The-Hogs.net - Washington Football Discussion, Redskins to Commanders Era

everydayAskinsday wrote:

Countertrey wrote:You have to have a defense in order to get to the playoffs.

Sam

Sonny.

Done.

Labaron get honorable mention.

Theisman is NOT in the conversation. He and Ryp, were the product of the mind of Gibbs.

not to go off into a whole other debate but a great QB can overcome a poor defense.. look at the Patriots for instance, they have had Defenses routinely ranked in the bottom if not last in the league and they practically make the Super Bowl each year and are a playoff team because of Brady. The Redskins made the playoffs just this past year with a very suspect D but Great QB

but my point was that IMO I think playoffs/ Superbowls are important hence the reason I ranked Sonny lower than all you.

Your argument that the Patriots have a poor Defense is factually wrong. They are flexible, and are superior on a short field. Beyond that, the Patriots frequently grind out yardage... that means, time on the field for the offense... every minute the O is ON the field, the D is NOT. They make the superbowl because they have an excellent Offense that controls the clock, and a Defense that is good enough. In the 60's, the Redskins defense consisted of 4 players. An average defense would have resulted in multiple post season performances.

When you have a quarterback like Sonny (and no running back, which was the case for MOST of Sonny's career)... you will score quickly quite often. That means that you may be losing the TOP war... and, if that's the case, your D had better be pretty darned stout.

Your characterization of this year's Redskins D is also based on a purely statistical analysis... This defense was quite good on a short field... and, like the Patriot's d... played pretty darned well in the second half of the season, and with it's back against the wall.

Y'all got Joey T. too high on your lists. He's not top three. Those slots belong to Sammy, Sonny, and RGIII, not necessarily in that order.

Deadskins wrote:Y'all got Joey T. too high on your lists. He's not top three. Those slots belong to Sammy, Sonny, and RGIII, not necessarily in that order.

Not me... I have only Sam and Christian. No RG3... yet. If productivity remains the same next year, after teams have a chance to study film, then I will START to reconsider.

StorminMormon86 wrote:I didn't want to put Griffin in the top ten just yet, but from what he's shown this year it will only be a matter of time before he is.

Agreed.

The Hogster wrote:

StorminMormon86 wrote:I didn't want to put Griffin in the top ten just yet, but from what he's shown this year it will only be a matter of time before he is.

Agreed.

Ditto.

Countertrey wrote:You have to have a defense in order to get to the playoffs.

Sam

Sonny.

Done.

Lebaron get honorable mention.

Theisman is NOT in the conversation. He and Ryp, were the product of the mind of Gibbs.

+1.

Of course, it's not bad to be produced by one of the all-time great coaches; and Theisman, Rypien, and Doug Williams -- plus Dan Fouts -- were all different. Says a lot about Joe Gibbs that he got the best out of each of them.

I tend to call Sammy the best of all because he made the forward pass a normal part of the offense. The inventor gets extra applause. As an athlete, Slingin Sammy gets extra applause, as well, for his pass defense, his punting, and his running as a single-wing tailback...plus his baseball. As best I remember it, he would have made the St Louis Cardinals except that the Cardinals had an all-star short-stop named Marty Marion.

And Sonny? Merely the best QB I ever saw. How many current QB's are two-for-three left-handed?

1. Sammy Baugh
2. Sonny Jurgensen
3. Joe Theismann
4. RGIII <<<--- so far ... he will go up.
5. Billy Kilmer
6. Mark Rypien
7. Doug Williams
8. Trent Green <<<--- we should have never let him go
9. Gus Frerotte
10. Patrick Ramsey <<<--- could have been much better with a good hc
11. Mark Brunell <<<--- end of his career
12. Norm Snead
13. Jason Campbell <<<--- Joe was never a personnel guy
14. Rex Grossman
15. Donovan McNabb <<<--- end of his career

Should we mention Brad Johnson, Jeff George, Schroeder, and Le Baron among others currently missing?

Brad and Le Baron would be placed somewhere in the upper half of this list. Some disasters like Shuler are better not to be mentioned at all.

I'll bite.

1 Griff
2 Sammy
3 Sonny

DarthMonk wrote:I'll bite.

1 Griff
2 Sammy
3 Sonny

Comparisons across the decades are ridiculous because players are so much better today. In comparison with their peers, if forced to rank, I'd say it was Sammy, Sonny, and then Grif. In relation to sheer ability, it's the other way around, no doubt. Today, neither Sammy nor Sunny in their primes could beat out Grif for a starting position. Based on one year of play, Grif's the best QB in the NFL today, which would be obvious if he hadn't got hurt. Wilson or Kaepernich (sp?) might be the next best. The old hierarchy has lost a step, still great, but not dominating. Luck still has a lot to prove.

How are people putting RGIII in the top 3 right now??

If RGIII never came back and played another down as a Skin, I don't think he would be considered the best QB in skins history as a couple people have decided ---- or even in the top 3.

The potential to be in the top 3 is unquestionably there, but I think people are being a bit too presumptuous.

welch wrote: How many current QB's are two-for-three left-handed?

All the left handed ones.

Shouldn't Brad Johnson be on this list somewhere?

Deadskins wrote:Shouldn't Brad Johnson be on this list somewhere?

He's on mine.

markshark84 wrote:How are people putting RGIII in the top 3 right now??

If RGIII never came back and played another down as a Skin, I don't think he would be considered the best QB in skins history as a couple people have decided ---- or even in the top 3.

The potential to be in the top 3 is unquestionably there, but I think people are being a bit too presumptuous.

