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Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:It was also my intent to put this RGIII is 100% crap to rest.

And yet you failed again. Nothing you wrote shows that he's not 100% healthy. You can argue all day that the brace, or his confidence in the knee is limiting his mobility, but there is absolutely no evidence that the knee is not fully healed. In fact, I'd say that all the evidence points to the knee being physically fine.

So him being caught by 300 pound lineman, the team not running the read option as it did last year are not GLARING SIGNS that his knee isn't 100% Okay your just one of them people that will continue to bust his head against a brick wall knowing it hurts.....

No, those events have more to do with rule changes (the defense can now hit the QB on read option plays), how defenses have adapted, and the play calls being made by KS, than with the health of Robert's knee. He was caught plenty last year too, you just didn't focus on it. Did you not see him run away from the Detroit defenders on his ~40 yard scramble where he fumbled at the end? Didn't you see him extend the play against the Raiders, where he passed to Helu? THOSE are glaring signs that his knee IS 100%. But I guess you're one of those people who will keep banging his head against a brick wall trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Rule changes don't have JACK TO DO with speed. It has JACK TO DO WITH Connor Barwin, Willie Young those just to name a few, sorry what do rules have to do with in Connor's case catching him FROM BEHIND? in Willie Young's case catching up to him on a bad angle? Sorry that one 25 yard run was a anomaly IMHO. To me you can't look at various pressures, sacks and then use ONE decent run to say no he does have speed, Peyton Manning looked pretty fast too last sunday on that one QB keeper for a TD too, but I guess he too is now fast too right?


Willie Young 40 time 4.88
Conner Barwin 40 time 4.59

RGIII 40 time 4.38 Now is it so far a reach to think that with the injury and that brace RGIII probably has about a 5.0 40 time plus less explosion to hit top speed??

Sorry I don't think so....Heck even Pierre said he isn't as fast.....DUH that speaks volumes people........

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:It was also my intent to put this RGIII is 100% crap to rest.

And yet you failed again. Nothing you wrote shows that he's not 100% healthy. You can argue all day that the brace, or his confidence in the knee is limiting his mobility, but there is absolutely no evidence that the knee is not fully healed. In fact, I'd say that all the evidence points to the knee being physically fine.

So him being caught by 300 pound lineman, the team not running the read option as it did last year are not GLARING SIGNS that his knee isn't 100% Okay your just one of them people that will continue to bust his head against a brick wall knowing it hurts.....

No, those events have more to do with rule changes (the defense can now hit the QB on read option plays), how defenses have adapted, and the play calls being made by KS, than with the health of Robert's knee. He was caught plenty last year too, you just didn't focus on it. Did you not see him run away from the Detroit defenders on his ~40 yard scramble where he fumbled at the end? Didn't you see him extend the play against the Raiders, where he passed to Helu? THOSE are glaring signs that his knee IS 100%. But I guess you're one of those people who will keep banging his head against a brick wall trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Rule changes don't have JACK TO DO with speed. It has JACK TO DO WITH Connor Barwin, Willie Young those just to name a few, sorry what do rules have to do with in Connor's case catching him FROM BEHIND? in Willie Young's case catching up to him on a bad angle? Sorry that one 25 yard run was a anomaly IMHO. To me you can't look at various pressures, sacks and then use ONE decent run to say no he does have speed, Peyton Manning looked pretty fast too last sunday on that one QB keeper for a TD too, but I guess he too is now fast too right?


Willie Young 40 time 4.88
Conner Barwin 40 time 4.59

RGIII 40 time 4.38 Now is it so far a reach to think that with the injury and that brace RGIII probably has about a 5.0 40 time plus less explosion to hit top speed??

Sorry I don't think so....Heck even Pierre said he isn't as fast.....DUH that speaks volumes people........

The rule/defensive/play calling changes weren't meant as an explanation of why you think he's not as fast. That was to explain why we are not running the read option as much as we did last year. As to one play not showing that he does have speed, I ask why not? If he can run that fast on one play, why does that not mean he can run that fast? I don't understand your logic. If it's the brace that is slowing him down, that still doesn't prove that his knee isn't 100% healthy, which is what you keep claiming. Again, he was caught by D linemen plenty of times last year, you just didn't focus on it. Players in this league are fast. Mike Vick gets sacked more than any other QB, does that mean he's not fast or elusive?

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:It was also my intent to put this RGIII is 100% crap to rest.

And yet you failed again. Nothing you wrote shows that he's not 100% healthy. You can argue all day that the brace, or his confidence in the knee is limiting his mobility, but there is absolutely no evidence that the knee is not fully healed. In fact, I'd say that all the evidence points to the knee being physically fine.

