an NFL QB, not the QB that was here in 2012

SkinsJock wrote:There's just a lot of frustration affecting the thinking of most fans ...

Maybe. I'm sure that I'm frustrated, but I'm not sure what it is that I'm not seeing clearly here. I'm also not sure why I should find it "hard to believe Griffin won't be a good NFL QB".

StorminMormon86 wrote:

grampi wrote:You know what? I'm sick of people saying "if Robert looks as bad as he did last week" garbage...people have been saying that for the last two seasons...HE'S NOT GETTING ANY BETTER AND HE'S NOT GOING TO! It's time to pull the plug on the RG3 project!

I'm sick of people randomly reappearing on this board after Griffin either has a wonderful game or a horrendous game.

I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

And those three games still leave him one short of two full seasons worth of starts. I can't believe so many are ready to give up on him so quickly. Those people deserve what they get.

riggofan wrote:

SkinsJock wrote:There's just a lot of frustration affecting the thinking of most fans ...

Maybe. I'm sure that I'm frustrated, but I'm not sure what it is that I'm not seeing clearly here. I'm also not sure why I should find it "hard to believe Griffin won't be a good NFL QB".

there's no reason to think he's going to be a good NFL QB - I think he's got too much talent and desire to not succeed

that's just me

teams that have good linemen that played well together, as a unit, have a better chance at success - we do not have that

here's an article for you ... http://espn.go.com/blog/washington-reds ... ont-add-up

Redskins numbers don't add up ...

The Redskins rank sixth offensively at 5.99 yards per play. That’s not far off from their success in 2012, when they led the NFL at 6.17 yards per play. The defense is 19th in yards per play allowed at 5.47.
But situational football matters, too. That’s where the Redskins fall short again -- on both sides. On third downs, they rank 20th defensively (42.1 percent conversions) and 29th offensively (34.4). The latter stems from too many third-and-longs, as well as the overall play at quarterback.

we need that Alabama safety and....

Deadskins wrote:And those three games still leave him one short of two full seasons worth of starts. I can't believe so many are ready to give up on him so quickly. Those people deserve what they get.

If you count the playoff game in 2012, he has had two full seasons.

However, this is a slightly different deal with Griffin, considering the injury. He's still in year three no matter how many games he's played. He has had time to put it this year to show SOME improvement and to prove that 2013 was an abomination and his play was the result of being rushed back too soon. He's yet to do that. It's not just Griffin's play that is alarming. It's the head coach being quick to point out his basic fundamental flaws in a public forum. It's not just some knee jerk reaction from frustrated fans. When the head coach echos the same concerns, that usually means there are concerns that he is "the guy".

One of the reasons Gruden was brought here was to help Griffin - he understands what's at stake

I believe Griffin will get it done

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:And those three games still leave him one short of two full seasons worth of starts. I can't believe so many are ready to give up on him so quickly. Those people deserve what they get.

If you count the playoff game in 2012, he has had two full seasons.

He didn't get a full season last year because he was benched for the final games.

Anyway, don't count me among those who say we need to give up on him. He has six games left this season to show us what he can do. Man I don't even care if we win or not, I just want to see him play like a decent NFL quarterback.

riggofan wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:And those three games still leave him one short of two full seasons worth of starts. I can't believe so many are ready to give up on him so quickly. Those people deserve what they get.

If you count the playoff game in 2012, he has had two full seasons.

He didn't get a full season last year because he was benched for the final games.

Anyway, don't count me among those who say we need to give up on him. He has six games left this season to show us what he can do. Man I don't even care if we win or not, I just want to see him play like a decent NFL quarterback.

I was counting the totality of his starts.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

...and all 3 of those games have been losses.
(The last two may have been avoided by NOT starting Robert.)

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

...and all 3 of those games have been losses.
(The last two may have been avoided by NOT starting Robert.)

I don't disagree with you. Just pointing out that he's only played in 3 games (not counting the Jags game). And he looks identical (or even a bit worse) than 2013. That's alarming.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

...and all 3 of those games have been losses.
(The last two may have been avoided by NOT starting Robert.)

I don't disagree with you. Just pointing out that he's only played in 3 games (not counting the Jags game). And he looks identical (or even a bit worse) than 2013. That's alarming.

It's been more than 3 games, Griffin looked clueless in the preseason games and much too slow upstairs last season as well. He's had enough time to show some modest signs of promise and progress in 2013 and this year and in my view we haven't seen either flashes of promise or signs of progress. It doesn't look like he knows how to read defenses at all.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

REDEEMEDSKIN wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I was never sold on drafting RG3. But it's been 3 games he's played in this year.

...and all 3 of those games have been losses.
(The last two may have been avoided by NOT starting Robert.)

I don't disagree with you. Just pointing out that he's only played in 3 games (not counting the Jags game). And he looks identical (or even a bit worse) than 2013. That's alarming.

It's really only alarming if the coach is seeing the same thing in practice and it's really only alarming if Griffin does not improve

until then, it's just a bunch of fans over reacting and not letting this play out and almost wanting this kid to fail

Gruden (fortunately for us) will keep helping Griffin to become the QB he wants him to be

AND

I guarantee he will not be as quick to find fault with him as some here do

I took Gruden's discussion about Griffin to be constructive and not destructive as some here did

I've never heard a head coach dissect a bad game from a quarterback right in front of the media like Gruden did. I didn't think that was constructive criticism, I think Gruden was putting him in his place.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I've never heard a head coach dissect a bad game from a quarterback right in front of the media like Gruden did. I didn't think that was constructive criticism, I think Gruden was putting him in his place.

to each his own

I think Gruden was making a point - I think Griffin's words needed clarifying - I think Griffin fully understands his coach and is not bothered by what was said at all because he knows and agrees that what Gruden said was exactly right

IMO Griffin is desperately trying to be the QB that Gruden and MacVay want him to be and the QB that he himself wants to be - he is struggling and trying to make things happen and that is what is leading to these basic mistakes like taking a 3 step drop and looking for a receiver and then realizing they are running routes designed for a 5 step drop

bad mechanics can be fixed and IMO that would be the best thing for the Redskins and Griffin - so I'll hope for that

Having Griffin show that he can be a good NFL QB is a big worry but we have a lot of issues to resolve and IMO we need to do do a better job of adding players that make the other players better - we cannot be adding players like we did recently with the O line and then find that they are marginal at best

I'm not making excuses for Griffin - this franchise needs him to be the QB he can be and that is what I prefer to think will happen - we also need to see better effort from the coaches and players - they are for the most part letting the team down

"We need to add better players" is not a good enough answer. How many elite players are we going to be able to add this off season, seriously? Maybe ONE top notch free agent if we're lucky and a first round pick. Is that enough?

In the meantime, RGIII is entering year four of his contract and we still won't know for sure if he's capable of being our QB long term.

This is why I'm saying we need to be evaluating Griffin honestly now and quit deflecting talking about how bad our safeties are or whatever. And I'm not even talking about judging him by wins/losses this season. He can play well and we can still lose a game because our defense is freaking horrible. If RGIII had gone out on Sunday and just put in an AVERAGE performance like he did v. the Vikings it would have been better than what he showed vs. the Bucs.

Personally, I'm not going to watch six more games like we saw Sunday and be on here talking about how we need to give him more time to develop because he's a good athlete. That is not good enough. At this point in his career, he should be 100x better than what we saw last weekend.

SkinsJock wrote:it's really only alarming if Griffin does not improve

until then, it's just a bunch of fans over reacting and not letting this play out and almost wanting this kid to fail :shock:

Sad, but true.