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Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 2:59 pm
by hanburgerheel
7-44-66-81-84 wrote:I'm afraid I have to agree. Here is what RGIII can not do:

1. He does not have the field vision to throw his receivers open, or to know where his 2nd read is is the first read is covered. Good QBs have this. The road is littered with the bodies of QBs that some coach thought could learn this. It isn't learnable. You either have it or you don't.

2. He can't hit a crossing receiver. Throws are consistently high, and more often behind the receiver. If Pierre Garcon had not made several unbelievable catches in the Bears and Raiders games, we would be 1-9.

3. He thinks he knows more than the coaches. When asked to do something he feels is wrong, I believe he is subconsciously failing to prove his point.

4. He cannot make the decision to throw to the spot where the receiver will be when he wins on his route. He needs the receiver to win first, and be visibly open before he throws.



I guess since this poster has only 1 post-count, then the information offered is less valid.

I see some very interesting points here. And, I know for absolute certain that you cannot develop and coach-up things that are simply not instinctively there. Tim Tebow is another prime example of college star and NFL flop (even before he was eligible). There are countless college stars that cannot succeed in the NFL. Maybe Griffin can be a star, but I highly doubt it. Mostly for only one of the four reasons above. The Redskins need a QB that can perform NOW...not in 5 years. Griffin is also very fragile and even if he were a dead-eye passer, I don't think he will last physically for more than 5 years.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:13 pm
by SkinsJock
StorminMormon86 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Robert has not played well for the most part, but to state "he has shown nothing this season that makes me believe he'll be our franchise QB …" is just not correct at all

You agree that he's played poorly this year, then say that I was incorrect in saying he has shown nothing THIS SEASON that makes me think he's a franchise QB?

Robert has not played as well as he's capable of this season …
HOWEVER … he has shown on a number of occasions that he's a very good QB that needs to learn a lot more about playing QB in the NFL

Robert Griffin will become the best Redskins QB ever - he has been a disappointment - he will get there …

we actually have a number of good young players and while we are not going to do as well as I (and many others) expected we are a lot better than many other franchises with better win loss records than ours

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:28 pm
by StorminMormon86
SkinsJock wrote:Robert Griffin will become the best Redskins QB ever - he has been a disappointment - he will get there …

Lay off the kool-aid...

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:39 pm
by Deadskins
I'm not sure how anyone could call RGIII fragile. The guy has missed all of one start in his short career, due to a freak accident. He has taken all the hits so far. I'm not saying I think he can take unlimited punishment or that he doesn't need to protect himself, or shouldn't get better protection from his teammates, but the record doesn't reflect the label.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:50 pm
by Deadskins
7-44-66-81-84 wrote:I'm afraid I have to agree. Here is what RGIII can not do:

1. He does not have the field vision to throw his receivers open, or to know where his 2nd read is is the first read is covered. Good QBs have this. The road is littered with the bodies of QBs that some coach thought could learn this. It isn't learnable. You either have it or you don't.

2. He can't hit a crossing receiver. Throws are consistently high, and more often behind the receiver. If Pierre Garcon had not made several unbelievable catches in the Bears and Raiders games, we would be 1-9.

3. He thinks he knows more than the coaches. When asked to do something he feels is wrong, I believe he is subconsciously failing to prove his point.

4. He cannot make the decision to throw to the spot where the receiver will be when he wins on his route. He needs the receiver to win first, and be visibly open before he throws.

1. That's ridiculous. Of course it's learnable. There is an "it" factor that is unlearnable, but it's not what you are calling "field vision," and RGIII definitely has the unlearnable "it" factor.

