The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

SkinsJock wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote: Gruden called a great game except for one thing. One throw down field beyond 5 yards? Seriously? With our receivers?
Actually, I want to change this to two things. The other was the rookie time management at the end of the half. Geez, he has to be smarter than that.

Kaz - I think that Gruden has to give some thought to the fact that while he and Sean are trying to help Griffin become better at both reading defenses and staying in the pocket more ... with this O line, Sean and Jay need to come up with a better game plan that forces defenses to at least be worried that Griffin might use his legs

I think we made the Texans defense look a lot better than it really is by not getting more out of Morris and at least looking like we might run the read option a couple of times - that pass rush looked awesome against that horrible O line

So when we actually went deep once in the whole game allowing them to crowd the line of scrimmage, your solution is another play that allows them to do that? Good thinking on that...

2 turnovers in the red zone ... a blocked punt for a TD ... blocked extra point ... trouble with pass protection ... these are not a good recipe for a win.

RG3 still looks confused .... and it appears to me that he's not getting the ball out of his hands fast enough on some plays. Whether that is a product of slow decision making or slow developing plays, clearly, the offense isn't fine tuned enough to overcome critical mistakes.

As for the positives, the defense kept pace ... don't know if that's attributable to good defense or poor offense from Houston.

Seems like the same old sad story ... different season, new staff, same problems. Pass pro, red zone woes, and special teams gaffs.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:My take aways-
We are the best in the biz at abandoning the run, WHEN ITS WORKING! Does coach NOT know that Al is one of the best rbs in the league? Second only to AP since being drafted- and led the league in yards after contact last year!!

Pretty sure that was Kyle's fault.

I really love fans who watch the first game of the season, a fairly close 17-6 game against a solid defense and come away with: RGIII is a bust. Really insightful analysis.

RayNAustin wrote:2 turnovers in the red zone ... a blocked punt for a TD ... blocked extra point ... trouble with pass protection ... these are not a good recipe for a win.

RG3 still looks confused .... and it appears to me that he's not getting the ball out of his hands fast enough on some plays. Whether that is a product of slow decision making or slow developing plays, clearly, the offense isn't fine tuned enough to overcome critical mistakes.

As for the positives, the defense kept pace ... don't know if that's attributable to good defense or poor offense from Houston.

Seems like the same old sad story ... different season, new staff, same problems. Pass pro, red zone woes, and special teams gaffs.

I don't think Robert looked all that bad considering lack of time on many plays. Except for the blocked kicks and DY tackling our own, ST did look improved. Defense would have done even better if they weren't gassed after the first half. I
was impressed with them except I expected more hurries on their QB.

So I was on the road yesterday and had to listen to the game. It was an XM broadcast from Texas too which was kind of horrible.

I watched the game again at home last night on the DVR. The one thing I was kind of surprised about was that RGIII looked better live than what I was imagining from the radio. I don't agree with everything SkinsJock has to say about RGIII, but I do agree that he (and the coaching staff) really seem to be committed to having him play the traditional QB position rather than anything gimmicky.

I don't like to react too strongly to week one games whether we win or lose. Not the start we wanted, but it wasn't the 2013 week 1 game v. the Eagles either. Two red zone fumbles and a terrible special teams mistake killed us. Oh, and JJ Watt. Hopefully we'll bounce back for Jacksonville next weekend.

Our line sucks. Our offense can't move the ball unless Morris or Helu are running. Stupid BS call by the refs saying Roberts was out of bounds. Niles Paul needs to go. Polumbus blows. Three passing plays over 5 yards were called. That's ridiculous. Helu didn't even bother to block. On the plus side, our punter Way pleasantly surprised me.

It is clear there are many areas to work on, so this week I want to see improvement and a good place to start would be to hold on to the dam ball and run..run and run the ball untill they stop you.

markshark84 wrote:There were 3 issues offensively that I attribute to what I consider a horrible performance:
1. As someone who was at the game, the thing I noticed was the amount of WRs RG3 missed or didn't identify as being open. Desean and garçon (on downfield routes) were getting open and RG3 didn't hit them even when he had time.
2. The OL was overmatched
3. Play calling was atrocious. The fans actually started predicting the plays before the snaps. The offense was HIGHLY predictable. Now I see why the Cincy fans I know (one of which is very connected to the organization) weren't too concerned with gruden's departure.

