Lay off RGIII

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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by Kilmer72 »

SkinsJock wrote:don't feed the troll - dftt - I will not even read those posts


Yeah your right but it is irritating.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Skinsfan55 wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Put the racial talk were the sun don't shine. Maybe the race of players are important to you maybe you have a racial agenda but the rest of want wins.


It would be ignorant to pretend that attacks on RGIII's mental acuity and work ethic aren't at least in part, racially motivated. It's the same knock we've heard about African American QB's since the color barrier was broken. Also, it's equally ignorant to highlight on that point since it was far from the main idea of my post.
What's ignorant is to fabricate "facts" that simply do not present themselves, in the name of creating a racial argument. It matters not that it's not a "main" idea in your post... the fact is, it is a part of your argument... and it's simply not supported by facts... it's just more cheap race baiting. You want to make an argument that he's being unfairly picked on? Fine... there may be some evidence for that... but I simply don't see any evidence to support your attempt to blame racism as a motivating factor for it. It's a cheap, lazy, and (in this case) unsupportable argument that's simply not worthy of the SF55 that I have known.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by Countertrey »

OldSchool wrote:
Skinsfan55 wrote:
OldSchool wrote:Put the racial talk were the sun don't shine. Maybe the race of players are important to you maybe you have a racial agenda but the rest of want wins.


It would be ignorant to pretend that attacks on RGIII's mental acuity and work ethic aren't at least in part, racially motivated. It's the same knock we've heard about African American QB's since the color barrier was broken. Also, it's equally ignorant to highlight on that point since it was far from the main idea of my post.


Baloney! People taking on highly accountable roles are going to be critiqued and race doesn't have a thing to do with it and using race to escape accountability is a non starter. Griffin doesn't know how to read defenses, not before the snap so he can adjust the protection and not after it so he quickly knows where the man will be open and get it out. I can understand it taking longer for Griffin than Cousins after the snap because even though Griffin has had 10 times as many because processing as quick as Cousins really isn't something many people can do but please explain to me why after 2 years Griffin still hasn't learned to read pre snap defenses well enough to change his protection before the snap? If it isn't Griffin's lack of dedication to the task what is it?

Don't bother trying to tell me Griffin needs more time to learn this or Cousins knows how to do it because he learned how in college. Cousins' college team didn't face NFL defenses nor did they run the Redskin offense with its protection schemes and call signals. Cousins learned this in Ashburn. Cousins and Griffin came in at the same time and despite Griffin getting prepped and starting 29 times to Cousins' 3 times Cousins is the one who understands things and Griffin is the guy trying to play backyard ball in the NFL. How do you account for it. It's either Griffin is no where as smart as Cousins or Griffin didn't put in nearly as much time and effort as Cousins or both. What is your explanation?
THIS argument requires a deliberate effort to NOT understand how complex the differences between a pocket concept and a spread/run concept are. Apparently, someone has no memory of the difficulty of developing muscle memory. Apparently, someone is arguing a point into the ground, simply for the pure joy of pissing people off. Is that the case? There is, otherwise, no indication that you have a clue how difficult it is to become a truly competent pocket quarterback. You give the appearance of being "Old School" in name only.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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[/quote] THIS argument requires a deliberate effort to NOT understand how complex the differences between a pocket concept and a spread/run concept are. Apparently, someone has no memory of the difficulty of developing muscle memory. Apparently, someone is arguing a point into the ground, simply for the pure joy of pissing people off. Is that the case? There is, otherwise, no indication that you have a clue how difficult it is to become a truly competent pocket quarterback. You give the appearance of being "Old School" in name only.[/quote]

Let me respond to a few of your points. First, I don't get angry if others don't see things the way I do or disagree when I express my opinions. If you get angry reading posts you disagree with than maybe participating on a message board isn't a good activity for you. As for my lack of understanding about the differences of quarterbacking a college option offense and an NFL offense like Shanny's, I may be the one on this board who MOST appreciates the big leap Griffin needs to make and the one who is the most skeptical that he can make this big leap. Griffin is I think best characterized as a "project" who lacks basic QB analytical and decision making skills and he hasn't made any discernible progress to acquiring them in two years and 29 starts. Yet there are posters on this board who are certain Griffin can learn how to read and decide as fast and effectively as Cousins.

Why I know it is possible for Griffin to learn to do these things I think it is clear he hasn't even begun. Griffin followed a path to the NFL that circumvented the process of being weeded out for failure to learn how read defenses and quickly make the correct decision under pressure. Now he is in the NFL and appears hapless trying to perform this core responsibility. In 2012 he got away playing a college game in the NFL until he didn't and was seriously injured. Will Griffin make big leap as a pocket passer in 2014? Perhaps but I doubt it, I think he'll take off his brace and run again and maybe he'll run so fast he'll beat the odds and finish the season. We'll see but I'd prefer it if the Skins around Cousins.

