The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

OldSchool wrote:No, I think it would be foolish to draft another QB because Cousins may develop. I am convinced Griffin is a ridiculous bust that isn't worth keeping but but Kirk is mentally quick and might develop into a good. Maybe he won't but It would be smart to give him at least another season and focus on the defense. I think the Skins should concentrate on improving the secondary that is awful, really pathetic. Use the 1st, 2nd and third picks to bolster the pass defense.

Noooo, not you too. I thought you were a big time RG3 supporter. I would have never have guessed. I am just blown away

Kilmer72 wrote:

OldSchool wrote:No, I think it would be foolish to draft another QB because Cousins may develop. I am convinced Griffin is a ridiculous bust that isn't worth keeping but but Kirk is mentally quick and might develop into a good. Maybe he won't but It would be smart to give him at least another season and focus on the defense. I think the Skins should concentrate on improving the secondary that is awful, really pathetic. Use the 1st, 2nd and third picks to bolster the pass defense.

Noooo, not you too. I thought you were a big time RG3 supporter. I would have never have guessed. I am just blown away

You're kidding, right? My sarcasm meter is admittedly broken today, so just wanted to check*.

Oldschool only posts when Griffin has done something that can be construed negatively (correctly or erroneously) or when Kirk Cousins does something that can be construed as proving that he's better than Griffin (corr... erroneously). You can almost set your watch by it. This is also why he's made 3 posts since Cousins played true to form against the Giants (STOP: "True to form" means wildly inconsistent in his play from one half or one game to the next, being a bit too easily rattled by game situations, and throwing too damn many pics. Nothing more.) and disappeared like Keyser Soze.

*Just kidding, I know you were being sarcastic.

Your meter should have been off the charts. Come on emoses14. You should know better than that.

It's not time. We have talent at QB and many other positions, and some obvious areas of weakness. With a good enough team surrounding him, we have a QB that could lead a Super Bowl campaign.

A different QB, unless he's Peyton Manning, isn't going to change much about the above facts. Our QB is not the bottleneck to our success.

Irn-Bru wrote:It's not time. We have talent at QB and many other positions, and some obvious areas of weakness. With a good enough team surrounding him, we have a QB that could lead a Super Bowl campaign.

A different QB, unless he's Peyton Manning, isn't going to change much about the above facts. Our QB is not the bottleneck to our success.

Totally agree. Watching Wilson last night, its hard not to be impressed by him. But at the same time, the team surrounding him is so rock solid and well built. I don't see even Russell Wilson being any more successful in DC than RGIII or maybe even Kirk Cousins.

No!

Its time to upgrade the Lines, the O-Line and D-Line need serious work.

No QB will make up for a porous O-Line and no Offense will make up for a weak defense.

We need the Hogs reborn, a line that can tear open some holes for our Running backs to plow through for 4 yards or more per carry.

We need to force teams to stack the box to stymie our run game and then we can throw over their heads for huge gains

emoses14 wrote:Sorry, there's no amount of heat he's getting that isn't 100% justified. There's no way to spin all of that, collectively. He is a moron. A moron with more than questionable decision making processes. He has made it impossible to point to any ulterior motive for how he's being talked about at this point.

I agree 100%.

Just curious, but why do people keep writing about our "porous o-line" this season? We've allowed 1.8 sacks per game to date (last year that number was 2.7). Which is oddly the same number that Dallas has allowed with its highly praised, three first rounders offensive line. 1.8 is middle of the pack in the NFL this year and ahead of New England, Arizona, KC, Green Bay, San Francisco, Chicago, etc;

Not saying we have a great line - and I'm sure you could dig into those numbers more looking at QB pressures or whatever. Its just looked to me so far this year like the line needs to be doing a better job in the run game, opening up holes for Morris rather than having problems with being "porous".

Thoughts?

riggofan wrote:Just curious, but why do people keep writing about our "porous o-line" this season? We've allowed 1.8 sacks per game to date (last year that number was 2.7). Which is oddly the same number that Dallas has allowed with its highly praised, three first rounders offensive line. 1.8 is middle of the pack in the NFL this year and ahead of New England, Arizona, KC, Green Bay, San Francisco, Chicago, etc;

Not saying we have a great line - and I'm sure you could dig into those numbers more looking at QB pressures or whatever. Its just looked to me so far this year like the line needs to be doing a better job in the run game, opening up holes for Morris rather than having problems with being "porous".

Thoughts?

I understand what you are saying, but much of the reason for the 1.8 sacks/game is due to Cousins' superfast release. People can say a lot of things about Cousins, but no one can deny he has a quick trigger. I also have come to believe Gruden designs quick passing plays due to our inability to protect the QB.

We also need depth at OL. Case in point: http://www.rantsports.com/nfl/2014/10/06/morgan-moses-misses-block-kirk-cousins-gets-mauled-by-cliff-avril/ . TWilliams seems to get hurt every game, our RT is not adequate. We have 2 below average OGs. I am good with Licht at C. The big question I had regarding the infamous Morgan Moses play: why didn't Compton come in at RT? Moses is LITERALLY (and I mean this 100%) the worst OT I have ever seen in the NFL. He was horrendous in preseason and worse (if that could even happen) in real games. The very fact he made the team shows what bad shape we are in OL-wise.

