The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

OldSchool wrote:

Deadskins wrote:What a load of crap! Gruden obviously knows what he's getting, and as with most people, can plainly see that RGIII is the superior QB. You keep repeating this bs that RGIII hasn't done the necessary studying that comes with being an NFL QB. Can you show even one iota of evidence to support your claim?

Do you believe ey knows what what he is talking about? Read what ey says here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... han-rgiii/

He talks about some of Griffin's problems in that article and he mentioned the 4 time the defense used a zone blitz to free up a man to sack Griffin. Each time Griffin didn't shift the protection so one of the Redskin linemen was lift with no one to block resulting in a free man sacking Griffin. Later they tried that when Cousins was in and he made the read and shifted the protection.

I have read other breakdowns by Chris C. that he flatly states that Griffin doesn't know how to make pre snap reads so is unable to anticipate which receiver will get open against the coverage.

Put down the Griffin koolaid and absorb this information and then decide if Griffin has put in the work to learn how to read defenses.

Yeah, I read the article, and nowhere does ey say that Cousins is setting pre-snap protections and RGIII isn't. He says that when Cousins was in the Skins picked up the one zone blitz the Chiefs ran. He said that responsibility might reside with Will Montgomery, he doesn't know. And, even if it was RGIII's responsibility, it still wouldn't show that he's not putting in the time to learn that skill. So please put down the RGIII haterade and look at the situation objectively.

hanburgerheel wrote:Of all the QB's available in the draft when they took RG3, they took the worst one.

Wow! You don't really believe that, do you?

Deadskins wrote:

OldSchool wrote:

Deadskins wrote:What a load of crap! Gruden obviously knows what he's getting, and as with most people, can plainly see that RGIII is the superior QB. You keep repeating this bs that RGIII hasn't done the necessary studying that comes with being an NFL QB. Can you show even one iota of evidence to support your claim?

Do you believe ey knows what what he is talking about? Read what ey says here:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/dc- ... han-rgiii/

He talks about some of Griffin's problems in that article and he mentioned the 4 time the defense used a zone blitz to free up a man to sack Griffin. Each time Griffin didn't shift the protection so one of the Redskin linemen was lift with no one to block resulting in a free man sacking Griffin. Later they tried that when Cousins was in and he made the read and shifted the protection.

I have read other breakdowns by Chris C. that he flatly states that Griffin doesn't know how to make pre snap reads so is unable to anticipate which receiver will get open against the coverage.

Put down the Griffin koolaid and absorb this information and then decide if Griffin has put in the work to learn how to read defenses.

Yeah, I read the article, and nowhere does ey say that Cousins is setting pre-snap protections and RGIII isn't. He says that when Cousins was in the Skins picked up the one zone blitz the Chiefs ran. He said that responsibility might reside with Will Montgomery, he doesn't know. And, even if it was RGIII's responsibility, it still wouldn't show that he's not putting in the time to learn that skill. So please put down the RGIII haterade and look at the situation objectively.

Correct. I heard this transcript when CC said it live on my drive home from work. The main thrust was Griff had developed bad habits and we did him no favor by helping him rush back. It was actually positive in terms of Griffin at one time being able to go through his reads and being super accurate but that no longer being the case and ending with let's get him right again the way Cam Newton got right again.

By the way, I've seen both guys look off a safety then hit a guy that therefore got open. I've also seen both guys identify the Mike and change blocking. I've also seen both guys lock in on a receiver and get picked. And I've seen both guys throw behind a guy a fraction of a second before getting creamed in "the pocket."

Sk1nsfan7 wrote:I knew the real fans were still out there! Need a opinion from you guys. My mother-in-law bought me a Jordan Reed jersey for Xmas....should I return it for $100 in nflshop credit or keep it?

Keep it

EA7649 wrote:

Sk1nsfan7 wrote:I knew the real fans were still out there! Need a opinion from you guys. My mother-in-law bought me a Jordan Reed jersey for Xmas....should I return it for $100 in nflshop credit or keep it?

Keep it

I don't know. Reed may not play again. He's had a lot of concussions.

Time to go out on a limb. I'm gonna say ...

... speaking of offenses, the Packers are Rodgers centric, the Saints are Brees centric, the Panthers are Newton centric, 49Rs are Kap centric, the Pats are Brady centric, the Colts are Luck centric, the Broncos are Manning centirc, and the Chargers are Rivers centric. Heck, the Seahawks are Wilson centric.

The Eagles might be McCoy centric and the Chiefs are Charles centric. The Bengals lacked a focal point though one could argue for saying they are Gordon centirc.

I'd say most good (playoff) teams are QB centirc and the above 3 who are not are out of the playoffs.

Even the Ravens last year were Flacco centric down the stretch.

Deadskins wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:Of all the QB's available in the draft when they took RG3, they took the worst one.

Wow! You don't really believe that, do you?