Cousins has prepped for and started 3 games for the Redskins and in those 3 starts he has passed for 800 yards, 6 TD with 4 INTs. His average stats per start are 260+ yards, 2 TDs and 1.3 INTs. If you compare his stats to the NFL leaders you'll find his yardage and TDs per start are up with leaders but the best QBs in the NFL only throw .7 INTs per game or half of Cousins' 1.3 per start. Can Cousins reduce his interceptions in half with more experience and playing time with his receivers? I like his chances of accomplishing that and becoming a very effective starting QB in the NFL. The ball was thrown a little behind his receivers in each of his 3 interceptions during his 2 starts this year. Given more practice and playing time with the starters I certainly believe Cousins can cut down on his interceptions, I wish Griffin's many shortcomings were as easily corrected but after 2 years if he hasn't learned to read defenses before the snap well enough to change protections I think it is questionable if he can master playing in the pocket well enough for the NFL.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

What a joke... Let's talk about Cousins stats but dismiss rgiiis? Dumb.
Cousins 3 starts were vs the 3 worse defenses in the NFL. The brownies last year (terrible) and two bottom of the barrel teams in atl and Dallas. No one should be getting too worked up about anything seen in those games, good or bad.
Next year the best qb will play. This thread is about.giving props where props are do, recognizing rgiiis progress with no off-season and returning from a serious injury. This thread is to notice he has improved in the pocket, makes his progressions better, and is running safer. It's to acknowledge that the team around him (or any qb you put back there) isn't quite championship material and our weaknesses even he can't cover up for ever. THIS thread is not to debate how much you prefer Cousins.
Let's stay on topic ok old-school? I know Ur.a fan not a mere troll, just a pist off one like a lot of us. Please remember how much rgiii gave you last year before dismissing the kid so fast eh?
Again I beg of you.. give us this one thread, please?
Can't you stink up the other rgiii hating threads (more then you already have)
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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OldSchool wrote:If you were earning millions of dollars wouldn't you put in the time reviewing videos, the play book, have chalk talks with the coaches and fellow players? Wouldn't you be doubly motivated to learn the mental aspects of the game when you knew your mobility was going to be reduced? But Griffin didn't bother.

Says who?
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by StorminMormon86 »

I'm really confused by our fanbase. After a phenomenal rookie year and a crappy 2nd year, some have come to the conclusion that he's going to be a bust. Others say he's going to be even better than his rookie year. How they came to either conclusion, I have no idea. I'm not ready to call Griffin a bust at all, but I'm not ready to anoint him the savior and think he's going to prove anyone wrong next year.

And for people who think race is a factor in the "bashing" of Griffin, if Peyton Manning or Tom Brady were on teams that were 3-12 playing the way Griffin did this year (awful), you'd be a fool to think there wouldn't be IMMENSE scrutiny thrown their way.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm really confused by our fanbase. After a phenomenal rookie year and a crappy 2nd year, some have come to the conclusion that he's going to be a bust. Others say he's going to be even better than his rookie year. How they came to either conclusion, I have no idea. I'm not ready to call Griffin a bust at all, but I'm not ready to anoint him the savior and think he's going to prove anyone wrong next year.

And for people who think race is a factor in the "bashing" of Griffin, if Peyton Manning or Tom Brady were on teams that were 3-12 playing the way Griffin did this year (awful), you'd be a fool to think there wouldn't be IMMENSE scrutiny thrown their way.

Likewise I'm sick of fans saying how horrible he played this year... Jus as many yards as Cam Newton and he has had two MORE games then bob. If we had a competent defense and special.teams maybe Wed be talking playoffs right now. To surmise griffs season as awful, is just as boneheaded as calling Cousins the saviour after three mediocre games.
Some of us are hoping rgiii makes a come back and plays to a higher level based on what we've seen him do at Baylor, and his rookie year. He is a work horse doesn't even drink eat sleeps and breathes football. We know his work ethic and remain hopeful he shuts all his doubters up next year.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by StorminMormon86 »

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Likewise I'm sick of fans saying how horrible he played this year... Jus as many yards as Cam Newton and he has had two MORE games then bob. If we had a competent defense and special.teams maybe Wed be talking playoffs right now. To surmise griffs season as awful, is just as boneheaded as calling Cousins the saviour after three mediocre games.
Some of us are hoping rgiii makes a come back and plays to a higher level based on what we've seen him do at Baylor, and his rookie year. He is a work horse doesn't even drink eat sleeps and breathes football. We know his work ethic and remain hopeful he shuts all his doubters up next year.