2. His accuracy has decreased this year, but I don't agree with your opening sentence. He will get it back with time.

3. Again, this is a ludicrous statement.

4. Like most every sophmore QB to ever play the game. It takes time to adjust to the NFL speed.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 3:52 pm
by KPrince36
Last season the Redskins offense manned by RG3 made defenses looked dazed and confused by utilizing a great running game, play-action and a good zone read formation highlighted by a very speedy quarterback. The Redskins were in control and being very aggressive on offense. The offense consistently had defenses on their heels and were able to create quite a few match up problems and exploit them. It is obviously a different game this year and one in which the team cannot seem to figure out. The reasons have to be somewhere in between the extreme comments made by us fans and posters. Does RG3 have some problematic weaknesses and is he in danger of not becoming our franchise quarterback that just about everyone thought he would be? Absolutely, but he doesn't need to be benched and criticized like it is all his fault. He is in his 2nd season as a NFL quarterback for crying out loud. Give him some time to develop. Does he have the ability to read defenses and pick apart favorable match ups? I don't know if he has this talent. Obviously some things can be coached and learned but RG3 was also born with a certain potential and skill set. He obviously does not have the proper instincts to avoid hits and play smarter. He wants that contact, and to prove himself as tough or at least he wanted to. The kid could be in the process of being broken or breaking himself by trying to be something he is not. I think we all should start looking at RG3 in a realistic light. He can't even slide the right way for heaven's sake. I think in his heart he would rather take those big hits and challenge defenses with his athletic ability but in his mind he knows that cannot work long term, maybe even simply for the reason he will be knocked out of the NFL and his career drastically shortened. We obviously haven't seen enough of RG3 to know how it is going to turn out, but he is definitely having a very rough start. Being a great or even good NFL quarterback requires a certain mental toughness and capacity to play smarter not harder. Quarterbacks that don't learn how to use their brain and also put the team's playmakers in a position to succeed while building that necessary trust aren't going to last very long or have a successful career. This league will poke and prod you until your weakness is found and then exploit it until you figure out how to stop the bleeding. RG3 is a qb not a running back, but does he know that? I'm not sure, and that really is the question. Can RG3 learn how to be a QB not a playmaker? His job is to put players in position to succeed and get them the ball not hog the ball and try to be a hero.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:01 pm
by Kilmer72
KPrince36 wrote:Last season the Redskins offense manned by RG3 made defenses looked dazed and confused by utilizing a great running game, play-action and a good zone read formation highlighted by a very speedy quarterback. The Redskins were in control and being very aggressive on offense. The offense consistently had defenses on their heels and were able to create quite a few match up problems and exploit them. It is obviously a different game this year and one in which the team cannot seem to figure out. The reasons have to be somewhere in between the extreme comments made by us fans and posters. Does RG3 have some problematic weaknesses and is he in danger of not becoming our franchise quarterback that just about everyone thought he would be? Absolutely, but he doesn't need to be benched and criticized like it is all his fault. He is in his 2nd season as a NFL quarterback for crying out loud. Give him some time to develop. Does he have the ability to read defenses and pick apart favorable match ups? I don't know if he has this talent. Obviously some things can be coached and learned but RG3 was also born with a certain potential and skill set. He obviously does not have the proper instincts to avoid hits and play smarter. He wants that contact, and to prove himself as tough or at least he wanted to. The kid could be in the process of being broken or breaking himself by trying to be something he is not. I think we all should start looking at RG3 in a realistic light. He can't even slide the right way for heaven's sake. I think in his heart he would rather take those big hits and challenge defenses with his athletic ability but in his mind he knows that cannot work long term, maybe even simply for the reason he will be knocked out of the NFL and his career drastically shortened. We obviously haven't seen enough of RG3 to know how it is going to turn out, but he is definitely having a very rough start. Being a great or even good NFL quarterback requires a certain mental toughness and capacity to play smarter not harder. Quarterbacks that don't learn how to use their brain and also put the team's playmakers in a position to succeed while building that necessary trust aren't going to last very long or have a successful career. This league will poke and prod you until your weakness is found and then exploit it until you figure out how to stop the bleeding. RG3 is a qb not a running back, but does he know that? I'm not sure, and that really is the question. Can RG3 learn how to be a QB not a playmaker? His job is to put players in position to succeed and get them the ball not hog the ball and try to be a hero.



