The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

I have to say that I am tired of seeing this topic written about every day in the sports page, and also hearing about it every week during Redskins games. I've heard many arguments from both sides, and all of the arguments are bad.

On the one hand, simply saying "That's offensive" does not constitute an argument. When someone says to me that they're offended by what I say, I immediately respond with "What's your point?" All arguments stand on their merits. You don't get to eight-ball someone's entire argument just because you don't like one particular word or phrase within the statement.

Now, on the other side of the debate, saying that it's tradition, and that "If they change the name of the Redskins, they should also change X team's name too" is also a failed argument. Mike Ditka, you're definitely doing it wrong.

The only argument that should be made for those who want to keep the name is CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!

Words have no meaning until you put context behind them. That is the point of language! Is it offensive if I call a banana a kike? How about if I refer to a bicycle as a spic? Does any of this offend you? No, because when you apply racial slurs to objects rather than people, the word loses it's meaning. The same thing applies when it comes to the Washington Redskins.

Words evolve over time. For example, the word fag originally meant a bundle of sticks, which is why in England they call a pack of cigarettes fags, because it looks like a bundle of sticks. Later down the generations, someone decided to call a homosexual a fag, and then all of a sudden we have an offensive term for gay people.

With that said, I could take any word and suddenly make it offensive, if I apply offensive context to it. Let's use the popular candy Kit-Kats. If I were to suddenly go up to an Asian person and start saying things like "Hey you Kit-Kat! Yeah, I'm talking to you! Why don't you go back to your own country you stupid Kit-Kat? You Kit-Kats make me sick!" That Asian person would first wonder why he's being called a Kit-Kat, but he would also feel somewhat offended, simply because of the angry and racist tone in which I'm using it in.

It is very offensive to call an American Indian a redskin, which is why no one does it. But is it just as offensive to call a professional sports team redskins? No, because the context has completely changed.

It is deeply disappointing to see that people's self-esteem is so low that their psyche and confidence can be broken into pieces simply by hearing words that they don't like to hear. It truly shows the lack of intelligence in people today.

If you keep chanting "The name is racist, the name is racist" like a f***ing mantra, then it becomes racist, but for the wrong reasons. It becomes racist because they're beating "It's racist" into your head like a drum, which is not how you convince someone that a statement is true. The fact that people, who never cared about the name before, are suddenly coming out of the woodwork claiming that they suddenly see the name as racist, again shows the lack of intelligence in people today. They've been thoroughly convinced by hearing the mantra repeated over and over again.

Now to address the American Indians who find the name offensive. If you are offended by the word redskins, then you should stop calling yourselves redskins. You aren't being addressed as redskins from anyone outside of your own delusional minds. When we say Redskins, we aren't talking about you, so you should mind your own business.

One more time, the only argument that should be made for keeping the name is to speak about context. There's no need to need to talk about sensitivity, tradition, hypocrisy, liberals or political correctness (I'm looking at you Ditka ).

I think I've covered just about everything that's been bothering me lately about this "controversy." So in conclusion, keep the name and HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

^^ thank you - it's all about the context ...

fabe wrote:I have to say that I am tired of seeing this topic written about every day in the sports page, and also hearing about it every week during Redskins games. I've heard many arguments from both sides, and all of the arguments are bad.

Me too. So let's quit talking about.

Btw I totally agree with your last sentence there. I've heard many arguments from both sides, and all of the arguments are bad.

fabe wrote:I have to say that I am tired of seeing this topic written about every day in the sports page, and also hearing about it every week during Redskins games. I've heard many arguments from both sides, and all of the arguments are bad.

On the one hand, simply saying "That's offensive" does not constitute an argument. When someone says to me that they're offended by what I say, I immediately respond with "What's your point?" All arguments stand on their merits. You don't get to eight-ball someone's entire argument just because you don't like one particular word or phrase within the statement.

Now, on the other side of the debate, saying that it's tradition, and that "If they change the name of the Redskins, they should also change X team's name too" is also a failed argument. Mike Ditka, you're definitely doing it wrong.

