The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

emoses14 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:There were a lot of non-calls in the game.

As for execution - Kap missed a wide open dude early leading to a FG. On the other two "biggest plays" the Ravens zero blitzed (on the 2-point try and on the final offensive play by the Niners) and the Niners could not make either play.

If Crab had simply bolted for the corner it was probalby a TD. It was a hot read and the defender was playing inside. Why engage? Where was the pistol when they had 4 tries from the 7?

The game was pretty much a coin flip.

Had the Niners scored at the end they would have gone for 2 to establish a 3 point lead - something they would not have needed to try had they simply kicked for 1 point at the 9:57 mark. I know they were trying to tie it up but 10 minutes is a lot of football. They also threw away 2 time outs.

No one to blame but themselves ultimately.

All of this is absolutely true. And, imho, absolutely irrelevant with respect to the hold that was not called on 4th and goal at the end of the game. Rules are rules and swallowing the whistle there was (football wise) unconscionable.

But it wasn't my team that got hosed, so I suppose its not worth really bothering with.

Not to mention, it still means the Redskins come back in '88 is still the largest deficit overcome to win a SB.

I agree and disagree. It is relevant in this regard - one call didn't decide the game. If every other call were perfect then maybe.

I wanted the Ravens to lose but at least the Niners lost.

DarthMonk wrote:

emoses14 wrote:

DarthMonk wrote:There were a lot of non-calls in the game.

As for execution - Kap missed a wide open dude early leading to a FG. On the other two "biggest plays" the Ravens zero blitzed (on the 2-point try and on the final offensive play by the Niners) and the Niners could not make either play.

If Crab had simply bolted for the corner it was probalby a TD. It was a hot read and the defender was playing inside. Why engage? Where was the pistol when they had 4 tries from the 7?

The game was pretty much a coin flip.

Had the Niners scored at the end they would have gone for 2 to establish a 3 point lead - something they would not have needed to try had they simply kicked for 1 point at the 9:57 mark. I know they were trying to tie it up but 10 minutes is a lot of football. They also threw away 2 time outs.

No one to blame but themselves ultimately.

All of this is absolutely true. And, imho, absolutely irrelevant with respect to the hold that was not called on 4th and goal at the end of the game. Rules are rules and swallowing the whistle there was (football wise) unconscionable.

But it wasn't my team that got hosed, so I suppose its not worth really bothering with.

Not to mention, it still means the Redskins come back in '88 is still the largest deficit overcome to win a SB.

I agree and disagree. It is relevant in this regard - one call didn't decide the game. If every other call were perfect then maybe.

I wanted the Ravens to lose but at least the Niners lost.

Fair enough

cowboykillerzRGiii wrote:I think of it like a fight.. don't leave it up to the judges. The whinners did. Played pike crap until the blackout, and didn't deserve a close call. Was it within the five yards? Was it accidental, was the ball in the air, was it two sided? How catchable was the ball?
I wouldnt have called it. That important of a play, that big, a little bumpin is allowed. Let em play. Kap shoulda put a better throw on him or maybe a better call.. or maybe not turn the ball over earlier. Champs don't leave it in the hands of the refs. Good non call.

Last long post on this. I swear.

This line of logic always makes me smile. The whinners left it up to the judges? Really? You mean the whinners ran a play that was "stopped" in such a manner that was AGAINST THE RULES and their bringing it up is whinning? OK! Everything that happened before or after that play is, again, irrelevant to the point.

The argument would be precisely the reverse if the call was made, if the 49rs had scored, subsequently. EXCEPT the nevermore fans would be complaining about having to defend x more plays and getting scored on in one of them. That would be the players deciding it. And that is the point. In my view the blatant hold and no-call did leave it up to the judges, and not the players. That big of a moment shouldn't be decided by cheating, it should be decided by the players. The proper call creates a first down, if the Ravens are such hot crap, then stop 'em. They didn't. They held the pivotal player on the play at the point of attack. It doesn't matter how he "should have" run the route, "Kap putting a better ball" or anything else not related to the defenders 2 arms being draped around Crababpple's arms and holding his jersey. Everything else is beside the point. And that was not a "little bumpin." That's my problem with it. If it was a clean play, even with just a bump, then no problem, but it most definitely wasn't.