Excellent!!! This is an example of someone that has 2 posts and someone that agrees. Robert is going to be fine IMO. Protect the kid now and he will look much better. Post counts don't matter.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:09 pm
by crazyhorse1
KPrince36 wrote:Last season the Redskins offense manned by RG3 made defenses looked dazed and confused by utilizing a great running game, play-action and a good zone read formation highlighted by a very speedy quarterback. The Redskins were in control and being very aggressive on offense. The offense consistently had defenses on their heels and were able to create quite a few match up problems and exploit them. It is obviously a different game this year and one in which the team cannot seem to figure out. The reasons have to be somewhere in between the extreme comments made by us fans and posters. Does RG3 have some problematic weaknesses and is he in danger of not becoming our franchise quarterback that just about everyone thought he would be? Absolutely, but he doesn't need to be benched and criticized like it is all his fault. He is in his 2nd season as a NFL quarterback for crying out loud. Give him some time to develop. Does he have the ability to read defenses and pick apart favorable match ups? I don't know if he has this talent. Obviously some things can be coached and learned but RG3 was also born with a certain potential and skill set. He obviously does not have the proper instincts to avoid hits and play smarter. He wants that contact, and to prove himself as tough or at least he wanted to. The kid could be in the process of being broken or breaking himself by trying to be something he is not. I think we all should start looking at RG3 in a realistic light. He can't even slide the right way for heaven's sake. I think in his heart he would rather take those big hits and challenge defenses with his athletic ability but in his mind he knows that cannot work long term, maybe even simply for the reason he will be knocked out of the NFL and his career drastically shortened. We obviously haven't seen enough of RG3 to know how it is going to turn out, but he is definitely having a very rough start. Being a great or even good NFL quarterback requires a certain mental toughness and capacity to play smarter not harder. Quarterbacks that don't learn how to use their brain and also put the team's playmakers in a position to succeed while building that necessary trust aren't going to last very long or have a successful career. This league will poke and prod you until your weakness is found and then exploit it until you figure out how to stop the bleeding. RG3 is a qb not a running back, but does he know that? I'm not sure, and that really is the question. Can RG3 learn how to be a QB not a playmaker? His job is to put players in position to succeed and get them the ball not hog the ball and try to be a hero.


Too much thought going on here. RG3 was horrible yesterday because his passes were sailing on him. He was flat out inaccurate and cost us maybe three touchdowns. I'm trying to forget that lob twenty yards over Paulsen's head and the hail Mary to the wrong side of the field-- that was just crazy stuff. Work on your passing RG.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:18 pm
by DarthMonk
Fact: Last year RGIII was as accurate as anyone.

Fact: This year RGIII is as inaccurate as anyone.

Question: Why?

Answer that and you'll know where you want him to be.

I say the man that COULD throw guys open, that COULD hit a crossing pattern in stride, that COULD throw a perfect ball to the flag, that COULD hit the 3rd or 4th read, still exists. He needs to escape this season healthy and get a full off season working with his teammates. It might help if we protect better and play a little defense next year too.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:23 pm
by KPrince36
Too much thought going on here. RG3 was horrible yesterday because his passes were sailing on him. He was flat out inaccurate and cost us maybe three touchdowns. I'm trying to forget that lob twenty yards over Paulsen's head and the hail Mary to the wrong side of the field-- that was just crazy stuff. Work on your passing RG.

The point /points I am trying to make is that RG3's problem is not just what you are implying by this post. I can hear Shanahan during Wed. practice already, "Well son you weren't very accurate with the ball last game, we need to work on that." Do you really think RG3 doesn't realize he is having accuracy problems this season and during the last game? I may have a lengthy post but I was covering more than his inaccuracy and trying to get behind why....

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:45 pm
by SkinsJock
StorminMormon86 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Robert Griffin will become the best Redskins QB ever - he has been a disappointment - he will get there …

Lay off the kool-aid...

:lol: that's all you got? give me a break :lol:

This kid is a gifted athlete who I believe has an unbelievable drive to be a part of helping this franchise become a great team

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 4:53 pm
by Kilmer72
There is the glass half full and glass half empty. Depends which side you prefer to look at it. I try to be a glass half full type, but at times it is hard I admit. When I settle down and thinks things through, I usually try to be optimistic as possible because, being a cancer or thorn usually doesn't help.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:16 pm
by SkinsJock
some fans will just always look at this team as "it's the same old Redskins …. "

I am disappointed but I also will always try and look at things from the bright side …

we have our franchise QB - he has not forgotten all the important things about being a good QB - he will get better

Kyle is not as bad an OC as many are making him out to be, there are many very knowledgeable NFL guys out there that 'know' that Kyle is a good OC

this franchise has a really good FO in charge here now and they will find a way to add the pieces to the mix - be it coaching or players, they will be brought in and things will get a lot better here

we have made a lot of good progress the past few years - this will continue to get better

I think we will soon see that things are not near as bad as some here are making them out to be

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 5:29 pm
by riggofan
DarthMonk wrote:Fact: Last year RGIII was as accurate as anyone.

Fact: This year RGIII is as inaccurate as anyone.

Question: Why?

Answer that and you'll know where you want him to be.


Is it the knee injury? Maybe not the injury itself, but being 100% confident in it?