You would be kidding yourself if you don't think he's had an awful year.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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StorminMormon86 wrote:
cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:Likewise I'm sick of fans saying how horrible he played this year... Jus as many yards as Cam Newton and he has had two MORE games then bob. If we had a competent defense and special.teams maybe Wed be talking playoffs right now. To surmise griffs season as awful, is just as boneheaded as calling Cousins the saviour after three mediocre games.
Some of us are hoping rgiii makes a come back and plays to a higher level based on what we've seen him do at Baylor, and his rookie year. He is a work horse doesn't even drink eat sleeps and breathes football. We know his work ethic and remain hopeful he shuts all his doubters up next year.

You would be kidding yourself if you don't think he's had an awful year.

Apparently we were watching different games... Eli manning, matt Ryan, and that kid from the jets had awful years. Rgiii tried to force some things to help this craptastic team win, leading to UNCHARACTERISTIC ints but he put up more yards then any of the other read option qbs this year. You think Kap is playing better?? Doesn't matter if you view the cup half full or half empty if you don't like what's in the cup. Was he as fun as last year? No. As accurate as the most accurate rookie ever was last year? No. Was he awful? Not even close.
Feel free to join old-school in a bitchfest thread, we r trying to clean THIS one up though :!:
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by StorminMormon86 »

No Kaepernick is not even close to playing as good as Griffin has this year. Considering he's thrown less picks, has a higher rating, and is the quarterback on an 11-4 team going back into the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Deadskins wrote:
OldSchool wrote:If you were earning millions of dollars wouldn't you put in the time reviewing videos, the play book, have chalk talks with the coaches and fellow players? Wouldn't you be doubly motivated to learn the mental aspects of the game when you knew your mobility was going to be reduced? But Griffin didn't bother.

Says who?

eh... you know how it is, DS... sometimes, it's just easier to pull your facts from that dark place between your butt cheeks... dig?
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

StorminMormon86 wrote:No Kaepernick is not even close to playing as good as Griffin has this year. Considering he's thrown less picks, has a higher rating, and is the quarterback on an 11-4 team going back into the playoffs for the 2nd year in a row.

Lmao.. so we agree? When rgiii can put up sub 200 yard games and still win then we can talk. Any qb with THIS team has to do miracles to win... Even your boy cousins couldn't buy a win w nearly 400 yards. This TEAM is the problem... Qb is one of the very few positions we don't have to worry Bout. Good chat my Dawg!
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by riggofan »

StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm really confused by our fanbase. After a phenomenal rookie year and a crappy 2nd year, some have come to the conclusion that he's going to be a bust. Others say he's going to be even better than his rookie year. How they came to either conclusion, I have no idea. I'm not ready to call Griffin a bust at all, but I'm not ready to anoint him the savior and think he's going to prove anyone wrong next year.


Why are you confused by our fanbase? Its very simple. If we are not winning, everybody sucks. Especially the QB. ;)

I don't know about a "savior", but I don't have much doubt that RGIII will have a better year next year. If for no other reason than he'll be healthier, have a real offseason, etc; I don't think last year's performance was a fluke. The real question to me is will the rest of the team be able to improve enough so we can get back to winning.

Just flipping through this thread, I still feel pretty happy that we have both RGIII and Cousins right now. Without QB questions, hopefully the FA money and draft picks can be focused on the less sexy positions. Strengthen the offensive line and get us a few more playmakers on defense.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by Deadskins »

Countertrey wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
OldSchool wrote:If you were earning millions of dollars wouldn't you put in the time reviewing videos, the play book, have chalk talks with the coaches and fellow players? Wouldn't you be doubly motivated to learn the mental aspects of the game when you knew your mobility was going to be reduced? But Griffin didn't bother.

Says who?

eh... you know how it is, DS... sometimes, it's just easier to pull your facts from that dark place between your butt cheeks... dig?

I guess you'd kind of have to.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Deadskins wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
Deadskins wrote: Says who?

eh... you know how it is, DS... sometimes, it's just easier to pull your facts from that dark place between your butt cheeks... dig?

I guess you'd kind of have to.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by StorminMormon86 »

riggofan wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:I'm really confused by our fanbase. After a phenomenal rookie year and a crappy 2nd year, some have come to the conclusion that he's going to be a bust. Others say he's going to be even better than his rookie year. How they came to either conclusion, I have no idea. I'm not ready to call Griffin a bust at all, but I'm not ready to anoint him the savior and think he's going to prove anyone wrong next year.


Why are you confused by our fanbase? Its very simple. If we are not winning, everybody sucks. Especially the QB. ;)

I don't know about a "savior", but I don't have much doubt that RGIII will have a better year next year. If for no other reason than he'll be healthier, have a real offseason, etc; I don't think last year's performance was a fluke. The real question to me is will the rest of the team be able to improve enough so we can get back to winning.