Basically this boils down to the ends justify the means. Since they didn't score, everything about the manner in which Baltimore defended it is OK, because, hell, they're the champs? Come on. 1. They weren't champs when it happened and 2. of course they left it in the hands of the ref by cheating and then hoping that the ref wouldn't make the proper call (coincidentally this is Baltimore's best defensive strategy, just ask Ed Reed)

Don't leave it up to the judges? Then what the hell are they on the field for? IF it the idea was to do whatever in the hell you want, rules be damned, we'd have the kind of anarchy or near anarchy we had with the replacement refs (e.g. the Skins-Rams game) which I'm pretty sure everyone around here hated.

Look, mistakes are made, and that is part of the game, the human element. However, there are times when it is especially important not to make them, particularly at critical moments. I think that play, at that point in the game, given the circumstances, is one of those times.

Just one, other, man's opinion:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/whit ... ugh-020413

The NFL got exactly what it wanted from referee Jerome Boger and the crew that worked the Super Bowl.

Roger Goodell wanted an officiating crew that would get out of the way and let the players be the stars.

For the past 15 years and spurred by the popularity of HD TV, NFL refs have been horning in on the players’ spotlight. The refs like being stars. They like being recognized. Ed Hochuli’s guns have become as well-known as Deion’s high-step.

Goodell wants to end this. He doesn’t want officiating stars. That’s why the NFL worked its system to assign a mediocre, nondescript ref to the Super Bowl. According to Boger’s jealous peers, his season-long grades did not justify his Super Bowl selection. Speculation quickly asserted the NFL manipulated its grading system so that an African-American ref could lead the Super Bowl.

If that were the case, Mike Carey would’ve been the easy choice. He’s worked the Super Bowl before and he’s highly regarded.

Nope. Goodell was after something different. Goodell wanted a ref who would stay out of the way, a crew that wouldn’t take over the game. And that’s what the league got.


Boger and his crew swallowed their flags from start to finish. They entered the stadium determined not to be the story when the game was over. Guess what? They’re the story. Jim Harbaugh was irate there was no defensive holding or pass interference called on San Fran’s last offensive play.

Boger and Co. spent the entire evening trying to avoid throwing their flags. Baltimore cornerback Cary Williams shoved an official and should’ve been tossed from the game in the first half. There was no flag.

Two of the most physical and emotional teams in football collided on Sunday and there were just seven penalties all day. The refs called the obvious stuff — two for offside, one facemask, an illegal formation. There wasn’t one holding call all game and there was just one pass interference call.

The players were free to do whatever they wanted, and Baltimore certainly did at the end of the game.

We all hate it when the refs take over a game. But it’s just as bad when they let the players police themselves. The Super Bowl deserved better officiating. I blame Goodell.

Whitlock's an asshat (not for this column).

emoses is totally right (if I may paraphrase) in saying swallowing the whistle is NOT letting the players decide. You let the players decide by enforcing the rules.

On a different note, remember Bledsoe and Brady? Bledsoe got hurt and after Brady took his place Belichick named Brady the starter for the rest of the year. That's what Harbaugh did with Smith and Kap. There were many arguments about that being the right move or not.

Once the 49ers made it to the Super Bowl the Kap supporters were feeling pretty good. But you know what - Kap played like a guy with only 1/2 a season under his belt - especially in the last series:

Cosell on Kaepernick: “He had brain freezes on two of those final three plays.”
Posted on February 7, 2013 by Grant Cohn
Greg Cosell spoke about the Super Bowl on KNBR Thursday morning. Here’s what he said.

Q: What did you think of the 49ers’ final four offensive plays?

COSELL: Here’s a perfect case where because the plays failed, everybody thinks that they’re bad play calls, therefore something was horribly wrong.

The first play was perfectly understandable because Gore had just run 33 yards and he was not in the next play. So they handed to James from the Pistol, something they’d been very successful with all second half.

The second play, and only Colin Kaepernick could answer this, he rolled out and Michael Crabtree was wide open. If he throws him the ball, it might have been a touchdown. I can’t tell you why Kaepernick didn’t throw him the ball. That was the design of the play. Michael Crabtree was wide open. The third play, I’m convinced that Kaepernick was throwing the ball to Crabtree out of the huddle because (Delanie Walker) was wide open on that side of the field, part of the reading progression.

Here’s the issue we’ve all faced – and I love Colin Kaepernick and I think he’ll be a great player – but because he’s already ascended in people’s minds to this hall of fame level, he’s at the point where he does no wrong. In fact, he had brain freezes on two of those final three plays, either one of which likely would have been a touchdown if he had executed the play properly, but no one will talk about that except me because I’m telling you this from watching the film, so therefore because the plays didn’t work they must have been bad play calls.