All three of these things are very alarming.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

grampi wrote:I don't think RG3 is doing anything to make this team better. For some reason, they have taken his running ability out of the offensive play calling altogether. I don't know if it's because he isn't able to run anymore, or if it's just because they don't want to risk him getting hurt...either way, this offense without the threat of RG's running ability is not good. In fact, if this is the type of play calling we're going to see from now on, we'd be better off with KC. RG has a strong arm, but he throws a lot of off balance passes that end up as incompletions or INTs, and he's not good at all at reading Ds...from what I saw yesterday, RG looks exactly the same as he did last year, which is not good at all...I just hope management doesn't wait until we're 0-8 before they decide to make the switch....I think RG is a bust!

Blah, blah, this thread is for fans of the team who want to be realistic, it says so in the title. You're neither, you are no fan and you're not realistic. Dumping on the team ignoring everything good is no different than hyping it up ignoring anything bad.

BTW, they invented something called television since your day. You don't have to listen to the game on the radio anymore, you can watch it and see how wrong you are.

The statements provided by Grampi were honestly the overwhelming sentiment in the stadium on Sunday in Houston. I am currently 50-50 on RGIII (which changed from a 100% all in mostly based on what I saw yesterday), but found myself suppporting him as if he was my own brother after hearing all the negative comments from people at the game.

So based on your response, I am not sure what you mean by "realistic". My guess is that you personally dislike him and therefore discount what he posts, but hope this is not accurate; especially considering there is some validity to what Grampi posted based on the facts and stats from yesterday's game. Grampi said that RGIII isn't doing anything to make this team "better" --- this is actually supported by his 29.6 QBR (a stat created to determine whether the QB "contributed" to scoring and winning the game). He also played a very similar style game to last season --- he didn't run and the majority of this passes were very very short (RGIII attempted 14 passes at or behind the LOS and his average completion was 3.7 yards downfield; out of 37 attempts). They have also taken his running ability out of the game plan, he only had 3 attempts -- when he averaged 6.6 LAST year and 8 the year prior. I am not sure what he means by "balance passes" so I can't comment on that and I disagree with Grampi that RGIII throws a good deal of INTs. Whether RGIII can or cannot read defenses is really a judgement call; but from what I saw at the game yesterday from a very very good vantage point; he missed open receivers --- but was also pressured a TON --- again, your opinion will depend on how you want to convince yourself....

And I'm not sure how many "positives" came out of that game. We put up 6 points and lost to the worst team in football last year. We continued to be horrible on special teams, couldn't score, made a TON of mistakes that cost us, our OL was manhandled, our offensive playcalling was lackluster, we didn't use our offensive weapons properly, we didn't expose our opponents clear weaknesses, etc. etc. etc. Defensively there were some positives, but, again, HOU may be one of the worst offenses in the NFL this season.

Whlie I do think RGIII can come back from this, I think any rational person would not consider his sentiments to be grossly "unrealistic". And from the comments I heard yesterday from non-redskins fans I consider non-hostile and football informed, I would actually argue that the majority of non-redsksin homer fans like us would agree with what Grampi is posting.

RayNAustin wrote:2 turnovers in the red zone ... a blocked punt for a TD ... blocked extra point ... trouble with pass protection ... these are not a good recipe for a win.

How bout them Terps? Six turnovers and we won. Wow.

As for the Skins, the good part is that we have improved. Two red zone fumbles, a blocked punt for a TD, and we weren't that far from winning. The path from sucking to greatness travels through mediocrity, and we may just be there...

markshark84 wrote:My guess is that you personally dislike him and therefore discount what he posts

Stopped reading here. Let's have a guy conversation where we talk about what happened and what people said and what we think about what they said. Not how we feel. I have a wife for my girl conversations. I appreciate your offer to discuss my emotions, but I'll pass. Thanks anyway.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:My guess is that you personally dislike him and therefore discount what he posts

Stopped reading here. Let's have a guy conversation where we talk about what happened and what people said and what we think about what they said. Not how we feel. I have a wife for my girl conversations. I appreciate your offer to discuss my emotions, but I'll pass. Thanks anyway.

lol.