I think it all comes down to how people view the question. If it's a rank of the best season's in history by a QB, I think RGIII is Top 3. If it's a rank of the best QBs in terms of their talent, I think he's Top 3. But, for those who are ranking them based on cumulative body of work as a Redskin, then he can't make the Top 3. It's all how you view the question.

Deadskins wrote:

welch wrote: How many current QB's are two-for-three left-handed?

All the left handed ones.

Boing!!

(I hadn't thought of that...but then how many lefty passers completed 66.66 % of their passes?)

markshark84 wrote:How are people putting RGIII in the top 3 right now??

If RGIII never came back and played another down as a Skin, I don't think he would be considered the best QB in skins history as a couple people have decided ---- or even in the top 3.

The potential to be in the top 3 is unquestionably there, but I think people are being a bit too presumptuous.

+1

IMO, picking the top 3 is easy.

Sammy - no one else even close

Sonny - scored 30+ pts and still lost. To bad he didn't play defense as well.

RGIII - loads of talent, rating based performance for 1 yr and will probably change over time.

SKINS#1 wrote:IMO, picking the top 3 is easy.

Sammy - no one else even close

Sonny - scored 30+ pts and still lost. To bad he didn't play defense as well.

RGIII - loads of talent, rating based performance for 1 yr and will probably change over time.

My eye-ball view tells me that Robert Griffin is the best pure passer after Baugh (who was before my time) and Sonny. For Griffin to do that as a rookie is staggering...we should compare him to Jay Shroeder, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, and Jason Campbell, because they started as rookies and had respectable players around them. Griffin looks better, looks like a first-class QB. The others needed to learn.

welch wrote:

SKINS#1 wrote:.we should compare him to Jay Shroeder, Mark Rypien, Stan Humphries, and Jason Campbell, because they started as rookies.

Actually boner of those three started a rookies.

Rypien was drafted in 86 but didn't start a game until 88.
Humphries was drafted in 88 but didn't start a game until 89.
JC was drafted in 05 and didn't start a have until 06.

But hey don't let ever facts bother your story.

Robert is so much more physically gifted than either of those three QBs and there is only one comparison. Both hee and Ryp through beautiful deep balls. I think Mark was a little better at it, but that is hard to tell. Mark was throwing behind the hogs to the posse. Our OL and WRs pale in comparison to what Mark had to work with.

1. Sammy Baugh (won 2 NFL Championships and appeared in two more) Inducted into the first Hall of Fame class and voted the greatest player during the first 50 years of the NFL.

2. Sonny Jurgensen. His teams never won, but not due to his efforts. He was the greatest quarterback of his era.

3. Joe Theismann. One of the best quarterbacks of his era, and won a Super Bowl.

4. RGIII. The level of his play is off the charts, even though it's only been one year.

5. Mark Rypien. Super Bowl MVP and quarterbacked the greatest team in Redskins history.

6. Doug Williams. Super Bowl MVP.

7. Eddie Lebarron. Good quarterback on a poor team in the 50's.

8. Billy Kilmer. Wasn't a great quarterback, but had heart.

I did not see slinging sammy and sonny play, Jay schroeder has no place on any list other than at the bottom below shane mathews, and how anyone has the sex cannon ranked over jason campbell, even taking into account the unreal amount of hatred for him, is crazy.

Eventually I'm going to get around to ranking these QBs based on some semi-logical basis, however, on the strength of just one night, one game etched into my childhood memory, I guarantee you that Douglass Lee Williams will be far higher than anyone else has got him and, probably, than he has a right to be (maybe).

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2162 ... r-bowl-win

I still remember this as if it happened yesterday.

Also, Jay Schroeder.

emoses14 wrote:I did not see slinging sammy and sonny play, Jay schroeder has no place on any list other than at the bottom below shane mathews, and how anyone has the sex cannon ranked over jason campbell, even taking into account the unreal amount of hatred for him, is crazy.

Eventually I'm going to get around to ranking these QBs based on some semi-logical basis, however, on the strength of just one night, one game etched into my childhood memory, I guarantee you that Douglass Lee Williams will be far higher than anyone else has got him and, probably, than he has a right to be (maybe).

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/2162 ... r-bowl-win

I still remember this as if it happened yesterday.

Also, Jay Schroeder.

I'd rate Doug Williams pretty high, as well. So did Joe Gibbs...as best I remember, Williams was making $450K, and "people" (mean Jack Kent Cooke) thought that was too high for a backup QB, especially since Schroeder was the rising star of the '85 and '86 seasons. Considered right up with Marino and Elway and the other young QB's. (Jim Kelley?).

Ah, Jay...what happened?

I rate Jay very highly. He brought us Jim Lachey.

welch wrote:
I'd rate Doug Williams pretty high, as well. So did Joe Gibbs...as best I remember, Williams was making $450K, and "people" (mean Jack Kent Cooke) thought that was too high for a backup QB, especially since Schroeder was the rising star of the '85 and '86 seasons. Considered right up with Marino and Elway and the other young QB's. (Jim Kelley?).

Ah, Jay...what happened?

Sometimes, the arrogant actually get what they deserve...

Countertrey wrote:

welch wrote:
I'd rate Doug Williams pretty high, as well. So did Joe Gibbs...as best I remember, Williams was making $450K, and "people" (mean Jack Kent Cooke) thought that was too high for a backup QB, especially since Schroeder was the rising star of the '85 and '86 seasons. Considered right up with Marino and Elway and the other young QB's. (Jim Kelley?).

Ah, Jay...what happened?

Sometimes, the arrogant actually get what they deserve...

I remember Jay's comment before the Wind Bowl NFC Championship at Giants Stadium: the wind is no problem...just keep the nose of the ball down...