If the Redskins had the choice of Griffin, Luck or Wilson... and they chose Griffin? Yes, I am absolutely, 100%, dead-on certain they chose the worst of the three by a country mile. And, they gave up way, way, WAY too much to get him! I can appreciate how vital the QB position is to the success of a franchise. It is absolute. I saw Griffin many times at Baylor. Griffin is going to struggle immensely in the NFL. He is not likely to last because of the inability to make the necessary improvements. Griffin is the epitome of college star and NFL bust. A lot of his "bust" side is due to how much Washington gave up to get him. He was also thrust into a position that required no earning of respect or anything. He was appointed, basically. He is also a physical liability. Even if he were a stellar passer and could read defenses better (which he can't), I don't think he will physically last! He will get injured a LOT! He's just far too much of a liability in my view. But, fans are clearly more stubborn than I ever knew on here. I'm not trolling. I'm just very direct and I don't sugarcoat things. His rookie season will be his NFL peak.

hanburgerheel wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:Of all the QB's available in the draft when they took RG3, they took the worst one.

Wow! You don't really believe that, do you?

If the Redskins had the choice of Griffin, Luck or Wilson... and they chose Griffin? Yes, I am absolutely, 100%, dead-on certain they chose the worst of the three by a country mile.

First, you can't include Luck, because he wasn't available when they took RGIII. Second you can hardly include Wilson, as he wasn't even supposed to be the starter for the Seahawks, and you are totally going on hindsight. But what about the other 10 or so QBs who were also taken in the draft last year? You may think we overpaid, but the statement you made is ridiculous on its face.

hanburgerheel wrote:He is not likely to last because of the inability to make the necessary improvements. Griffin is the epitome of college star and NFL bust.

Two more ridiculous statements. He was rookie of the year. He can in no way be an NFL bust, and certainly not the epitome of one. And what is this crap about "the inability to make the necessary improvements?" No, you're not trolling.

DarthMonk wrote:Time to go out on a limb. I'm gonna say ...

... speaking of offenses, the Packers are Rodgers centric, the Saints are Brees centric, the Panthers are Newton centric, 49Rs are Kap centric, the Pats are Brady centric, the Colts are Luck centric, the Broncos are Manning centirc, and the Chargers are Rivers centric. Heck, the Seahawks are Wilson centric.

The Eagles might be McCoy centric and the Chiefs are Charles centric. The Bengals lacked a focal point though one could argue for saying they are Gordon centirc.

I'd say most good (playoff) teams are QB centirc and the above 3 who are not are out of the playoffs.

Even the Ravens last year were Flacco centric down the stretch.

+1

The funny thing is none of the rghaters have any idea what the coaches even tried to implement with our qbs.. being the egotistical dictator we are hearing about I doubt shanny even focused on "changing plays". I do recall a game where rgiiis head set went out and he called a play that led to a touchdown. For everyone acting like they know anything about the huddle, presnap, or the play- get real.

Deadskins wrote:

hanburgerheel wrote:He is not likely to last because of the inability to make the necessary improvements. Griffin is the epitome of college star and NFL bust.

Two more ridiculous statements. He was rookie of the year. He can in no way be an NFL bust, and certainly not the epitome of one. And what is this crap about "the inability to make the necessary improvements?" No, you're not trolling.

I think Griffin is going to be a bust also. He had an exciting rookie season fueled by his running until he got seriously hurt, who didn't see that coming? Running quarterbacks in the NFL all suffer the same fate.

I think the critical ability that NFL QB needs is all mental. They need the knowledge and ability to accurately read the defense, adjust the protections, move effectively within the pocket, quickly go through progressions, make good decisions, be able to throw accurately, shake off mistakes and provide leadership. Those are the must have abilities that are essential to even modest NFL success. Having an 80 yard arm and wide receiver speed are nice to haves but not the essential things.

The mistake I think the Redskins made is choosing a guy who had the rare nice to have things and assumed they could teach him the must have stuff. That he could play backyard style in season one and learn the pocket game as he went along. They gamble paid off for awhile before going bust.

I don't care if a man was a bright student learning how read process and decide quickly enough for the NFL isn't an automatic it's a major and speculative project that could end in failure and early results are not good. Griffin hasn't even learned how to make pre snap reads and adjust protections which is step one in the process.

You guys do realize Luck didn't have that great of a season. And Wilson has the best defense in the Nfl on his side. Wilson is a game manager. Look at his stats yesterday. He threw for 103 yards and THEY WON! Imagine if Rg didn't have to come from behind every game. He was throwing way too much this season. ST and Defense did not help him.

OldSchool wrote:Griffin hasn't even learned how to make pre snap reads and adjust protections which is step one in the process.

We've already been over this, yet you continue to make the same baseless accusation. If you don't come up with new schtick, I'll be forced to put you on my ignore list. And, there is no way for RGIII to be a bust at this point. It's simply too late. No rookie of the year can possibly be labeled a bust. Stop drinking the haterade.