StorminMormon86 wrote:Our line sucks. Our offense can't move the ball unless Morris or Helu are running. Stupid BS call by the refs saying Roberts was out of bounds. Niles Paul needs to go. Polumbus blows. Three passing plays over 5 yards were called. That's ridiculous. Helu didn't even bother to block. On the plus side, our punter Way pleasantly surprised me.

This is just garbage reaction. I can't even call it analysis. Our offense put up 267 receiving yards and 131 rushing yards, so clearly we CAN move the ball. And its straight retarded to write "Our line sucks" after we rushed for 131 yards.

Clearly they had their hands full with JJ Watt, one of the best d-linemen in the league. That also accounts for why they had to rely on the short passing game. It was a good game plan, and we moved the ball better than Houston did.

Yeah it sucks that we lost. But we lost because of two bad turnovers and one godawful ST play. We played "ok", but we're not nearly a good enough team to turn the ball over three times.

RayNAustin wrote:2 turnovers in the red zone ... a blocked punt for a TD ... blocked extra point ... trouble with pass protection ... these are not a good recipe for a win.

RG3 still looks confused .... and it appears to me that he's not getting the ball out of his hands fast enough on some plays. Whether that is a product of slow decision making or slow developing plays, clearly, the offense isn't fine tuned enough to overcome critical mistakes.

As for the positives, the defense kept pace ... don't know if that's attributable to good defense or poor offense from Houston.

Seems like the same old sad story ... different season, new staff, same problems. Pass pro, red zone woes, and special teams gaffs.

Again, Ray, we are on the same page more or less. While I believe our OL wasn't great ---- the playcalling was set up for quick passing routes with little protection using a spread offense formation. In the majority of situations, HOU was bringing in their front 3 and an additional 2-3 LBs/DBs on each play -- generally coming straight up the gut. RGIII, on many plays, was supposed to be throwing quick, timing patterns. Sometimes they wouldn't develop, but I found he held onto the ball longer than I remember him doing so in previous years.

One of the things I did while watching the entire game was (1) try to determine which options were 1, 2, 3, etc. prior to snap, (2) look downfield at open receivers within the first 4 seconds post-snap/completion of route or at WR break, etc., (3) count the time from snap to throw/pressure applied. I was forutnetely able to do this because I was at the game and had the vantage point to do so --- and wanted to take advantage of the opportunity. First and foremost, I found was the playcalling was highly predictable -- in that I was able to easily ID the WR options prior to snap and predict 1,2,3 with decent consistency (I said this in another post, but I wasn't the only one in the stadium able to do so). I concluded there were about 15 (but not more than 20) plays that, after going thru steps 1 and 2, above, I found open receivers that RGIII either didn't identify or decided on another, shorter route, option. The remaining 15-20 were either (1) set plays that RGIII ID a downfield receiver (e.g., Nile Paul and the throw in Q1 where the WR (can't remember who) was WIDE open but RGIII threw OOB --- and he was wide open for a W-H-I-L-E), (2) the play didn't required RGIII to ID WRs downfield (e.g., screen passes) or (3) pressure was applied to the point I concluded it would be unfair to consider the play as an opportunity for RGIII to throw downfield. I was a bit disappointed in these numbers, but was more disappointed in the playcalling.

I also agree that RGIII looked confused. In retrospect, I honestly think the Shanahans did a good job of creating a playbook for RGIII. Kyle is a very good OC; he did a good job in HOU, did a very good job in DC (based on the circumstances), and is showing to be solid in CLE. Gruden is coming in with something vastly different --- a style RGIII is not used to. He looks confused because of this and it is yet to be determined whether he can be successful in this type of O.

As far as our D, I agree that they looked decent, but HOU's O is horrible.

Agree, new staff, same problems. What people fail to understand is that the REAL problem is ownership. Everything starts at the top. Ownership has to hire a quality FO; a quality FO has to hire quality coaches and players; quality coaches have to implement quality schemes; quality players have to execute quality schemes. There is LITERALLY only 1 thing that has NOT changed in all these years of suffering: OWNERSHIP.

markshark84 wrote:Agree, new staff, same problems. What people fail to understand is that the REAL problem is ownership. Everything starts at the top. Ownership has to hire a quality FO; a quality FO has to hire quality coaches and players; quality coaches have to implement quality schemes; quality players have to execute quality schemes. There is LITERALLY only 1 thing that has NOT changed in all these years of suffering: OWNERSHIP.

So why bother? We're not getting a new owner.