The only argument that should be made for those who want to keep the name is CONTEXT, CONTEXT, CONTEXT!

Words have no meaning until you put context behind them. That is the point of language! Is it offensive if I call a banana a kike? How about if I refer to a bicycle as a spic? Does any of this offend you? No, because when you apply racial slurs to objects rather than people, the word loses it's meaning. The same thing applies when it comes to the Washington Redskins.

Words evolve over time. For example, the word fag originally meant a bundle of sticks, which is why in England they call a pack of cigarettes fags, because it looks like a bundle of sticks. Later down the generations, someone decided to call a homosexual a fag, and then all of a sudden we have an offensive term for gay people.

With that said, I could take any word and suddenly make it offensive, if I apply offensive context to it. Let's use the popular candy Kit-Kats. If I were to suddenly go up to an Asian person and start saying things like "Hey you Kit-Kat! Yeah, I'm talking to you! Why don't you go back to your own country you stupid Kit-Kat? You Kit-Kats make me sick!" That Asian person would first wonder why he's being called a Kit-Kat, but he would also feel somewhat offended, simply because of the angry and racist tone in which I'm using it in.

It is very offensive to call an American Indian a redskin, which is why no one does it. But is it just as offensive to call a professional sports team redskins? No, because the context has completely changed.

It is deeply disappointing to see that people's self-esteem is so low that their psyche and confidence can be broken into pieces simply by hearing words that they don't like to hear. It truly shows the lack of intelligence in people today.

If you keep chanting "The name is racist, the name is racist" like a f***ing mantra, then it becomes racist, but for the wrong reasons. It becomes racist because they're beating "It's racist" into your head like a drum, which is not how you convince someone that a statement is true. The fact that people, who never cared about the name before, are suddenly coming out of the woodwork claiming that they suddenly see the name as racist, again shows the lack of intelligence in people today. They've been thoroughly convinced by hearing the mantra repeated over and over again.

Now to address the American Indians who find the name offensive. If you are offended by the word redskins, then you should stop calling yourselves redskins. You aren't being addressed as redskins from anyone outside of your own delusional minds. When we say Redskins, we aren't talking about you, so you should mind your own business.

One more time, the only argument that should be made for keeping the name is to speak about context. There's no need to need to talk about sensitivity, tradition, hypocrisy, liberals or political correctness (I'm looking at you Ditka ).

I think I've covered just about everything that's been bothering me lately about this "controversy." So in conclusion, keep the name and HAIL TO THE REDSKINS!

Great post! Unfortunately they will change the name hearing only (as you stated) bad arguments from both sides... shame you cant represent us and help keep the name for real...

riggofan wrote:Wow, that's a really surprising post from Mike Ditka.

Real football is here. I'm not going to even think about this name "debate" for the next four months. Waste of time and energy. Quit feeding it.

Ditka is a pretty scary dude when he's mad. We should hire him to "speak" with the WaPo columnists...I'm sure he will cause much loss of bodily function controls

I agree that this is a worthless topic, and an argument created by very unhappy, very vocal extreme liberals. Unfortunately, I believe they will ultimately have their way on this one. If and when that day comes, however - and for as long as I live afterwards - they will ALWAYS be the Redskins to me. No one and nothing can take that from me.

This is actually driving me to buy more merchandise with the logo and name prominently displayed for when that day comes. The bigger the redskins on it, the better.

Im seeing on facehook that the he Save the Name efforts are taking a stand and hitting the opposition where it hurts most.... in their wallets!!!

Boycott from what I gather include Amazon and the Washington post.. apparently they are owned by the same company? Anyone know why the post would be the main target to boycott? I mean F it & F them!! No skin off my back those reports are usually backward ass interviews that get thrown in a blnexer to get some hidden message done by lousy writers with an agenda.
Anyone else hear about it? Time we join hands and fight back some how, ya??