So him being caught by 300 pound lineman, the team not running the read option as it did last year are not GLARING SIGNS that his knee isn't 100% Okay your just one of them people that will continue to bust his head against a brick wall knowing it hurts.....

No, those events have more to do with rule changes (the defense can now hit the QB on read option plays), how defenses have adapted, and the play calls being made by KS, than with the health of Robert's knee. He was caught plenty last year too, you just didn't focus on it. Did you not see him run away from the Detroit defenders on his ~40 yard scramble where he fumbled at the end? Didn't you see him extend the play against the Raiders, where he passed to Helu? THOSE are glaring signs that his knee IS 100%. But I guess you're one of those people who will keep banging his head against a brick wall trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Rule changes don't have JACK TO DO with speed. It has JACK TO DO WITH Connor Barwin, Willie Young those just to name a few, sorry what do rules have to do with in Connor's case catching him FROM BEHIND? in Willie Young's case catching up to him on a bad angle? Sorry that one 25 yard run was a anomaly IMHO. To me you can't look at various pressures, sacks and then use ONE decent run to say no he does have speed, Peyton Manning looked pretty fast too last sunday on that one QB keeper for a TD too, but I guess he too is now fast too right?


Willie Young 40 time 4.88
Conner Barwin 40 time 4.59

RGIII 40 time 4.38 Now is it so far a reach to think that with the injury and that brace RGIII probably has about a 5.0 40 time plus less explosion to hit top speed??

Sorry I don't think so....Heck even Pierre said he isn't as fast.....DUH that speaks volumes people........

The rule/defensive/play calling changes weren't meant as an explanation of why you think he's not as fast. That was to explain why we are not running the read option as much as we did last year. As to one play not showing that he does have speed, I ask why not? If he can run that fast on one play, why does that not mean he can run that fast? I don't understand your logic. If it's the brace that is slowing him down, that still doesn't prove that his knee isn't 100% healthy, which is what you keep claiming. Again, he was caught by D linemen plenty of times last year, you just didn't focus on it. Players in this league are fast. Mike Vick gets sacked more than any other QB, does that mean he's not fast or elusive?

Prior to this year Vick wasn't really used in a read option type offense and the tackles came from him dropping back and not having the intent to run. So yes of course he has been tackled more, along with the amount of years he has been in the league. Also you keep claiming that he was caught by plenty of D lineman last year, yes he was again when it was a passing play where he was not meant to run, name me one time last year that he was caught running side line to either sideline on a designed run, name me one time last year where a defensive lineman caught him from behind, and then add in the amount of yards he was behind him. I also understand players are fast in this league but again for me, RGIII isn't as fast, isn't as elusive as he was last year and the defenses that we have faced have pretty much pinned their ears back and came to hit RGIII and RGIII hasn't done anything to make any other defense second guess themselves. As bad as the Eagles defense is they looked damn near like the 85 Bears D when they played us, and did RGIII do anything but put up garbage numbers when the game was already decided? No he didn't, let's fast forward to week 2 even with Clay Matthews pretty much taken out the game thanks to Williams did RGIII do anything to make them pay? Even with second string secondary players starting? No he didn't and furthermore missed players open, or threw ball behind the receivers cause he wasn't stepping into his throws cause of the Elephant in the room HIS KNEE, seems to me with a brace on that big you step into your throws cause the brace catches the bulk of the pressure. Let's fast forward to week 3 the Detroit lions where Suh and Fairley pretty much were non issues, other than one play where he scrambled and ended up fumbling what did he do to make the Lions pay? Almost get caught heading out of bounds to throw that bone head interception? Seems to me great players do great things and when it comes time for RGIII to do something that he did with regularity last year he has come up short each and every time, and I believe that knee and the lack of confidence he has in it, along with the brace that is obviously slowing him down even more along with the knee not being 100% is the cause of all these said issues. Sorry again a rule change doesn't take away your explosiveness or your speed, age, injury and bulky equipment do that, nothing else. As they say you can't teach speed and either you have it, or you don't. RGIII up to this point didn't have it PERIOD...........

sorry DaSkinz - I just think you're over the top on this ... I agree that RG3 has not been as effective at running the offense as last year but I agree with JSPB - I don't think it's all to do with his not being "100% healthy" or 'as fast' as he used to be

RG3 is a special talent at QB - he's trying to be the QB that Kyle and Mike want this year rather than what we saw last year where Kyle and Mike devised an offense that suited what RG3 had done in college
this year with the change in rules and Kyle/Mike wanting a different variation in the offensive game planning, we are seeing a RG3 that is 'struggling' to be something that he's not that 'comfortable' with ... YET
the offense will get better and we'll soon all see RG3 back to showing off his world class speed to extend plays or get some extra yards

I do NOT think that RG3's speed or running was affected by the injury or the operation
when you have the ability to run like he does you do not become a 'slow' runner as you are implying - you have it or you don't - I believe RG3 still has it

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:It was also my intent to put this RGIII is 100% crap to rest.