You wrote a lot of interesting opinions on problems with the offense yesterday otherwise. I'm not sure how or why your big conclusion on what's wrong with the offense ended up with: Dan Snyder.

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

markshark84 wrote:The statements provided by Grampi were honestly the overwhelming sentiment in the stadium on Sunday in Houston. I am currently 50-50 on RGIII (which changed from a 100% all in mostly based on what I saw yesterday), but found myself suppporting him as if he was my own brother after hearing all the negative comments from people at the game.

So based on your response, I am not sure what you mean by "realistic". My guess is that you personally dislike him and therefore discount what he posts, but hope this is not accurate; especially considering there is some validity to what Grampi posted based on the facts and stats from yesterday's game. Grampi said that RGIII isn't doing anything to make this team "better" --- this is actually supported by his 29.6 QBR (a stat created to determine whether the QB "contributed" to scoring and winning the game). He also played a very similar style game to last season --- he didn't run and the majority of this passes were very very short (RGIII attempted 14 passes at or behind the LOS and his average completion was 3.7 yards downfield; out of 37 attempts). They have also taken his running ability out of the game plan, he only had 3 attempts -- when he averaged 6.6 LAST year and 8 the year prior. I am not sure what he means by "balance passes" so I can't comment on that and I disagree with Grampi that RGIII throws a good deal of INTs. Whether RGIII can or cannot read defenses is really a judgement call; but from what I saw at the game yesterday from a very very good vantage point; he missed open receivers --- but was also pressured a TON --- again, your opinion will depend on how you want to convince yourself....

And I'm not sure how many "positives" came out of that game. We put up 6 points and lost to the worst team in football last year. We continued to be horrible on special teams, couldn't score, made a TON of mistakes that cost us, our OL was manhandled, our offensive playcalling was lackluster, we didn't use our offensive weapons properly, we didn't expose our opponents clear weaknesses, etc. etc. etc. Defensively there were some positives, but, again, HOU may be one of the worst offenses in the NFL this season.

Whlie I do think RGIII can come back from this, I think any rational person would not consider his sentiments to be grossly "unrealistic". And from the comments I heard yesterday from non-redskins fans I consider non-hostile and football informed, I would actually argue that the majority of non-redsksin homer fans like us would agree with what Grampi is posting.

Stopped reading here. Let's have a guy conversation where we talk about what happened and what people said and what we think about what they said. Not how we feel. I have a wife for my girl conversations. I appreciate your offer to discuss my emotions, but I'll pass. Thanks anyway.

One sentence out of a 4 paragraph post full of FACTS and STATS to support an alternative opinion --- of course you of all people would focus on the most irrelevant sentence in an effort to weasel your way out of the conversation....... I apologize that I provided too many facts about WHAT HAPPENED to dispute your opinions. I know you hate that.......

Like a child, you literally made a stupid comment and before someone could respond, covered your ears and started yelling LA LA LA LA LA LA..... Nice work.

Another example of you only wanting to read things you agree with. I guess that is what you mean by "realistic".... which obviously couldn't be further from reality

Nice try though.

6 points in 4 quarters. Whoo-hoo!

The Snyder Era is one long tragedy. I've been a fan since I was a young boy in the 1970's. I'm just getting to the point that I don't wanna waste my Sundays on this perpetual disappointment.

hanburgerheel wrote:6 points in 4 quarters. Whoo-hoo!

The Snyder Era is one long tragedy. I've been a fan since I was a young boy in the 1970's. I'm just getting to the point that I don't wanna waste my Sundays on this perpetual disappointment.

Did you notice we weren't doing so well after the 91 season and before Snyder? We all know Snyder screwed up. Snyder knows it, I know it, you know it we all do. Maybe it was Snyders fault too the John Kent Cooke failed.

Let's look at it for what it is. I'm the same generation as you and we had the 70s, we had the 80s and one last hurrah in the 90s. We did squeak into the playoffs a few times under Snyder and once under John Cooke on his way out (sort of his team).

Snyder is letting other handle things these days. If he sold the team who would be the owner to take us to the promised land?

riggofan wrote: ... Our offense put up 267 receiving yards and 131 rushing yards, so clearly we CAN move the ball. And its straight retarded to write "Our line sucks" after we rushed for 131 yards.