There are several Facebook pages you can visit. Native American Redskins Fans, Save The Washington Redskins, and others. Basically they are people who are sick of the crap and aren't going to take it anymore. I'm a member of several pages and do what I can to help get the facts out. It is hard because the enemy we are fighting is using every authoritarian tactic in the book. But honestly, as long as Dan is the owner, the name is not changing. Nor should it.

emoses14 wrote:This is actually driving me to buy more merchandise with the logo and name prominently displayed for when that day comes. The bigger the redskins on it, the better.

One of the things people noted when the trademark ruling was made is that it could very well have defeated the purpose of suppressing the team name. Since now (pending appeal) anyone can make and sell merchandise with REDSKINS written on it, the likely practical effect is that we will see more instances of it and that the brand awareness will increase.

FLWSkin wrote:There are several Facebook pages you can visit. Native American Redskins Fans, Save The Washington Redskins, and others. Basically they are people who are sick of the crap and aren't going to take it anymore. I'm a member of several pages and do what I can to help get the facts out. It is hard because the enemy we are fighting is using every authoritarian tactic in the book. But honestly, as long as Dan is the owner, the name is not changing. Nor should it.

For sure.. im a member of countless groups too.. just wondering where to take the fight I guess.. like boycott the post and Amazon was thrown out there just dont know why. Ive already cut ties with both tho. I think with this site and network there within, we could find a way to support the cause in our efforts to #SaveTheName

Irn-Bru wrote:

emoses14 wrote:This is actually driving me to buy more merchandise with the logo and name prominently displayed for when that day comes. The bigger the redskins on it, the better.

One of the things people noted when the trademark ruling was made is that it could very well have defeated the purpose of suppressing the team name. Since now (pending appeal) anyone can make and sell merchandise with REDSKINS written on it, the likely practical effect is that we will see more instances of it and that the brand awareness will increase.

Actually, the trademark battle is a moot point due to federal laws. Under federal law the trademarks and emblems are still protected and the consequences of unauthorized replication iss just as severe if not more so. Not that its ever stopped anyone before justt sayin the team is still protected and that the trademark case is more stirring the pot then anything.

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:

FLWSkin wrote:There are several Facebook pages you can visit. Native American Redskins Fans, Save The Washington Redskins, and others. Basically they are people who are sick of the crap and aren't going to take it anymore. I'm a member of several pages and do what I can to help get the facts out. It is hard because the enemy we are fighting is using every authoritarian tactic in the book. But honestly, as long as Dan is the owner, the name is not changing. Nor should it.

For sure.. im a member of countless groups too.. just wondering where to take the fight I guess.. like boycott the post and Amazon was thrown out there just dont know why. Ive already cut ties with both tho. I think with this site and network there within, we could find a way to support the cause in our efforts to #SaveTheName

Actually, the leader of Native American Redskins Fans is setting up a boycott of the Post and its' advertisers.

Hey check this video. My favorite part is "To be honest 100 years from now thats going to be the only thing we have that imagery of what a native looks like and represents. Hang on to that we need that."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoGESZjbOaM

I will always call the Washington NFL franchise the "Redskins". What makes me cringe is the way Snyder has responded. Thoughtlessly.

- Even decent actions are clearly -- shamelessly -- taken only when Snyder has been pressured into it.

- Q: Sean, how did you spend the summer? A: I visited Indian reservations and everyone said they were proud of the team name. [That's how you spent your summer???]

- Snyder announcing that he has given money to a foundation. Just do it, I say...don't boast about what you have done since you did it as publicity

- Snyder inviting a tribal chieftain to sit with him at a game. Also seems weak-minded. Would the chief have been invited if others had not complained about the name?

welch wrote:I will always call the Washington NFL franchise the "Redskins". What makes me cringe is the way Snyder has responded. Thoughtlessly.

- Even decent actions are clearly -- shamelessly -- taken only when Snyder has been pressured into it.

- Q: Sean, how did you spend the summer? A: I visited Indian reservations and everyone said they were proud of the team name. [That's how you spent your summer???]