Sk1nsfan7 wrote:You guys do realize Luck didn't have that great of a season. And Wilson has the best defense in the Nfl on his side. Wilson is a game manager. Look at his stats yesterday. He threw for 103 yards and THEY WON! Imagine if Rg didn't have to come from behind every game. He was throwing way too much this season. ST and Defense did not help him.

You will get no where w logic and reason I'm telling you... Kapernick had under 200 yards and got the W aswell.. dc qb has to put up 350 to even have chance! Oh wait, cousins hit 380 and still lost! Smmfh some people just believe rgiii is the root of all evil and refuse to look at the rest of the damned team.
He needs to make Payton (esque) adjustments at the line in his 2nd year in the league with half the time Payton has in the pocket.. they just said "and Manning holds onto it until some one gets open."
A luxury no dc qb has had since the hogs!

Time will tell. Griffin will be a memory sooner than later. I agree, by the way, that having a strong defense is a HUGE boost to your offensive performance. They work hand-in-hand. And, the Redskins are making sure they maintain the failures of this season's historically-bad defense by keeping the failure Haslett employed.

OldSchool wrote:I think the critical ability that NFL QB needs is all mental.

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote:They need the knowledge and ability to accurately read the defense

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote:, adjust the protections,

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: move effectively within the pocket,

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: quickly go through progressions,

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: make good decisions,

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: be able to throw accurately,

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: shake off mistakes

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: and provide leadership.

Agreed.

OldSchool wrote: Those are the must have abilities that are essential to even modest NFL success. Having an 80 yard arm and wide receiver speed are nice to haves but not the essential things.

Agreed.

I don't know what the future holds but I saw Griff do all these things in his rookie year.

The staff abused him.

The next one won't ... I hope.

RG3 managed to play a whole season or most of with a repaired right knee. He literally was 7-9 months removed from ACL reconstruction. That alone tells me the kind of character he has. How many QBs would have done the same? Not too many I can think of.

RG3 has a whole off season to work on his reads, throws, speed etc.. The workaholic that is RG3 is going to be an MVP candidate next year. I think Alfred will challenge him for that right as well.

I HIGHLY recommend the "Add foe" feature - it 'removes' the posts from idiots/trolls

Thank you site administrators - what a great thing you have done ...

I can't believe you guys gave three pages of responses to this troll thread.

Hey Oldschool. I got a name you might like.

The Washington Griffins

We all want RG3 to become a quality QB with all the necessary skill sets including the ability to read defenses. Some of us may not have as much faith as others, he will advance to this level. When we don't agree that hardly makes anyone a troll. In fact, I have been a member longer than many of you.

I think there are members that think RG3 has to be the starter because of what is invested. Let me ask, if you pay to go see a movie and ten minutes in the movie you realize is is awful, do you stay because you have already paid or do you move forward and invest your time is something more productive.

My point is, some investments work and some don't. Decisions should be based what is best for the present/future and nothing is sacred just because of past investments.

SKINS#1 wrote:I think there are members that think RG3 has to be the starter because of what is invested. Let me ask, if you pay to go see a movie and ten minutes in the movie you realize is is awful, do you stay because you have already paid or do you move forward and invest your time is something more productive.

My point is, some investments work and some don't. Decisions should be based what is best for the present/future and nothing is sacred just because of past investments.

Oh my GOD man, that is a freaking terrible comparison. You have to be kidding.

SKINS#1 wrote:I think there are members that think RG3 has to be the starter because of what is invested. Let me ask, if you pay to go see a movie and ten minutes in the movie you realize is is awful, do you stay because you have already paid or do you move forward and invest your time is something more productive.

My point is, some investments work and some don't. Decisions should be based what is best for the present/future and nothing is sacred just because of past investments.

First, I have never walked out of a movie in my life, so I don't really understand the reference, but if I did decide to leave, I would go into another movie at the same theatre, so that I got at least some of my money's worth. That said, I would never leave 10 minutes in, that's not nearly enough time to make a sound judgement on the quality of the film. My point is, while I agree that some investments don't pan out, you don't ditch at the first downturn in the market. That would be the surest way to lose on every investment you ever make.

riggofan wrote:

SKINS#1 wrote:I think there are members that think RG3 has to be the starter because of what is invested. Let me ask, if you pay to go see a movie and ten minutes in the movie you realize is is awful, do you stay because you have already paid or do you move forward and invest your time is something more productive.
My point is, some investments work and some don't. Decisions should be based what is best for the present/future and nothing is sacred just because of past investments.

Oh my GOD man, that is a freaking terrible comparison. You have to be kidding.

+1 - that just makes no sense at all and is completely irrelevant .. you might make it onto my 'Add foe' list with comments like that

let's be VERY clear - there may be some 'fans' that think that "RG3 has to be the starter because of what is invested" BECAUSE there are many fans that have no clue
anyone with any real knowledge is only looking at what needs to be done to get the most out of this incredibly talented athlete with so much potential

really good players with a lot of potential are only evaluated based on what they can and will do given the right circumstances

players with talent and ability that don't show any possibility of making it in the NFL do not make it to the status level that RG3 has with people with any knowledge at all