The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

This franchise has done an incredibly good job recently adding those players that make the other players here better and creating an atmosphere where everybody understands that they're going to get a shot at making the roster

the competition for roster spots is ONLY based on what you're going to do and not on what you've done - this has made a huge difference in the way plays are run and executed on the practice field and on Sundays

Everyone understands that you earn your plays on both offense and defense and the players are striving to get more opportunities to shine


the WR corp is going to be tough - there are only a few spots available and a number of candidates to fill them
Hankerson has the talent ... he just needs to step it up a notch

Chris Luva Luva wrote: If anyone is in danger of being unseated, it's Briscoe.

+1

In our system I don't believe he can have a "breakout" year. I feel that in our system receivers are rotated at such a high rate and RG3 spread the ball around somewhat evenly.

There is nothing wrong with spreading it around at all (see New Orleans Saints WR effectiveness). To the average fan or critic you may look at the numbers and think our receivers need to improve, however if you watch the games you will see that we are one of the lowest pass attempt per game teams in the NFL and Kyle/Mike likes to rotate our WRs to keep them fresh. Our running game is the strength of the team and the Shanahans are known for it.

I just feel that he will improve as a player but you may not see it as much in the numbers. He should be more comfortable and you cant forget last he was not healthy during the offseason.

As long as he continues to improve on his route running and catching the football I'm ok with him.

The Hogster wrote:The Garcon injury can skew the team stats based on rankings last year. If Garcon were healthy, he would have lead the team in receptions, yards, probably every stat. Nonetheless, I agree with the points made here. I like Morgan, I just think that Hankerson offers a greater upside.

If you go back to college, Morgan has always been a minimal touchdown guy. In other words, he is a great complimentary receiver, but Hankerson could become a guy who can score more frequently--a play maker--but he has to prove he can do the other things better than Morgan, which he apparently wasn't able to do just yet.

I hope Morgan is 100% and I hope Hankerson improves. This is a good problem to have though!

HAIL

Hankerson's potential as a touchdown force is what I've heard about him. From what I've read it takes a couple of seasons to bring receivers to a playmaker level. Rare are the wr's like Calvin Johnson and Randy Moss who are monsters right out the gate.

mastdark81 wrote:In our system I don't believe he can have a "breakout" year. I feel that in our system receivers are rotated at such a high rate and RG3 spread the ball around somewhat evenly.

That's a fair point. Probably more true too if we see the TEs getting more involved this year too.

I'd still argue though that seeing more big plays out of Hankerson this year would qualify as a breakout year for him. If people remember him more this year for big time TDs than they do for dropped balls, that would be huge.

What's funny about the whole "fan perspective" thing... That ya the pitti drop is remembered, but what happened to all the "hanktime!!!" And "hail ya hank!" And "there ya go leo!" Chants we posted in all of the game day threads??
Personally, I remember a great year of growth for Hankerson and some extremely clutch, and crucial, first downs. Maybe no game winning TDs but for sure game winning drive-extending catches. He can do better, but I was not at all dissapointed...
As for Morgan, he played hungry! Had a mean streak about him and fought for every inch. I for one can't wait to see the ball in his hands, and expect a Morgan fan base to pop up this year as he makes big plays.
Garçon
Morgan
Hankerson
Robinson

Those are our guys, with Moss sprinkled in and passing on wisdom. My biased eyes see that lineup as pretty stout, especially with the accuracy of the best qb in the NFCE slingn the ball to em!
HAIL

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:He can do better, but I was not at all dissapointed...

That about sums it up for me too. All things considered last year, I thought Hankerson did ok for us.

The "he can do better" is the interesting part!

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:What's funny about the whole "fan perspective" thing... That ya the pitti drop is remembered, but what happened to all the "hanktime!!!" And "hail ya hank!" And "there ya go leo!" Chants we posted in all of the game day threads??
Personally, I remember a great year of growth for Hankerson and some extremely clutch, and crucial, first downs. Maybe no game winning TDs but for sure game winning drive-extending catches. He can do better, but I was not at all dissapointed...
As for Morgan, he played hungry! Had a mean streak about him and fought for every inch. I for one can't wait to see the ball in his hands, and expect a Morgan fan base to pop up this year as he makes big plays.
Garçon
Morgan
Hankerson
Robinson

Those are our guys, with Moss sprinkled in and passing on wisdom. My biased eyes see that lineup as pretty stout, especially with the accuracy of the best qb in the NFCE slingn the ball to em!
HAIL

Agreed. You'd think RGIII was passing to himself the way some guys get ragged on. lol

Rich Tandler @Rich_TandlerCSN

Didn't mention this in my report but Hankerson seems to be catching the ball better, doesn't fight with it like he did last year. #Redskins
8:30 PM - 23 May 2013

2012 was his sophmore year, right? 2011, he was drafted during the lockout and a shortened off season? Correct me if I'm wrong.

If my thoughts are true, then this would be his third year. And if you want to be fair, it truly isn't 3 full offseasons. Typically, it takes WR's 3-4 years to really come into their own.



Let's look at the numbers...


In 2011 Hankerson...

- Played in 4 games
- 13 receptions
- targeted 20 times
- for 163 yards
- average 12.5 yards per catch
- longest reception was 23 yards
- 0 TD's
- 8 catches for a first down
- 0 fumbles

In 2012 Hankerson...