- Snyder announcing that he has given money to a foundation. Just do it, I say...don't boast about what you have done since you did it as publicity

- Snyder inviting a tribal chieftain to sit with him at a game. Also seems weak-minded. Would the chief have been invited if others had not complained about the name?

Where he really screwed up Welch was when he said "NEVER" and you can
put that in caps. If he had said nothing then maybe this isn't all blown out of proportion. Since he did, now he has to do something. If he just takes it like being mugged in an alley
and not defending, he might as well concede being dominated by minority.

Where would you have taken it after blowing it saying never? You are right about him being silent on the foundation. I agree. He is backed in a corner and no way out. People say oh the name wont change. Blah blah blah. Of course it will now and sooner than some people might think.

Maybe the fans could perform a coup here! We already know that Redskins is used by a LOT of high schools in the USA with predominantly Native American enrollment. That is proof that Redskins is not offending enough of them. We also know that the fan base, most of it, hates their owner. Maybe we could force Snyder into selling it somehow, and getting a Native American ownership and they keep the name Redskins. It's win-win! Our sh*tty owner is gone and we have a Native American ownership and clears the use of the name forever!

welch wrote:I will always call the Washington NFL franchise the "Redskins". What makes me cringe is the way Snyder has responded. Thoughtlessly.

- Even decent actions are clearly -- shamelessly -- taken only when Snyder has been pressured into it.

- Q: Sean, how did you spend the summer? A: I visited Indian reservations and everyone said they were proud of the team name. [That's how you spent your summer???]

- Snyder announcing that he has given money to a foundation. Just do it, I say...don't boast about what you have done since you did it as publicity

- Snyder inviting a tribal chieftain to sit with him at a game. Also seems weak-minded. Would the chief have been invited if others had not complained about the name?

The part about inviting the Navajo to sit with him just makes my bones hurt. Its like the quintessential response from a racist or whatever.

Person 1: Hey you're a racist.
Person 2: No I'm not, I have a bunch of [insert ethnic minority here] friends.

I think all of this showy stuff Snyder is doing is having the exact opposite effect of what he's intending. He is in no way a sympathetic character and is definitely not the guy to be out there telling everybody how Native Americans feel or don't feel. We would be much better off if he would just shut up.

hanburgerheel wrote:Maybe the fans could perform a coup here! We already know that Redskins is used by a LOT of high schools in the USA with predominantly Native American enrollment. That is proof that Redskins is not offending enough of them. We also know that the fan base, most of it, hates their owner. Maybe we could force Snyder into selling it somehow, and getting a Native American ownership and they keep the name Redskins. It's win-win! Our sh*tty owner is gone and we have a Native American ownership and clears the use of the name forever!

I actually kind of like your plan. lol.

riggofan wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:Maybe the fans could perform a coup here! We already know that Redskins is used by a LOT of high schools in the USA with predominantly Native American enrollment. That is proof that Redskins is not offending enough of them. We also know that the fan base, most of it, hates their owner. Maybe we could force Snyder into selling it somehow, and getting a Native American ownership and they keep the name Redskins. It's win-win! Our sh*tty owner is gone and we have a Native American ownership and clears the use of the name forever!

I actually kind of like your plan. lol.

Where do you find a Native American with $1 billion that he's not using?

A casino?

What do you think about the calls for the team to change its name?

Man, it's twofold. What interests me is how quickly it got pushed into the social consciousness. We were all fine with it since the 1930s, and all of a sudden we go, "No, gotta change it"? It seems like when the first levee breaks, everybody gets on board. I know a lot of Native Americans don't have a problem with it, but they're not going to say, "No, we really want the name." That's not how they're going to use their pulpit. It's like my feeling about gun control: "I get it. You have the right to have guns. But look, let's forget that right. Let's forget the pleasure you get safely on your range, because it's in the wrong hands in other places."

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2014/10/ ... re-so-good

The rest of the article is entertainment.