Personally, I think our greatest needs are OBVIOUSLY on the defensive end, but quality OTs are gone by the mid-second round (if that). Quality DEs are gone by the end of the 2nd or mid-3rd depending on draft depth. You can get a quality DB/CB via FA or in the mid-rounds (like Sherman) if you are smart and have a good front office. I am of the belief we will have a pick in the 3-7 range (but, of course, a total guess so don't go killing me for a prediction), giving us 3 VERY good, impact player selections with the 3-7, 35-39, and 67-71 overall picks. A combination (depending on round and "best available" at the time of pick) of OT, PASS RUSHING DE (although I'd like some size to him -- without sacraficing speed -- like 280+; and yes, I know that is hard to come by), and DB would be nice with those picks. We could also try to sign another CB via FA (or swap the draft DB, sign CB scenario). If we were able to upgrade at the DE, DB, and CB positions as well as get a quailty DC, our DEF would improve fairly significantly IMHO. I honestly think that Breeland and Amerson are good SUPPLEMENTAL players, but they can't be relyed on consistently. We need a guy that can hang with top receivers.

With our current front office, I'd be hesitant to draft a DE in the first only because a player's success at DE is reliant on a number of factors outside their immediate control (and skill). A mediocre DE can appear very good and drum up solid stats due to scheme, support, talent on other end of DL, OFF play calling, college conference, schedule, even weather... I don't have the confidence in our front office to understand true value at the position and be meticulous enough to see thru the murkiness of DE evaluation. IMHO, it is one of the most difficult positions to grade. OT, on the other hadn, is a MUCH easier position to grade out -- as are CB and DB. That being said, I'd much prefer we draft a DE. FA signings like Haynesworth, Stubbfield, Wilkinson, Jason Taylor, Bruce Smith, Carriker, and Daniels (off the top of my head; I'm sure there are more) still haunt me.

markshark84 wrote:Moses is LITERALLY (and I mean this 100%) the worst OT I have ever seen in the NFL. He was horrendous in preseason and worse (if that could even happen) in real games. The very fact he made the team shows what bad shape we are in OL-wise.

Man that guy was a third round pick! I hope you're wrong about that!

There was some stuff written in the WashPost early on in training camp about Moses struggling and that fans shouldn't expect him to take over for Polumbus any time soon. Actually I think there's an interesting thread on here somewhere with some posters claiming the Post didn't know what the hell they were talking about. lol. I gotta find that.

So yeah, I'm sure you're right about Cousins' quick release or whatever, but if teams aren't getting to our QB can we really call the line "porous"? I just haven't really seen that. I think I've even seen an actual POCKET for Cousins occasionally.

Either way there's no doubt that we can and need to get better on the line. And we definitely need more depth.

I'd try to really improve the defensive backfield first we give up too many points and upgrading the Dbs would probably help the team the most so I'd use the top picks on defense.

Like Welch and others have pointed out already. We have two capable Qbs already.

We should build a formidable Oline and Dline. Ive been trying to say this for years now. Many of us already know this. Shanahan tried to build an Oline. Shanahan brought us Trent Williams who is a Pro Bowl left tackle. So at least we dont have to worry about left tackle. But we definatley need to fill out the rest of the Oline and some depth. But first lets get some quality starters.

We need a better offensive line, I hope we draft a right tackle in next years draft. QB is the least of our concerns, we already have two QBs who seem like they could develop in to elite QBs (keyword being could). I don't think anyones watching the Seahawks game last week and thinking "Man, if the Skins just had a better QB they'd be great!" Cousins was one of our best players Monday night.

That asessment of Moses is a little harsh based on the amount of time he's been with us. I hope this isn't based off of one snap in which he clearly got crossed up on what the snap count was against Seattle.

PAPDOG67 wrote:That asessment of Moses is a little harsh based on the amount of time he's been with us. I hope this isn't based off of one snap in which he clearly got crossed up on what the snap count was against Seattle.

It isn't based off that one snap, but it did exacerbate my already low opinion of Moses. He looks lost and confused out there --- sort of like he lacks confidence.

And with OL, you can tell fairly soon whether they are going to transition quickly into the NFL. I don't see him being someone that would evolve into a solid starter --- and honestly, that is the hope with 3rd rounders. I could very well be wrong; he has been injured the majority of the season and only played 6 snaps against SEA so that may have been the reason--- but from what I've seen, he doesn't move well laterally, his footwork appears slow, and doesn't seem aggressive in nature. Great OL have a "chip", an inherent toughness, a grittyness --- almost as if they live for the trenches. I don't see that in Moses, but he literally played 6 NFL snaps (outside of preseason). The jury is still out, but if I were a GM, I wouldn't be optimistic to put it mildly.

I agree with your points made there. Tough to gage his toughnes on only 6 snaps, but I know what you're getting at. As far as the lattarel movement thing, you may be right, but if that's the case, we can always move him inside to OG.

Key point to remember about this team: Redskins Rookies get exposed!