And the final play of the game was just Cover Zero blitz, which was the same blitz concept the Ravens did on the two-point conversion, which clearly forced Kaepernick to get rid of it before he wanted to. The same thing happened on the final play. I thought it was going to be a back-shoulder fade, that’s just my sense from watching Crabtree’s route. Kaepernick had to hurry himself because of Ellerbe getting in clean, so the defense won on that play. But the second and third down plays were plays in which Kaepernick simply didn’t execute well-designed plays, either one of which could have been a touchdown.

Q: Shouldn’t the 49ers’ coaches tried to eliminate the young quarterback’s brain freeze by handing the ball off to No.21?

COSELL: What happened was the first half, the Ravens’ D-line dominated. The 49ers couldn’t run the football. They couldn’t get Ngata blocked. They couldn’t get Ellerbe blocked. Gore in the first half only had 11 for 29.

In the second half, they didn’t run the ball real well either until the fourth quarter. Gore had 104 yards, but he had 54 of those yards on two runs. They were both Full House Pistol runs – one was 21 yards and the other was 33 yards – but if you’re talking about sustaining a run game throughout the game, that did not happen. The 49ers did not do that.

Q: Didn’t people think the 49ers’ run game would win that matchup?

COSELL: Yup, and quite frankly they didn’t. Ngata went out late in the third quarter. He was very, very effective in this game through three quarters. They couldn’t get him blocked in the run game consistently. That was a big loss for the Ravens and positive for the Niners.

Q: How did the Ravens jump out to an early lead?

COSELL: I think the secondary had some issues. One thing the Ravens did, which I thought was very smart, was their pass game was a lot more sustaining, a lot shorter throws. They threw the ball in the flat quite a bit, and I think the 49ers never really handled that well. The Ravens were able to make first downs, sustain drives, or make nice gains on first down with throws into the flat.

And then there were some break downs. The long touchdown at the end of the first half to Jacoby Jones, that kind of play can never happen. And it did in a Super Bowl. What they did on that was they singled up Culliver on Jones, they doubled Boldin in the slot and Smith on the other side, and Culliver just played the in cut and was totally out of position with no help over the top. He got beat. It wasn’t a great throw, but he was beat so badly that Jones was still able to catch it get up with room. It was just one of those plays, but a play like that can’t happen in the Super Bowl.

Q: Did Culliver have as bad of a game as it seemed?

COSELL: When you give up a play like that that becomes a touchdown, obviously that play is magnified. I didn’t come away from that game saying, “Oh my God, Culliver was awful,” there was just a couple of plays. There was a pass interference call on a third down.

But there were some plays that the Ravens made – that third and inches play after the challenge by Harbaugh where Flacco audibled. Rogers was all over Boldin. They executed the play at a really high level against unbelievable coverage. That was arguably as big a play in the game as any.

You can’t say they got out-coached. Plays like that help you win games.

Q: Do you ever evaluate officials or have opinions on calls?

COSELL: No. I don’t, and if you’re asking about the final play of the game, my immediate response was that was holding just like NaVorro Bowman held Roddy White two weeks ago. I don’t get into that.

Q: Wasn’t Bowman within the five yards though?

COSELL: You still can’t hold him when the ball is in the air. I don’t get into that stuff. It goes both ways all the time. That stuff to me doesn’t mean anything.

Q: I’m not sure that Bowman held when the ball was in the air.

COSELL: You’re not even allowed to hold within the five yards. You’re allowed to push and shove and be physical, but you can’t hold a guy.

Q: I though Bowman was just being physical, but anyway.

COSELL: I’m sure Falcons fans are saying the same thing 49ers fans are saying now.

Q: Why was the 49ers’ offense so much better after the blackout?

COSELL: I thought they had some success in the first half. Don’t forget, James fumbled after a long drive. I’m not sure we’d be having this conversation if he didn’t fumble.

I told you they would go after Ray Lewis, and they did. If the 49ers had come back to win the game, Ray Lewis arguably could have been the goat in the game. They went after him and had great, great success.

I don’t know if the 49ers’ offense was ever truly shut down. I think as the game went on, Greg Roman got a real good feel for where he could be successful, and then in the second half they were not stopped.

It was a great game. I think with Kaepernick, who’s going to be a really fine player, there’s a lot of positives here. I think the same discussions were had as last year after they lost, although I think there’s probably a more optimistic feeling now because of Kaepernick.