Just flipping through this thread, I still feel pretty happy that we have both RGIII and Cousins right now. Without QB questions, hopefully the FA money and draft picks can be focused on the less sexy positions. Strengthen the offensive line and get us a few more playmakers on defense.

I should have known, haha. I'm not saying last years performance was a fluke, but I'm not ready to declare that Griffin will be that guy again so soon. My real concern is that the offense is going to be seen as "gimmick-y", and that the defenses have caught up with it and adjusted accordingly. That is my strongest concern going into next year.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by Neo »

RG3`s stats this year are a littled padded though, so let's not give too much credit, but also let's not take away too much credit.

I think the coaches are failing to find his way of learning new pocket skills naturally; seems they are forcing their cookie cutter tactics on him. A great QB coach would learn about their player and find a more fluid way of developing them...everyone learns differently.

Cooley was saying how Robert was learning bad habits and it was good for him to be benched. He wasn't saying that was THE reason, but rather why he was in favor of him being benched.

The entire team struggled this year while Robert was learning a new way of seeing the game; that's a trainwrech situation for ANY QB.

With a better oline and upgraded targets, he will soar. Getting that brace off will free his mind more as well. Add to that a new coach who knows how to develop Robert, and its lights out.

Great news is that this isn't a lofty dream. This is well within our grasp once necessary changes are made.

The defense is the more complicated issue. With wise choices, 50% of the issues can be solved in 2014`s draft class & FA. Add in the same for 2015, and we are realistically a top 10 defense once more.

This team needs wise leaders; wisdom can fix this team in two years.

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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Deadskins wrote:
OldSchool wrote:If you were earning millions of dollars wouldn't you put in the time reviewing videos, the play book, have chalk talks with the coaches and fellow players? Wouldn't you be doubly motivated to learn the mental aspects of the game when you knew your mobility was going to be reduced? But Griffin didn't bother.

Says who?
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Countertrey wrote:
Deadskins wrote:
OldSchool wrote:If you were earning millions of dollars wouldn't you put in the time reviewing videos, the play book, have chalk talks with the coaches and fellow players? Wouldn't you be doubly motivated to learn the mental aspects of the game when you knew your mobility was going to be reduced? But Griffin didn't bother.
Says who?
The voices... you know the ones...
why are the same posters the only ones hearing these voices .. :twisted:
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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SkinsJock wrote:
Countertrey wrote:
Deadskins wrote:Says who?
The voices... you know the ones...
why are the same posters the only ones hearing these voices .. :twisted:

Perhaps it's a gift.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

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Countertrey wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:why are the same posters the only ones hearing these voices ..
Perhaps it's a gift.

and it is the gift giving season ...
Until recently, Snyder & Allen have made a lot of really bad decisions - nobody with any sense believes this franchise will get better under their guidance
Snyder's W/L record = 45% (80-96) - Snyder/Allen = 41% (59-84-1)
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by riggofan »

StorminMormon86 wrote:I should have known, haha. I'm not saying last years performance was a fluke, but I'm not ready to declare that Griffin will be that guy again so soon. My real concern is that the offense is going to be seen as "gimmick-y", and that the defenses have caught up with it and adjusted accordingly. That is my strongest concern going into next year.


Sounds like a legit concern to me. Seriously, we can't try to run last year's offense ever again. It was a great adjustment given the state of our offensive line, but you're right defenses have adjusted and its also a guarantee to get our young QB killed.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by RG3peat »

Im not a Cousins for President...Its a team effort...win or lose. RG3 though had a good season when they played a last place schedule and not so good when a 1st place one...DEFENSE also....Next year all healed up to play yet again a last place schedule....we shall see if hes up and down v/s the competition.
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Re: Lay off RGIII

Post by cowboykillerzRGiii »

RG3peat wrote:Im not a Cousins for President...Its a team effort...win or lose. RG3 though had a good season when they played a last place schedule and not so good when a 1st place one...DEFENSE also....Next year all healed up to play yet again a last place schedule....we shall see if hes up and down v/s the competition.

I get what you're saying.. but when I realized it only has bearence on two games, it doesn't make much of a difference.

I was actually hoping cousins would play much better then he has the past two.weeks. not just to help he's value go up but also to "teach rgiiia lesson" so to speak. NOW he can legitimately say, "see? Told you these coaches are terrible."
This team needs help.in a lot of areas, starting at the top with the coaches.. luckily we have a franchise qb, rb, and some other key pieces in place to.go.along w our cap space and draft.

Anyone that still want to blame rgiii? Or does Cousins suck now too? Lmao
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