What do I mean? Because of the depth issue, we have year after year more rookies coming in to play important roles they are not yet ready for in the games. You would think it could make them stronger, but I think they form bad habits in an effort to overcome impossible situations and then get their confidence crushed. It's the anti-player development approach. Not sure how we can flip the switch on this as our veterans now were those same rookies only a few years ago.

Ideally we would have players getting limited time in their first two years and being in their prime fitness and skill level to take over as a starter by Year 3. I am not sure how often this happens with the Skins. We either buy a developed player to fill a hole or are forced to start a rookie. The combination = more losses than wins.

No.

Time to rebuild the Hogs. Then see what Griffin can do.

welch wrote:No.

Time to rebuild the Hogs. Then see what Griffin can do.

Good, this thread is settled, then.

Irn-Bru wrote:It's not time. We have talent at QB and many other positions, and some obvious areas of weakness. With a good enough team surrounding him, we have a QB that could lead a Super Bowl campaign.

A different QB, unless he's Peyton Manning, isn't going to change much about the above facts. Our QB is not the bottleneck to our success.

How do you feel about this post now?

Salt in the open wound, man.

emoses14 wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:

funsho2 wrote:i think all these winston media coverage is due to racism....

Racism? Not a Heisman trophy winner accused of sexual assault? Or screaming obscenities on campus? Yeah you're right it's racism. Also must be a racist motive behind the constant media coverage of Manziel, too.

Yes, the Big R is out there more than a lot of people are comfortable admitting (yes, it is). Yes, there are those (in the media, too) who don't like Winston because he's black. No, the heat he is taking for his ATROCIOUS decision making has nothing to do with racism. I'm even giving a pass to those using that ATROCIOUS behavior as a cover for their racism. Why? Because, you simply do not:
1. Beat an allegation of rape that was so bungled by campus/local police, their decision not to press charges actually makes it worse for you than better
2. Steal (I don't care if your story is you forgot you hadn't paid for them. Remember!) $30 some odd dollars of crab legs from a grocer
3. Jump on a table in the middle of the student union and shout "[4 letter word for have relations] her right in the [word for cat]" in front of many, many people (and their cell phone recording devices) and
4. Lie to your damn coaching staff about it ALL WHILE:
5. Being the most recognizable face on a college campus, hell in an entire town with its own heightened scrutiny outside of all of the above.

Sorry, there's no amount of heat he's getting that isn't 100% justified. There's no way to spin all of that, collectively. He is a moron. A moron with more than questionable decision making processes. He has made it impossible to point to any ulterior motive for how he's being talked about at this point.

1. Did you read the facts of that case....if you read you will realize that the girl gave 4 different stories...and she said she drugged but yet toxicology report shows no drugs.....and how can somebody who rape you give u a ride home afterward on his scooter

2. He forgot to pay for crag legs....BIG DEAL...

3. yea a college student screaming vulgar words....SHOCKING!

Espn and all other media are trying to ruin this guy career.....God forbid the guy sneezes.......

The thing is that ...you know you are really good when everybody wants you to fail.....Fact is Jameis is the best qb in the draft...if we can get him...we get him....

you're not paying attention ...

we do not have a plan - it does not matter who we draft while we have Dan Snyder making decisions

are you guys for real or just dreaming?

Dan Snyder is not drafting a loser like Winston ...

funsho2 wrote:1. Did you read the facts of that case....if you read you will realize that the girl gave 4 different stories...and she said she drugged but yet toxicology report shows no drugs.....and how can somebody who rape you give u a ride home afterward on his scooter

2. He forgot to pay for crag legs....BIG DEAL...

3. yea a college student screaming vulgar words....SHOCKING!

Espn and all other media are trying to ruin this guy career.....God forbid the guy sneezes.......

The thing is that ...you know you are really good when everybody wants you to fail.....Fact is Jameis is the best qb in the draft...if we can get him...we get him....

Your argument would be more valid if there wasn't 24/7 coverage of everything Manziel does.

It's not racism. It's targeting a huge college prospect and pointing out his flaws. Did the same thing with Ryan Mallet. And Leinhart. And Leaf.

StorminMormon86 wrote:

funsho2 wrote:1. Did you read the facts of that case....if you read you will realize that the girl gave 4 different stories...and she said she drugged but yet toxicology report shows no drugs.....and how can somebody who rape you give u a ride home afterward on his scooter

2. He forgot to pay for crag legs....BIG DEAL...

3. yea a college student screaming vulgar words....SHOCKING!

Espn and all other media are trying to ruin this guy career.....God forbid the guy sneezes.......

The thing is that ...you know you are really good when everybody wants you to fail.....Fact is Jameis is the best qb in the draft...if we can get him...we get him....

Your argument would be more valid if there wasn't 24/7 coverage of everything Manziel does.

It's not racism. It's targeting a huge college prospect and pointing out his flaws. Did the same thing with Ryan Mallet. And Leinhart. And Leaf.

Not true...I don't think manziel had this much scrutiny....Espn wants the SEC to be top and they see florida state as a threat.....just the other game the guy try to move to the ref out of the way.....espn and co were calling for winston to be suspended......