- Played 16 games
- 38 receptions
- 57 targets
- for 543 yards
- 14.3 yards per catch
- longest reception was 68 yards
- 3 TD's
- 25 catches for a first down
- 0 fumbles

More perspective on Hankersons 2012 campaign.

Pro Football Focus ranked him 13th in its wide receiver rating metric (among players who got 25 percent of his team's targets), which is quarterback rating on passes thrown to each receiver. He was efficient last season, and Griffin is certainly talented enough to make any good receiver a star.

Leonard Hankerson - WR - Redskins

Leonard Hankerson has continued to struggle with inconsistency early in training camp.

Hankerson had a drop in one-on-one drills in Saturday's practice, and coach Mike Shanahan noticed. "He’s got to be more consistent, not only blocking but catching the short route, the deep route," said Shanahan. "He has to have that concentration level." Hankerson is working behind Josh Morgan at Z receiver.

Source: Washington Times Jul 28 - 4:10 PM

People can throw around all the #s they want, but Hankerson hasn't turned into the type of receiver expected. The same thing was done for Jason Campbell a while back (i.e., throwing out #s in an attempt to support something that is clearly not there). In the NFL, talent is clear. If a player has "it", you don't need to throw up stats to prove it. No one needs to defend Garcon or Moss. People don't even have to defend Morgan --- who actually had WORSE stats than LH last year.

People claim receivers improve from year 3 to 4 and they may be true in isolated cases, but what have we seen from LH that would cause you to believe this will happen for him? Better yet, would you put $$$ on it?

And I wouldn't take much from the training camp reports. Basically everything that is said will have a positive spin on it --- and if it doesn't (like the washington times report).... uh oh.....

The bottom line is that everyone wants LH to improve and become the WR we expected. But it hasn't happened.

markshark84 wrote:People can throw around all the #s they want, but Hankerson hasn't turned into the type of receiver expected.

Who's expectations? Are you referring to the often unrealistic and often uneducated expectations of fans? I'd agree with that.

markshark84 wrote:People can throw around all the #s they want, but Hankerson hasn't turned into the type of receiver expected.

I dunno man. If you can't judge a WR on his yards, catches and TDs, what exactly ARE you judging him on? Gut feeling?

markshark84 wrote:The bottom line is that everyone wants LH to improve and become the WR we expected. But it hasn't happened.

I just don't know what you mean by the "WR we expected". For all his potential, the guy was still a third round draft pick and broke his hip the first year. I wasn't expecting him to be Calvin Johnson last year. Steve Smith was a third round WR pick. Go take a look at his stats his first two years.

Anyway I think he's been okay - and thankfully he's no Malcolm Kelly! But I think its reasonable to expect that he should be living up to his potential in year three.

His receptions, yards & TD exceeded Henderson & Stallworth COMBINED last year.

yupchagee wrote:His receptions, yards & TD exceeded Henderson & Stallworth COMBINED last year.

lol.

I already posted how his numbers have improved from 2011 to 2012, apparently statistical evidence isn't enough for him. Lol. U know, who lets things like facts get in the way?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:I already posted how his numbers have improved from 2011 to 2012, apparently statistical evidence isn't enough for him. Lol. U know, who lets things like facts get in the way?

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wasn't there a stat in another thread showing that Garcon, Morgan and Moss dropped a higher percentage of passes than him? If anything, Hankerson needs to improve on his agility. He gets off kilter easily, it seems.

Yep:

Per PFF, Hankerson was targeted 55 times and he had 38 receptions and three drops. That gives him a drop rate of 7.32 percent. Of the 82 NFL wide receivers who played at least 25 percent of their teams’ snaps that is the 28th-best drop rate.

That’s not great but it was the best on the team. Pierre Garçon caught 44 passes and dropped five, a drop rate of 10.2 percent (51st in the NFL). Josh Morgan’s caught 48 and dropped seven for a rate of 12.73 percent (67th). Santana Moss, with six drops and 41 receptions had a rate of 12.77 (68th).

All the "drop" statistics I've seen are terrible

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

riggofan wrote:

Chris Luva Luva wrote:Wasn't there a stat in another thread showing that Garcon, Morgan and Moss dropped a higher percentage of passes than him? If anything, Hankerson needs to improve on his agility. He gets off kilter easily, it seems.

Yep:

Per PFF, Hankerson was targeted 55 times and he had 38 receptions and three drops. That gives him a drop rate of 7.32 percent. Of the 82 NFL wide receivers who played at least 25 percent of their teams’ snaps that is the 28th-best drop rate.

That’s not great but it was the best on the team. Pierre Garçon caught 44 passes and dropped five, a drop rate of 10.2 percent (51st in the NFL). Josh Morgan’s caught 48 and dropped seven for a rate of 12.73 percent (67th). Santana Moss, with six drops and 41 receptions had a rate of 12.77 (68th).

All the "drop" statistics I've seen are terrible

For him, or the team?

Chris Luva Luva wrote:

KazooSkinsFan wrote:

riggofan wrote: Yep:

All the "drop" statistics I've seen are terrible

For him, or the team?

I was unclear, wasn't I? What I meant though was that the statistics themselves are terrible. I don't believe or trust them. I haven't seen any that make sense to me in terms of how they measure "drops."