And yet you failed again. Nothing you wrote shows that he's not 100% healthy. You can argue all day that the brace, or his confidence in the knee is limiting his mobility, but there is absolutely no evidence that the knee is not fully healed. In fact, I'd say that all the evidence points to the knee being physically fine.

So him being caught by 300 pound lineman, the team not running the read option as it did last year are not GLARING SIGNS that his knee isn't 100% Okay your just one of them people that will continue to bust his head against a brick wall knowing it hurts.....

No, those events have more to do with rule changes (the defense can now hit the QB on read option plays), how defenses have adapted, and the play calls being made by KS, than with the health of Robert's knee. He was caught plenty last year too, you just didn't focus on it. Did you not see him run away from the Detroit defenders on his ~40 yard scramble where he fumbled at the end? Didn't you see him extend the play against the Raiders, where he passed to Helu? THOSE are glaring signs that his knee IS 100%. But I guess you're one of those people who will keep banging his head against a brick wall trying to convince yourself otherwise.

Rule changes don't have JACK TO DO with speed. It has JACK TO DO WITH Connor Barwin, Willie Young those just to name a few, sorry what do rules have to do with in Connor's case catching him FROM BEHIND? in Willie Young's case catching up to him on a bad angle? Sorry that one 25 yard run was a anomaly IMHO. To me you can't look at various pressures, sacks and then use ONE decent run to say no he does have speed, Peyton Manning looked pretty fast too last sunday on that one QB keeper for a TD too, but I guess he too is now fast too right?


Willie Young 40 time 4.88
Conner Barwin 40 time 4.59

RGIII 40 time 4.38 Now is it so far a reach to think that with the injury and that brace RGIII probably has about a 5.0 40 time plus less explosion to hit top speed??

Sorry I don't think so....Heck even Pierre said he isn't as fast.....DUH that speaks volumes people........

The rule/defensive/play calling changes weren't meant as an explanation of why you think he's not as fast. That was to explain why we are not running the read option as much as we did last year. As to one play not showing that he does have speed, I ask why not? If he can run that fast on one play, why does that not mean he can run that fast? I don't understand your logic. If it's the brace that is slowing him down, that still doesn't prove that his knee isn't 100% healthy, which is what you keep claiming. Again, he was caught by D linemen plenty of times last year, you just didn't focus on it. Players in this league are fast. Mike Vick gets sacked more than any other QB, does that mean he's not fast or elusive?

Prior to this year Vick wasn't really used in a read option type offense and the tackles came from him dropping back and not having the intent to run. So yes of course he has been tackled more, along with the amount of years he has been in the league. Also you keep claiming that he was caught by plenty of D lineman last year, yes he was again when it was a passing play where he was not meant to run, name me one time last year that he was caught running side line to either sideline on a designed run, name me one time last year where a defensive lineman caught him from behind, and then add in the amount of yards he was behind him. I also understand players are fast in this league but again for me, RGIII isn't as fast, isn't as elusive as he was last year and the defenses that we have faced have pretty much pinned their ears back and came to hit RGIII and RGIII hasn't done anything to make any other defense second guess themselves. As bad as the Eagles defense is they looked damn near like the 85 Bears D when they played us, and did RGIII do anything but put up garbage numbers when the game was already decided? No he didn't, let's fast forward to week 2 even with Clay Matthews pretty much taken out the game thanks to Williams did RGIII do anything to make them pay? Even with second string secondary players starting? No he didn't and furthermore missed players open, or threw ball behind the receivers cause he wasn't stepping into his throws cause of the Elephant in the room HIS KNEE, seems to me with a brace on that big you step into your throws cause the brace catches the bulk of the pressure. Let's fast forward to week 3 the Detroit lions where Suh and Fairley pretty much were non issues, other than one play where he scrambled and ended up fumbling what did he do to make the Lions pay? Almost get caught heading out of bounds to throw that bone head interception? Seems to me great players do great things and when it comes time for RGIII to do something that he did with regularity last year he has come up short each and every time, and I believe that knee and the lack of confidence he has in it, along with the brace that is obviously slowing him down even more along with the knee not being 100% is the cause of all these said issues. Sorry again a rule change doesn't take away your explosiveness or your speed, age, injury and bulky equipment do that, nothing else. As they say you can't teach speed and either you have it, or you don't. RGIII up to this point didn't have it PERIOD...........