Clearly they had their hands full with JJ Watt, one of the best d-linemen in the league. That also accounts for why they had to rely on the short passing game. It was a good game plan, and we moved the ball better than Houston did.

Yeah it sucks that we lost. But we lost because of two bad turnovers and one godawful ST play. We played "ok", but we're not nearly a good enough team to turn the ball over three times.

You know what - I'll go along with this ... but everyone, coaches and players, need to show a lot more this coming Sunday

Kilmer72 wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:6 points in 4 quarters. Whoo-hoo!

The Snyder Era is one long tragedy. I've been a fan since I was a young boy in the 1970's. I'm just getting to the point that I don't wanna waste my Sundays on this perpetual disappointment.

Did you notice we weren't doing so well after the 91 season and before Snyder? We all know Snyder screwed up. Snyder knows it, I know it, you know it we all do. Maybe it was Snyders fault too the John Kent Cooke failed.

Let's look at it for what it is. I'm the same generation as you and we had the 70s, we had the 80s and one last hurrah in the 90s. We did squeak into the playoffs a few times under Snyder and once under John Cooke on his way out.

Snyder is letting other handle things these days. If he sold the team who would be the owner to take us to the promised land?

Snyder is letting others handle things? You're funny!

I just referred to the "Snyder Era", as in the last 15 years, as being one long tragedy. I'm not blaming one guy for everything at all. I'm just using that term to refer to the "era" of when they have been the biggest disappointment from my memory. I am "looking at it for what it is"... it's entertainment and it's not entertaining anymore. It hasn't been for a long time. I'm also pretty sick of gimmicks and crap-shoots to create a viable football team.

markshark84 wrote:

One sentence out of a 4 paragraph post full of FACTS and STATS to support an alternative opinion --- of course you of all people would focus on the most irrelevant sentence in an effort to weasel your way out of the conversation....... I apologize that I provided too many facts about WHAT HAPPENED to dispute your opinions. I know you hate that.......

Like a child, you literally made a stupid comment and before someone could respond, covered your ears and started yelling LA LA LA LA LA LA..... Nice work.

Another example of you only wanting to read things you agree with. I guess that is what you mean by "realistic".... which obviously couldn't be further from reality

Nice try though.

I don't like him? That undercut any analysis you did. It's a pretty heavy girl accusation you made and then brushed off. I'm glad you're in touch with your feminine side, but just leave that BS out if you want to hang out with guys and talk football. Seriously.

I was disappointed even before the "Snyder Era" and during. What can you do? Either you watch and root for them or not.

SkinsJock wrote:

riggofan wrote: ... Our offense put up 267 receiving yards and 131 rushing yards, so clearly we CAN move the ball. And its straight retarded to write "Our line sucks" after we rushed for 131 yards.

Clearly they had their hands full with JJ Watt, one of the best d-linemen in the league. That also accounts for why they had to rely on the short passing game. It was a good game plan, and we moved the ball better than Houston did.

Yeah it sucks that we lost. But we lost because of two bad turnovers and one godawful ST play. We played "ok", but we're not nearly a good enough team to turn the ball over three times.

You know what - I'll go along with this ... but everyone, coaches and players, need to show a lot more this coming Sunday

I totally agree with what you're saying, man. Its not just that we need to "not turn over the ball three times" either. We really need RGIII to be more than just "ok". We need some other guys to make some big plays. And personally I'd like to see us come out there and play with some confidence like we expect to win the game.

Either way, there were 14 other teams that lost in week one. Some of them lost in much worse fashion, lost key guys to injury, and a lot of them have much higher expectations than our team does. I'm just not ready after one week to start crying that everything about our team sucks, is terrible and its all Dan Snyder's fault.

hanburgerheel wrote:6 points in 4 quarters. Whoo-hoo!

The Snyder Era is one long tragedy. I've been a fan since I was a young boy in the 1970's. I'm just getting to the point that I don't wanna waste my Sundays on this perpetual disappointment.

So don't. Maybe you can find another sport where your team always wins.

I swear its the same people who scream until they're red in the face about how they'll defend the Redskins name and the great tradition that they've known since they watched the team whup the Cowboys on their grandpappy's knee who wake up on Monday morning after the first game of the season and start crying about everything that sucks about the team.

Football season is back man, freaking enjoy it. The team didn't win yesterday, but they didn't embarrass themselves either.