The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

Deadskins wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.

What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.

Kilmer72 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.

What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.

A bit of humility would have served both men well in that situation...

Kilmer72 wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

Kilmer72 wrote:Only Marty tried to fit him in as a square peg in a round hole.

I don't think that's true. Marty tried to help him refine his technique, and Green took offense. He thought that undermined him in front of the younger players like Champ Bailey. It wasn't like Marty asked him to play a new position.

What ever you would like to call it, no one else was messing with the HOF corners technique. Now if Marty had Peyton Manning and tried to "refine" his technique I would find that a bit odd also. There is always room to improve.
The way you go about it should be considered when dealing with someone that knows how to play the position and play it well.

Don't get me wrong. I actually liked Marty a lot. He just came off as the general, didn't respect the icon and that was my only issue with him. Maybe you feel it was appropriate. That is fine. We all have our opinions.

Maybe he went about it wrong, but I feel his interests were in making Green the best player he could be. As CT said, Darell's speed allowed him to make up for his average technique. I don't think your Peyton Manning example is apt. First, Marty was a defensive coach. And second, Peyton's technique isn't lacking, and doesn't need refining, but I bet the Broncos still employ a QB coach. And I'm guessing he also tries to help his player be the best he can be.

Chris Luva Luva wrote:A bit of humility would have served both men well in that situation...

+1

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.

I have to disagree, you are born with the ability to reach 4.2 speed. No amount of refinement or polishing will allow Hall, Wilson or Amerson to run a 4.2... Green was born with the ability to hit that mark and through his work ethic, he achieved it.

In addition, the fact that he's running similar speeds at 40+ goes to show that his ability is unique and innate to him.

When you are born you are a lil baby drinking milk from a bottle.

If you go to the local hospital and look at all the newborns. Will you be able to pick out the kids who are going to be fast?
Can you predict that newborns habits and activities when he is growing up?

Newborns are on average about the same weight. The healthy ones at least. From there it begins. Its in the parents hands obviously right from the go.

Will the parents overfeed the kid and have him be overweight? Will that parent underfeed the kid? Will the kid be breasfed which is said to be healthier for the kid.

When this kid grows up will he play outside? Or will he play video games like kids these days?

Look at Communist Nations. They pick children and raise them to be Olympians. Many times medal winning Olympians.

If you were to go to the local hospital and those parents gave their newborns to a track coach to raise them to be sprinters. All of those kids would be signifigantly faster then the average human. Some of them would acheive world class speed. Maybe even most.

HEROHAMO wrote:Look at Communist Nations. They pick children and raise them to be Olympians. Many times medal winning Olympians.

Ludicrous...
Communist nations invested HUGE amounts of resources into their athletes.
How many communists have become the world's fastest man (without the benefit of an assist from the idiotic Carter boycott)?

0. Nada. Zip. Wow... if world class training improves foot speed, then... how can this be???

Total Medals in History of the Modern Olympic Games:
USSR: 1204
PRC: 517

USA: 2653

Seems that somehow, even without government sponsorship and training of it's world class athletes, the US did ok... Your argument is unsupportable.

While it's certainly true that training can increase the amount of weight an individual can move, or that you can increase endurance, or the accuracy which which you can maneuver a snow board, this is NOT true of foot speed. Foot speed is the ONE area where gains are marginal (especially in comparison with other very fast individuals), no matter how well trained. In order to develop 4.2 speed, you must start from a place that is already close to that without the training...
As an example, no one EVER trained harder than Jerry Rice. His best 40 time EVER was 4.6, in college. He ran a 4.7 at the Combine. It was around 4.6, 4.7 through the prime of his career. Everyone has a ceiling that is physiologically programed based on genetics.

Deadskins wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:It won't happen and quite frankly it shouldn't, unless they hire him to be a FT DB coach. I'm not opposed to him coaching, or even coming in to talk. But I don't like the idea of him potentially undermining the teaching of the coach at that position. In addition, being a great player does NOT make you a great coach. So there's no way of knowing how effective he'd be unless he was in here full-time and 110% devoted to helping.

I agree. And, although he was one of my favorite players, I was always a little put off by his reaction to Marty trying to coach him up. Like he was too good to learn anything. I'm not sure how good of a coach he'd be. Still, I'm sure he does have a lot he could pass on to younger players.

I share these sentiments.

HEROHAMO wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

HEROHAMO wrote:Speed and quickness is a skill which refined and polished. No one is born with 4.2 forty speed.

I have to disagree, you are born with the ability to reach 4.2 speed. No amount of refinement or polishing will allow Hall, Wilson or Amerson to run a 4.2... Green was born with the ability to hit that mark and through his work ethic, he achieved it.

In addition, the fact that he's running similar speeds at 40+ goes to show that his ability is unique and innate to him.

When you are born you are a lil baby drinking milk from a bottle.

If you go to the local hospital and look at all the newborns. Will you be able to pick out the kids who are going to be fast?
Can you predict that newborns habits and activities when he is growing up?

Newborns are on average about the same weight. The healthy ones at least. From there it begins. Its in the parents hands obviously right from the go.

Will the parents overfeed the kid and have him be overweight? Will that parent underfeed the kid? Will the kid be breasfed which is said to be healthier for the kid.

When this kid grows up will he play outside? Or will he play video games like kids these days?

Look at Communist Nations. They pick children and raise them to be Olympians. Many times medal winning Olympians.

If you were to go to the local hospital and those parents gave their newborns to a track coach to raise them to be sprinters. All of those kids would be signifigantly faster then the average human. Some of them would acheive world class speed. Maybe even most.

Are you channeling your inner Lysenko?

Hardy, har har

First off I was 5 years old in 85, All I can remember is Ronald Reagan, the Shuttle that exploded,Madonna singing like a virgin, breakdancing, Transformers, GI Joe, the pledge of allegiance, singing we are the world in an assembly. So really I have no idea what Lysenko is?
I was only using the communist reference as an example of how you can attain considerable amount of talent if you start from a young age.

Anyhow back to the subject.
Darrell Green is still fast because he still trains to this day. He has a speed camp for goodness sake.

No excuses for our players. Our DBs made it to the NFL already. So its not like they have some kind of genetic defect. They just need to put in the hard work. Not all of them but the ones who are stinking up the joint. Hall and Amerson I really liked. I think they will be fine. The rest of them could use some coaching. I am sure the players who underperform are the same ones who are not out doing the hard work.

HEROHAMO wrote:Hardy, har har

First off I was 5 years old in 85, All I can remember is Ronald Reagan, the Shuttle that exploded,Madonna singing like a virgin, breakdancing, Transformers, GI Joe, the pledge of allegiance, singing we are the world in an assembly. So really I have no idea what Lysenko is?
I was only using the communist reference as an example of how you can attain considerable amount of talent if you start from a young age.

Anyhow back to the subject.
Darrell Green is still fast because he still trains to this day. He has a speed camp for goodness sake.

No excuses for our players. Our DBs made it to the NFL already. So its not like they have some kind of genetic defect. They just need to put in the hard work. Not all of them but the ones who are stinking up the joint. Hall and Amerson I really liked. I think they will be fine. The rest of them could use some coaching. I am sure the players who underperform are the same ones who are not out doing the hard work.

As old as I am, he wasstill before my time. He was a Russian "botanist" who somehow got put in charge of Soviet agriculture. His "theory" was that genetics meant nothing, everything was determined by environment. He spent years & treasure on such projects as growing palm trees in Siberia with predictable results, setting Soviet agriculture back for decades.