Sorry, but you can't name me one time THIS season where RGIII has been caught on a designed run. We didn't even run the read option until the third game, and then only once, maybe twice the entire game.

SkinsJock wrote:sorry DaSkinz - I just think you're over the top on this ... I agree that RG3 has not been as effective at running the offense as last year but I agree with JSPB - I don't think it's all to do with his not being "100% healthy" or 'as fast' as he used to be

I think this kid is a special talent at QB and he's trying to be the QB that Kyle and Mike want this year rather than what we saw last year where Kyle and Mike devised an offense that suited what RG3 had done in college
this year with the change in rules and Kyle/Mike wanting a different variation in the offensive game planning, we are seeing a RG3 that is 'struggling' to be something that he's not that 'comfortable' with ... YET
the offense will get better and we'll soon all see RG3 back to showing off his world class speed to extend plays or get some extra yards

RG3 did NOT get 'slower' because of the injury or the operation - when you have the ability to run like he does you do not become a 'slow' runner as you are implying - you have it or you don't - I believe RG3 still has it

Skinsjock RGIII is a special talent, I agree 100000% I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division and to have a second year rookie coming off a major surgery undue everything that makes him a threat to try to turn him into Brady or Manning and it's not injury OR injury related seems stupid, retarded and simply unthinkable. But who knows maybe I am over the top, maybe your over the top or maybe we are both over the top and dead wrong on all our assumptions and opinions. Maybe last year just meant so much to me that seeing the same old lame, tired pathetic team that I have seen prior to last year has me paranoid. Maybe I need to back away from the ledge and hit the nearest liquor store and drink myself into oblivion and hope that whatever bass ackward path Shanny has us on doesn't get to be as bad as I fear, but even if it does, there is always Madden 25 to play......

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

I thought that as long as he makes it known he is a defenseless player or holds his hands up he can't be hit......Is that not the case???

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

I don't understand why there is any great mystery to this. All season long last year fans and media complained that the Shanahans were going to get RGIII killed if they continued using him the way they were. To prove their point, he ended up getting hurt. Twice.

I'm not saying RGIII has to be or even can be a traditional pocket passer. But if we want to keep him on the field, its no big surprise that we need to change what we were doing last year at least a little bit.

Deadskins point about defenses learning to defend the read option better is 100% right too.

DaSkinz Baby wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

I thought that as long as he makes it known he is a defenseless player or holds his hands up he can't be hit......Is that not the case???

Yes, but you're not going to fool many people into thinking you still have the ball when you throw your hands up and make it known you are defenseless.

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

I don't understand why there is any great mystery to this. All season long last year fans and media complained that the Shanahans were going to get RGIII killed if they continued using him the way they were. To prove their point, he ended up getting hurt. Twice.

I'm not saying RGIII has to be or even can be a traditional pocket passer. But if we want to keep him on the field, its no big surprise that we need to change what we were doing last year at least a little bit.

Deadskins point about defenses learning to defend the read option better is 100% right too.

The two plays where he got hurt were passes where he scrambled, not read option designed runs.

Deadskins wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Deadskins wrote:

DaSkinz Baby wrote:I just can't see a way to understand or interpret the reason to "fix what isn't broken" to totally go away from what you did best to win the division

The rule changes and defensive adjustments are the reason. RGIII would get hit on every play if we tried to run the read option as much as we did last year. I don't think you want that, do you?

I don't understand why there is any great mystery to this. All season long last year fans and media complained that the Shanahans were going to get RGIII killed if they continued using him the way they were. To prove their point, he ended up getting hurt. Twice.

I'm not saying RGIII has to be or even can be a traditional pocket passer. But if we want to keep him on the field, its no big surprise that we need to change what we were doing last year at least a little bit.

Deadskins point about defenses learning to defend the read option better is 100% right too.

The two plays where he got hurt were passes where he scrambled, not read option designed runs.

This seems even more of a reason for me to scratch my head as to all of a sudden turning a duel threat QB into a drop back arm chair QB. We are taking away what makes us a dangerous team and further exposing our shortcomings. Sorry but our offensive line isn't good enough for consistent pass protection.......

The NFL went to great lengths to make sure that offenses and defenses were aware that the refs would look at a QB as a runner and not as a QB this season ...
offenses have had to adapt to this - the Redskins have not 'adapted' as quickly as we'd all like

we still have RG3 as our QB and he will be the best Redskins QB ever - how lucky are we