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 10:50 pm
by Deadskins
It's his mechanics. His footwork is still off a little bit, he's trying to too much with just his arm. It stems from the injury and isn't helped by having defenders in his face all the time.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 12:31 am
by OldSchool
Trade Griffin? What franchise would give a first pick or more a gimpy prima Donna that frequently has trouble hitting a barn door with his passes and does read and process quick enough to be effective in the pocket.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:59 am
by SkinsJock
Deadskins wrote:It's his mechanics. His footwork is still off a little bit and he's trying to do too much with just his arm.
It stems from the injury and isn't helped by having defenders in his face all the time.


not sure I fully agree but I do think that what we've seen from the offense (and from Robert) is an aberration
it's really a bit of a mystery when you consider the players we have at QB, RB, TE, WR(s) and LT ….

but

the breakdown that is the Redskins this season is across the board - offense, defense and special teams

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:28 am
by StorminMormon86
SkinsJock wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:
SkinsJock wrote:Robert Griffin will become the best Redskins QB ever - he has been a disappointment - he will get there …

Lay off the kool-aid...

:lol: that's all you got? give me a break :lol:

This kid is a gifted athlete who I believe has an unbelievable drive to be a part of helping this franchise become a great team

He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:54 am
by Deadskins
StorminMormon86 wrote:He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.

I have no idea how old you are, but 23 is just a kid. Especially in the NFL. And, he hit wide open receivers consistently last season, so you can't say he's still unable to do that. As for reading defenses, you have no idea how he's progressing at that, but it's only half way through his second season (with no off-season). You're expecting way too much from him.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 1:01 pm
by Chris Luva Luva
StorminMormon86 wrote:He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.


I love when people reject reality and insert their own. There's nothing correct about this post at all. Nothing. That's what makes it funny. You can't even slap the "opinion" label on this. LOLOLOL

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 6:26 pm
by SkinsJock
Regarding Robert Griffin III
StorminMormon86 wrote: He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.


This might be a shock to you … Tom Brady is 36 …… actually he's over 36 :lol:

Robert is having a difficult time adjusting to playing QB the way Mike and Kyle want him to …

He's been brought up well and has shown that he can be 'trained' - he was a part of the US Olympic track team …

Mike and Kyle Shanahan are recognized by many as being VERY good QB coaches - they will help RG3 become one of the better QBs in the NFL

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 9:38 pm
by Countertrey
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.


I love when people reject reality and insert their own. There's nothing correct about this post at all. Nothing. That's what makes it funny. You can't even slap the "opinion" label on this. LOLOLOL

Sometimes, Chris... you are just...


right. =D>

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:42 pm
by cowboykillerzRGiii
I refuse to read back.. but why the hell has this thread gotten so much attention?! Rgiii is playing as good as most any qb would with a. This awsome pass protection he gets b. All the amazing wrs who continually get seperation right away c. The shut down D we have to back him up and d. The terrific play calling he gets every game- ie 7 pass attempts in one half. Some people expect the world from the kid and think cousins is Jesus in burgandy uniform... And some people are straight up retarded. Wake up people, its a TEAM sport. This places pisses me off more then losing these days I swear get a grip!

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:48 am
by StorminMormon86
Chris Luva Luva wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.


I love when people reject reality and insert their own. There's nothing correct about this post at all. Nothing. That's what makes it funny. You can't even slap the "opinion" label on this. LOLOLOL

So what is the reality then? Did you watch the game against the Eagles last Sunday? His completion percentage was below 50%, he missed wide open receivers, blew a touchdown to Paulsen...where is this distorted reality where he's playing great and hitting wide open receivers?

I don't want to trade him, bench him, cut him or any other idiotic things you see on message boards and comment sections of articles. But I refuse to keep making excuses for the guy. The only excuse that should be made is that he can get better, because I think he can.

Re: Trade Rg3 while his stock is still high

Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:53 am
by StorminMormon86
Deadskins wrote:
StorminMormon86 wrote:He's 23. Not a kid. And despite his drive, he's still unable to read defenses and hit wide open receivers on crucial plays.

I have no idea how old you are, but 23 is just a kid. Especially in the NFL. And, he hit wide open receivers consistently last season, so you can't say he's still unable to do that. As for reading defenses, you have no idea how he's progressing at that, but it's only half way through his second season (with no off-season). You're expecting way too much from him.

I hate when people refer to anyone over the age of 21 as a "kid". He's an adult. "Young man" would even be better. Because he's not a kid, and shouldn't be excused as such. And my comment in reference to him still being unable to hit the receivers is based off of the reps he's gotten this season. We're going into week 12 now, the no off season is becoming a tired excuse.